Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[TerryWallet]

My 2c

Betts - Tick. Great cost. Good result.

Pittonet - Tick. Haven't seen enough of him to comment. He's younger than Phillips but ready. Seems slightly higher rated than Philipps.

Martin - Too early to judge. If we get him in the PSD it is a huge win. If we don't get him in the PSD and we just didn't budge a little today then it is a bad loss. If GC were being hardass to somehow make a point, then not much we could do.

Papley - If Pick 9 would have got it done and we didn't offer it then that imo is a bad mistake and bloody mindedness not to go the extra half a yard. If however he just wasn't for sale in the end, then nothing we could do.

My best understanding so far:

Martin - GC wanted 9 and 2020 2nd for 15 and Martin in the end. That's not a horrible deal but it's also not a good deal if SOS is confident he can get Martin in PSD. If SOS was confident on that, id have told them to stick it too. PSD is a big win, and realistic.

Papley - My best reading is that SOS never offered Pick 9 straight up for Papley, which i find quite staggering considering all the circs. Now i have no read whether that 9 would have been enough, but i can't believe it wasn't offered...if true. And SOS answered a direct query to him with wtte "it was part of the deal".

2c

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Making it difficult to move isn't necessarily a bad thing. This trade period especially puts the league on notice, might make clubs and players think and be more careful when offering and signing contracts. It's better than having a free for all circus carousel like the rubbish NBA model where players change teams like they change their t shirts. That + salary cap is what is preserving our game from losing its tradition and becoming a Moneyball. Playing for the jumper will become a thing of the past otherwise.

are you leaving now?

 

[Newton Blues]

We get Martin and keep Marchbank. I’m somewhat happy.. Papley does hurt though

 

[ParapMarkets]

I'm under the impression we were shopping your 9 with our 25 heading your way. Which means we were probably low balling Essendon because we weren't happy with giving up 25 for papley. I think 9 outright would have made us more willing to deal further with Essendon. Pick 5+papley+25 for Daniher was just not feasible. Hence why we were trying to broker a lesser deal with Essendon which never eventuated. If we got to keep our 25, I think we would have been happy to offer 9+5 to them.

Yes, we get it. It’s Carlton’s fault you low-balled Essendon. Piss off!
Your “impressions” and gut feels are Sydney were awesome and that it was Carlton’s low-balling that caused the whole thing.

Listen to your list manager. He said 100% the same thing re: Papley as what Dodo said re: Daniher. If you want to ignore those words spoken by your own recruiter and lay blame on Carlton for your inability to trade for Daniher go and do it on your own board.

Essendon weren’t trading Daniher without taking you to the cleaners. Once that was a formality, that was your exact position with Papley. They were both contracted players and that is the clubs rights to hold on to them. We all move on. Just take your bullshit off this board.

 

[JustaBattler]

Making it difficult to move isn't necessarily a bad thing. This trade period especially puts the league on notice, might make clubs and players think and be more careful when offering and signing contracts. It's better than having a free for all circus carousel like the rubbish NBA model where players change teams like they change their t shirts. That + salary cap is what is preserving our game from losing its tradition and becoming a Moneyball. Playing for the jumper will become a thing of the past otherwise.

Valid arguments if the AFL wasn't so biased in its preference to support its own phony invented Clubs - there is no precedent in recent times for an uncontracted player like Martin to have a fair bid rejected by Suns is there? They let a top 10 pick in Ah Chee go to Brisbane for peanuts, let their two Captains go without a whimper last year...it kinda smells a little off from Carlton's perspective - especially since they've just been handed all the picks required to build a dynasty (again) whilst Carlton got snookered on Coniglio by AFL intervention ....

Naah I'm all for Clubs being able to trade contracted players and uncontracted players to go wherever they like- much better than the current BS make it up as you go system that the AFL run now.

 

[Gethelred]

TBH pick 9 for Martin and Pick 15 was a pretty decent offer.

You're funny.

 

[carlton2dabone]

Not sure if we did. Could've held off on Daniher because we were trying to get a deal off you guys first for all we know. Even if that were the case, SOS should've issued a time frame which if not met, meant you guys move to plan B and focus on Martin and maybe a butler. Would've hastened our decision making aswell since the 9 could've been so instrumental. SOS put all his eggs in one basket and got burnt. If papley didn't eventuate, butler should've always been next priority imo.

SOS clearly figured that if GC wouldn’t accept our reasonable offer for Martin, that we’d wait and pick him up for nothing in the PSD so there was no need to even contemplate using our pick 9 in any way to get him.

