List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[PREETY_FLY]

I heard that. Still waiting for your club to say the same thing though.

There are talks happening, it might be unlikely this year, but the fact they are having conversations means it's not off the table.

may as well be.... because nothing its going to happen this year. His manager said it... Matty Lloyd said it and he is pretty close to the family and likes to take pot shots at the suns when ever he can.. St Kilda couldn't event entertain an offer this season that would interest the suns.. what's stopping the suns from entertaining an offer that might interest the suns to get Max King up here?

 

[bird_man]

may as well be.... because nothing its going to happen this year. His manager said it... Matty Lloyd said it and he is pretty close to the family and likes to take pot shots at the suns when ever he can.. St Kilda couldn't event entertain an offer this season that would interest the suns.. what's stopping the suns from entertaining an offer that might interest the suns to get Max King up here?

Nothing is stopping the Suns. Very long shot but why not try?

As I said, they are having discussions, so clearly the Suns think there is a chance the Saints could entertain the offer.

 

[TheSunGod]

Can't believe we turned Steven May and Kade Kolodjashnij into Ben King last year - what a win on so many levels.

But but the Weller trade!!!

 

[The Matador]

A little bit harsh. He might not be a troll. For all we know he is a 12 year old kid who supports SUNS and his parents are hardcore Crows fans that he lives with in Brisbane, hence a strong lean towards an Adelaide bias. As I said we know what we know now, he has been warned. How he takes it is up to him

I'm not a troll, I don't live with my parents and I'm not a 12 year old kid. I live with a bunch of mates I play footy with and have followed the Suns since inception. I got chased off this board once by moderators. Came back as it seems to be the best place for the inside word on what is really happening.

 

[SUNS]

I'm not a troll, I don't live with my parents and I'm not a 12 year old kid. I live with a bunch of mates I play footy with and have followed the Suns since inception. I got chased off this board once by moderators. Came back as it seems to be the best place for the inside word on what is really happening.

Good story and I wish you all the best with your posting. Just be warned your posts were borderline troll-worthy before we checked you out. Afterwards, well alarm bells are ringing.

By all mean, please post. Just be smart and careful

 

[TheSunGod]

Nothing is stopping the Suns. Very long shot but why not try?

As I said, they are having discussions, so clearly the Suns think there is a chance the Saints could entertain the offer.

This sounds like the Swallow brothers all over again, and we all know how that turned out

 

[SUNS]

This sounds like the Swallow brothers all over again, and we all know how that turned out

Are you implying that Max King is beyond the top level of the game and is coming up in a coaching role

 

[TheSunGod]

Are you implying that Max King is beyond the top level of the game and is coming up in a coaching role

He might be good enough for our NEAFL team.

 

[The Matador]

Good story and I wish you all the best with your posting. Just be warned your posts were borderline troll-worthy before we checked you out. Afterwards, well alarm bells are ringing.

By all mean, please post. Just be smart and careful

Ok cool. I don't know why so many people didn't like my posts. A few got it. Adding A grade midfielders should be our priority imo. It gives us a lot more chance of retaining the elite talent already here or on it's way here. A forever banged up Swallow and a forever banged up Miller is just not enough grunt or class. Weve got collateral, lets do something with it.

 

[Sun Stormer]

Ok cool. I don't know why so many people didn't like my posts. A few got it. Adding A grade midfielders should be our priority imo. It gives us a lot more chance of retaining the elite talent already here or on it's way here. A forever banged up Swallow and a forever banged up Miller is just not enough grunt or class. Weve got collateral, lets do something with it.

Totally with you. Mid field has been a major cluster f.... for years and it looks like we might be doing something about it at last. Keep up the posts and like Toby Greene - live on the edge. It's a better place to be.

 

[thurls64]

its very cool that Ellis and Greenwood have publicly declared early and we have that clear air to get those deals done. The Crouch deal I think we would be better off going with Isaac Smith for a 3 year deal wouldn't we sounds like the farm needs to be sold for the Crouch brother (s)

If we got Rowell and Anderson which has to be done, Greenwood and Ellis and Smith plus some top ups we would have to declare that a step change in our future

The Rowell and Anderson play has to improve our chances of keeping King and Lukosious and I imagine Greenwood can keep reminding Jack how toxic it is back in SA

 

[The Matador]

its very cool that Ellis and Greenwood have publicly declared early and we have that clear air to get those deals done. The Crouch deal I think we would be better off going with Isaac Smith for a 3 year deal wouldn't we sounds like the farm needs to be sold for the Crouch brother (s)

If we got Rowell and Anderson which has to be done, Greenwood and Ellis and Smith plus some top ups we would have to declare that a step change in our future

The Rowell and Anderson play has to improve our chances of keeping King and Lukosious and I imagine Greenwood can keep reminding Jack how toxic it is back in SA

Isaac Smith turning 31 though. I think 3 years for these types is us being taken advantage of to an extent for these guys to extend their careers on more money than they would get elsewhere. Sure there's the hawthorn IP, the flag experience and all that, but surely if possible we go harder for guys that are mid 20s now and will still be playing very good footy in a 3 or 4 years time, when our younger guys will really be making a name for themselves.