Sydney including our pick 9 in the offer for Daniher tells you all you need to know, the swans kept us on the hook and waiting all the way until 10min from the deadline.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

You're funny.

And our second round in 2020!

 

[ParapMarkets]

My 2c

Betts - Tick. Great cost. Good result.

Pittonet - Tick. Haven't seen enough of him to comment. He's younger than Phillips but ready. Seems slightly higher rated than Philipps.

Martin - Too early to judge. If we get him in the PSD it is a huge win. If we don't get him in the PSD and we just didn't budge a little today then it is a bad loss. If GC were being hardass to somehow make a point, then not much we could do.

Papley - If Pick 9 would have got it done and we didn't offer it then that imo is a bad mistake and bloody mindedness not to go the extra half a yard. If however he just wasn't for sale in the end, then nothing we could do.

My best understanding so far:

Martin - GC wanted 9 and 2020 2nd for 15 and Martin in the end. That's not a horrible deal but it's also not a good deal if SOS is confident he can get Martin in PSD. If SOS was confident on that, id have told them to stick it too. PSD is a big win, and realistic.

Papley - My best reading is that SOS never offered Pick 9 straight up for Papley, which i find quite staggering considering all the circs. Now i have no read whether that 9 would have been enough, but i can't believe it wasn't offered...if true. And SOS answered a direct query to him with wtte "it was part of the deal".

2c

I agree about Papley. If we did in fact not offer pick 9 outright then that was a mistake.

 

[Red Bull]

I agree about Papley. If we did in fact not offer pick 9 outright then that was a mistake.

An unforgivable mistake ...

 

[carlton2dabone]

Stevens said he'd have no problem going to us though, and came to terms with us immediately after the trade fell through.

Martin nominated us, could have let GC broker a better back up deal with Melbourne or any other club once GC let it be known they wanted more than we were offering, but they didn’t happen.

So it’s not unrealistic to think that Marin still wasn’t to come to us allowing Carlton and Martin to work out a deal where we offer him 1.8mil for a 2 year contract at the PSD and pricing out both GC and Melbourne, and then extend that contract after one year at 300k a year, effectively making a 4 year contract at 600k a year.

Definitely a strong possibility of this happening.

 

[Stamos]

Could someone please clarify does an OOC player automatically become a DFA after 31 October up until the 2019 Draft?

No, only if the club delists the player. If the player is offered a contract, then they can delist themselves and go to the draft, or the PSD

 

[Gavstar]

I agree about Papley. If we did in fact not offer pick 9 outright then that was a mistake.

ITK said Sydney wanted more than just pick 9, so by itself it was inadequate in the absence of the Daniher trade.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Hypothetically, if the AFL shafted us again which is likely, and somehow intervened with Martin nominating for the PSD forcing him into the ND, would we consider taking him at pick #9...or just let him slip to the second round for a team like Geelong or Hawthorn to snap up?

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Hypothetically, if the AFL shafted us again which is likely, and somehow intervened with Martin nominating for the PSD forcing him into the ND, would we consider taking him at pick #9...or just let him slip to the second round for a team like Geelong or Hawthorn to snap up?

Hypothetically we might pick swap and beat them to the punch.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Hypothetically, if the AFL shafted us again which is likely, and somehow intervened with Martin nominating for the PSD forcing him into the ND, would we consider taking him at pick #9...or just let him slip to the second round for a team like Geelong or Hawthorn to snap up?

That would mean paying more for him than Gold Coast asked for. Would be foolish IMO.

 

[ParapMarkets]

1. SOS allowed himself and Carlton to get locked into waiting for an Essendon Sydney deal - whereby they got to play with and consider our pick#9 as their own option - for the whole trade period.
2. GC sees the Papley deal fall over and decide that they can do a deal for Carltons #9 - this was a perfectly 'rational' move by GCS - if they hadn't tried it - it would be a mark against their list management.

Both combined facts point to a failure of basic preparedness in the process. If you have to wait till 30 minutes before a trade period ends to see what eventuates -you are just gambling. This has now occurred 2 years in a row - last year we were waiting for Shiel to make up his mind - interestingly, on both occasions SOS's 'mate' Dodoro had the last say. Not a smart way to organise oneself I would have thought.
Nothing that "itk" posters have to say about Sydney or Essendon changing 'agreements' means anything - if you allow yourself to be hostage you will treated like a hostage. I also don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the AFL in gifting Suns their picks also asked them to flex muscle at Carlton by being unreasonable about Martin - they saw a pick9 up for negotiation - and went for it.

It is easy for people to suggest after the fact that Papley and Martin were the only players that Carlton were interested in.....

If that is the case- then it shows a lack of imagination on the part of List management - no, I think all that happened was that SOS was suckered by Sydney and Essendon and then to compound the insult - slapped hard by Suns.

This after the fact that SOS helped Sydney with pick swaps AND broke a 16 yr moratorium in dealing with Essendon on Phillips - including an exchange of picks.

Not a good look and explains his ashen faced expression come end of trade period.

This supporter doesn't need to gild the lily in supporting Carlton - as far as achieving objective of securing a top quality specialist small forward ( on top of Eddie) the trade period was a fail.

As for Martin it seems that SOS (at least) has plans for getting him outside of normal trade period - good luck with that - I hope we do.

No doubt SOS and co have learned some hard lessons - and perhaps we might feel confident that they will be put into practise going forward - secure agreement or move on.

Some of this I agree with and some I don’t. I can’t believe that Carlton wouldn’t have been having intense discussions with GC all along. Papley not happening was always a realistic possibility.

GC’s stance right from the outset was to have either our future first or pick 9, they said that all the way through. Sure, maybe their focus shifted from 2020 first to pick 9 once Papley was becoming less likely, but from everything said by Cameron all along he was adamant of having one of our first rounders right the way through. This wasn’t some sudden shift at the end of trade period where he went for the jugular.

His words after trade period were telling. He just boasted about how great their draft hand was and that they were only interested in the highest of picks.

I’m not sure what he could’ve done without using a First for Martin. Maybe try and package a future second with the 2 picks in the forties for a good enough pick?

Edit: We could’ve split pick 9 I guess, but it’s hard to know what GC would’ve accepted. If we split pick 9, they would have demanded the highest pick leaving us with a pick in the twenties or something. It’s a tough price for someone who has produced what Martin has.

 

[carlton2dabone]

Hypothetically, if the AFL shafted us again which is likely, and somehow intervened with Martin nominating for the PSD forcing him into the ND, would we consider taking him at pick #9...or just let him slip to the second round for a team like Geelong or Hawthorn to snap up?

Why would we use pick 9 in the draft to get him when we could have just given GC pick 9 today and got him?

Doesn’t make sense we’d do something like that in the draft even if the AFL intervene which I can’t see how they possibly could. It’s Martins choice where he nominees.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

That would mean paying more for him than Gold Coast asked for. Would be foolish IMO.

I assume that he could do a 'Luke Ball', and place a massive price tag on his head that would deter other clubs from picking him in the ND, in order for the Blues to grab him in a later pick.

 

[thylacine60]

believe who you want - your choice - but shit-canning itk posters will get you nowhere around here.............

 

[chuncey]

If Carlton get Jack Martin in the PSD, the AFL should tell GCS "sorry, no more draft concessions for you. You just pissed 2 futures up against the wall".

But I'm sure they wont.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Edddddddddddieeeee’s backkk

 

[mediumsizered]

Good to see Mrs Eddie Betts is back. MEB did her best to fill the breach, but she was no Mrs Eddie Betts.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Good to see Mrs Eddie Betts is back. MEB did her best to fill the breach, but she was no Mrs Eddie Betts.

I feel like myself again

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Some of this I agree with and some I don’t. I can’t believe that Carlton wouldn’t have been having intense discussions with GC all along. Papley not happening was always a realistic possibility.

GC’s stance right from the outset was to have either our future first or pick 9, they said that all the way through. Sure, maybe their focus shifted from 2020 first to pick 9 once Papley was becoming less likely, but from everything said by Cameron all along he was adamant of having one of our first rounders right the way through. This wasn’t some sudden shift at the end of trade period where he went for the jugular.

His words after trade period were telling. He just boasted about how great their draft hand was and that they were only interested in the highest of picks.

I’m not sure what he could’ve done without using a First for Martin. Maybe try and package a future second with the 2 picks in the forties for a good enough pick?

Pick 9 for the likes of Jack Martin is a BS deal, whether it's as a trade or in the ND.
Out of contract, for starters.
Never realised his potential and as conditional as they come as has been reported. Dropped to the NEAFL. By the worst team in the league, ffs. Says a bit.
And they want a top 10 pick? That's like the Hyundai dealer charging an extra 10k just because you have more money...