 

[Camsta]

Anderson declares loyalty as move to Suns with Rowell beckons

Potential No.1 draft pick Matt Rowell says life on the Gold Coast would be easier if school and club teammate Noah Anderson joined him via next month’s draft.

amp.theage.com.au

Good little interview with Anderson

I particularity like this bit

“He stopped short of declaring he would stay on the Gold Coast long-term if drafted by the Suns, but said he'd received positive feedback from King about the club.”

 

[AFLQLD]

I really think that Cameron and Dew will be going into this trade period with a long term plan to build more like GWS did - get the mix right and draft the highest quality and trade for experience and need.

In that regard I would think 1 or 2 Crouches would only be worth it if the price was right and I don’t think the price would be right unless the Crows are having an absolute fire sale. I think pick 1 and 2 should definitely be taken to the draft (unless you are getting Cripps and Fyfe out of it). Don’t squander it on shorter term solutions. Play the long game.

I hope your trade/draft team back themselves in and build a list to challenge in 2023, although it could be sooner than that.

 

[PREETY_FLY]

So apparently ... hawks want pick 2.... keep dreaming

 

[Iva Bigun]

Ok Darkwing Duck can’t be a real thing.....

It’s like a unicorn just more self righteous and condescending

 

[The Matador]

So apparently ... hawks want pick 2.... keep dreaming

They were always going to want Anderson. What are they giving up for it. Tom Mitchell.

 

[OB11]

From what Cameron said about Crouch I don't think we are frothing at the mouth to get him.

If it does get done it will be in the last 30mins of trade period. We could agree to financial terms with Crouch, offer something like 15 and 20, make that our final offer, make no promises to Crouch and he doesn't have to declare anything to force his way out and the deal either gets done or it doesn't.

Next year he is a free agent so if he is available we have a look at him then.

Just depends on if the Crows take the risk that he doesn't have another injury plagued season and that FA compo goes from 1st Rd to 2nd Rd when he leaves next year.

 

[PREETY_FLY]

They were always going to want Anderson. What are they giving up for it. Tom Mitchell.

Hahah yea. if he was on the table for pick 2 no worries.

 

[The Matador]

From what Cameron said about Crouch I don't think we are frothing at the mouth to get him.

If it does get done it will be in the last 30mins of trade period. We could agree to financial terms with Crouch, offer something like 15 and 20, make that our final offer, make no promises to Crouch and he doesn't have to declare anything to force his way out and the deal either gets done or it doesn't.

Next year he is a free agent so if he is available we have a look at him then.

Just depends on if the Crows take the risk that he doesn't have another injury plagued season and that FA compo goes from 1st Rd to 2nd Rd when he leaves next year.

I disagree in the fact that we need really good players, midfielders especially, right now. If not Brad, which other genuinely good midfielders can we get. We dont need to win trades. Weve just been handed a bunch of trade and draft collateral. We should be spending it imo. Now. If we don't, we may never break the cycle of losing elite youngsters and having a revolving door of players who are barely AFL standard trying to extend their career with us.

 

[abcde12345]

Ok cool. I don't know why so many people didn't like my posts. A few got it. Adding A grade midfielders should be our priority imo. It gives us a lot more chance of retaining the elite talent already here or on it's way here. A forever banged up Swallow and a forever banged up Miller is just not enough grunt or class. Weve got collateral, lets do something with it.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't agree with the trade you outlined earlier.

The issue I see with all the Crouch talk is the team balance factor.

There are two main types of stoppage extractors. There are the "big-bodied", explosive midfielders (Cripps, Fyfe), and there are the slower, smaller types (Neale is a great example). The bigger bodied midfielders are obviously very much in favour at the moment, and this is particularly because of their versatility.

The bigger bodied mids tend to have the ability to rest forward more easily, as they are typically better marks. This contrasts with the smaller bodied midfielder, who doesn't have the height advantage for marking, and typically stays as a permanent on-baller.

Additionally, the bigger bodied midfielders tend to be able to not only win the ball, but clear the stoppage themselves. It's why players like Fyfe can catch the eye so much. Meanwhile, the smaller bodied midfielders tend to win the ball and feed it off to a player with that speed to clear the pack. It's why Neale can end up with 30 disposals despite not noticing him that much. Without that quick player to feed the ball off to, these players can have very little influence on the game, even with a big impact in terms of stats.

Now there are obviously some big boddied plodders who can't do anything except win the ball, and there are some smaller inside mids who are good above their head, lightning quick and can break clear of the pack. But I think for the most part, the types hold relatively well.

The Crouch brothers perfectly typify the smaller bodied mid that I outlined above (especially Matt). They don't have the height, weight or speed to "break the game open". They are very one-dimensional - but are very good at that aspect (much like Neale).

The fear I see with taking on two Crouch brothers is that the Suns have these smaller and medium sized midfielders in spades, but lack more of this outside pace and disposal. Sure, they might come on, push two players out of the side, and be your "two best" midfielders, but I don't think it really addresses the root of the problems the Suns have, and I don't think it will lead to a material change in the performance of the team.

We all saw the danger this year of becoming too one-dimensional with too many of these kinds of players. Just look at the performance of Adelaide. Coaches go into a game knowing that Crouch, Crouch and Sloane are going to be playing most of the game on the ball. The only other place these players can move is onto the bench. How does a coach adapt his game-plan when all his mids can do is sit on the ball? What's more, opposition coaches know their defensive line will have time to set up, as the ball will come in relatively slow or hurried - they don't have that speed to break through zones, nor the elite disposal to create opportunities.

Contrast this with Richmond. Martin provides exactly what I'm talking about. He has that speed and body strength. It allows him to completely break open a stoppage and create opportunities on his own. Look at round 23 against the Lions. He completely tore the game open with body strength and elite disposal. If things start going poorly, or if Dusty needs a rest, Richmond can choose to move him forward. This completely changes the game for the opposition coach, and can lead to chaos.

I can see the benefit in getting Brad Crouch to the Suns. He's a gun player and would be a good upgrade forcing out the last inside mid in the 22. Same argument goes for Matt. But together and you're risking building yourselves into a similar team to what the Crows are now.

Meanwhile, you discussed moving Luko out to make this happen. The thing is, Luko offers a tool that I would argue the Suns lack at the moment in his elite disposal. I think it would be crazy to push Luko out the door in order to double down on a skillset you have in abundance.

B Crouch is gettable, without costing you pick 1, 2 or Luko. A trade like Greenwood and Crouch for 2019 pick 15, 20 and 2020 pick 11 should make that happen. Crows get overs, while you guys maintain the goal of retaining your top picks and Luko. I would consider that a relatively win-win trade. If you can escape without having to use 2019 pick 20, all the better.

Look at players like Isaac Smith as well. Strong outside users who come from successful culture, who won't be too expensive in terms of draft currency and still have years to offer.

Back yourselves to retain Luko and King. Rowell and Anderson might be the circuit breakers. You guys are building a strong culture, and seem to be bringing in some fantastic characters. Get Crouch, keep Luko and King, bring Rowell and Anderson in, and win some games next year. Get out, bring your friends along, and support the guys through the transition, and make it impossible for them to refuse. This is the best possible opportunity to keep a player like Luko, with the Crows imploding and Port having some off-field financial issues, so back yourselves.

 

[Sunny_]

I'm not convinced we must get Crouch either. If we do then great, but we obviously aren't parting with pick 1 or 2 for a guy that has only played one full season of footy. Our inside mids are ok. It's the outside layer that needs serious work. For that reason I'd be ok bringing in Smith.

 

[OB11]

I disagree in the fact that we need really good players, midfielders especially, right now. If not Brad, which other genuinely good midfielders can we get. We dont need to win trades. Weve just been handed a bunch of trade and draft collateral. We should be spending it imo. Now. If we don't, we may never break the cycle of losing elite youngsters and having a revolving door of players who are barely AFL standard trying to extend their career with us.

I disagree with you that we sell the farm to get Crouch.

Sun's don't need to win the trade but they need to stop getting bent over.

You offer up what a Melbourne club would offer up for him not the Lachie Weller special.

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

HELLO

It’s a total start up again. Draft top end talent the first 2 years and have them on minimum standard wages.
To draw good talent we needed to do something different and that’s clear the salary cap deck for 2020 and offer heavy front ended deals. The cap space is now and Cameron will fill it with quality.

 

[The Matador]

I disagree with you that we sell the farm to get Crouch.

Sun's don't need to win the trade but they need to stop getting bent over.

You offer up what a Melbourne club would offer up for him not the Lachie Weller special.

I was only keen to sell the farm for both Crouch's. Adding Brad and Greenwood is not enough imo. Focusing on winning trades is what Carlton do. And look at how that has worked for them. They are a joke and have been for 20 years. We are headed down that path unless things change. As I already said weve been given a great draft advantage that we should use this year. If opportunity presents you get the deal done. Everyone thought Brisbane paid huge overs for Charlie Cameron at the time. Now in hindsight it's serious unders.