Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[jd2010]

I am still getting a handle of how things work. Some players are off contract and can leave as FA’s. Other players are uncontracted and have to be traded for.

AFL contracts really are confusing.

7 years with a club I think is the qualifier

 

[zeggie]

If Gold Coast have any self respect, or decency, they'll just delist Martin now so he can go to the club of his choosing as a DFA.

They're getting nothing now. That ship has sailed. They've made it impossible for him to leave for 2 years.

There is no chance GCS redraft him. They may give empty threats to do so, but that'll just reflect even more poorly on them and AFLPA would intervene.

 

[Omega Blue]

Just remember all our itk posters, new the landscape and graciously informed us on what they could.
Just because it didn't happen doesn't make the information any less real.
Once again if you want facts wait till after the event, if you want an indication of what's going on tune in, but don't get snippy when the landscape changes.

 

[Accidental genius]

I reckon sos is too hard when it comes to trades. He needs to ease up a little...so what if we pay slight overs in some cases. We were hanging it on saints but somehow they managed to get so many trades done. It’s been mentioned here a lot that we have money to burn and still struggle to get high quality players in. MM was a good get but not too many others to speak of.

 

[T2B_]

Just remember all our itk posters, new the landscape and graciously informed us on what they could.
Just because it didn't happen doesn't make the information any less real.
Once again if you want facts wait till after the event, if you want an indication of what's going on tune in, but don't get snippy when the landscape changes.

Well OR said it himself, things were agreed upon, then reneged basically.

No doubt the club was genuinely excited themselves with developments and agreements, and the ITKs info reflected that. But until anything is official, you can't guarantee anything. SOS and co would be just as disappointed as any of us. Thought SOS' presser sorta showed that too.

 

[Omega Blue]

Was also frustrating to hear the media suggest that Phillips left us because we got pittonet. Pretty sure we got pittonet because Phillips sought a trade to essendon after meeting with them 2wks ago.

 

[RPCB]

Not an easy thing to do to put your reputation as a poster on the line. Right or wrong, you have to respect and understand that things change constantly during negotiations and what may be factual on Wednesday at 3:05pm may be false at 3:07pm.

Hats off to the ones willing to put the info they have out there.

I would hate to think our ITK are reading these posts and say “stuff it, I am done”. But given they will probably only post information and not read BF (Barass has less than 600 posts in 11 years as a registered member), I am willing to bet they don’t read much of what goes on in here. Probably for their own good tbh.

Negoations are never black and white. Teams put out their own fake rumours that ITK’s/football journalist gather through their sources. If something is wrong, be sure that the club has given false information. Part of the business.

7 years with a club I think is the qualifier

Thanks man.

Pretty much standard sporting contract to any other overseas code.

 

[Zlatan]

If we get Martin effectively for free and pick a gun at 9, is it still a disaster?

 

[RPCB]

Was also frustrating to hear the media suggest that Phillips left us because we got pittonet. Pretty sure we got pittonet because Phillips sought a trade to essendon after meeting with them 2wks ago.

“Carlton are the bad guys” is a better story to print.

 

[RPCB]

If we get Martin effectively for free and pick a gun at 9, is it still a disaster?

No.

I would have loved Papley this year but if we come away with Betts, Pittonet and Martin, I’d have no problem.

 

[jd2010]

SOS has a great way of looking unlucky when we miss out

Shiel - play finals
Coniglio - happy at his club
Papley - 3 year trigger clause
Martin - goal posts moved on the final day

This doesn't seem to happen to sides like Geelong or Hawthorn

 

[Meddy43]

Man it’s shitting me the amount of people potting SOS for not getting Papley. Swans tried to get the deal done but Dickhead DODO would rather keep a guy desperate to get out of Melbourne. It’s been clearly stated over and over that Swans weren’t losing Papley without gaining Daniher.
I’ve had a big rant to my Essendon supporting co-worker and he’s pissed off that Daniher didn’t get traded.

I’m 50 pages behind so this may have been covered but once the Daniher deal was off did we approach Port? Or were we really not that interested in Wines? Or perhaps by 7pm it was too late?

I appreciate all the ITKs that have posted over the last few months and longer. As they have said the whole time, things change. I’d personally rather get bit of info and for it not to pan out than nothing at all.

Bring on the PSD!!

 

[Red Bull]

If we were to get official confirmation that 9 on its own was offered and refused for Papley the matter could be put to rest and we live with the fact that we offered a very fair deal and even overs in some estimations.
Unfortunately Silvagni’s comments last night far from confirmed this to be the case.
As far as Martin goes, just use all our salary cap strength to walk him through the PSD for nothing.

 

[smashbox gill]

Mods can we ban people who attack the ITK. Things change and nothing is concrete. I’m not sure why people don’t understand that.

What they said was consistent with the feeling throughout the industry. They have proven themselves time and time again.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Last night was the biggest tantrum I’ve seen in my 10+ years of big footy

“I want a new toy now!!”


Net in
Betts
Pinoett

Net out
Future 4th
Philips

If we get Martin for free then we go from slight improvement to massive improvement

 

[LegendaryBlues]

Man it’s shitting me the amount of people potting SOS for not getting Papley. Swans tried to get the deal done but Dickhead DODO would rather keep a guy desperate to get out of Melbourne. It’s been clearly stated over and over that Swans weren’t losing Papley without gaining Daniher.
I’ve had a big rant to my Essendon supporting co-worker and he’s pi**ed off that Daniher didn’t get traded.

I’m 50 pages behind so this may have been covered but once the Daniher deal was off did we approach Port? Or were we really not that interested in Wines? Or perhaps by 7pm it was too late?

I appreciate all the ITKs that have posted over the last few months and longer. As they have said the whole time, things change. I’d personally rather get bit of info and for it not to pan out than nothing at all.

Bring on the PSD!!

Wasnt the original reason we didnt persue wines further was the asking price too high? Most likely 9 and FF with something coming back

 

[myblueroan]

Good morning brethren.
Slightly hung over but...

 

[Bostonian]

If we get Martin effectively for free and pick a gun at 9, is it still a disaster?

I love how all of a sudden a pick almost everyone was happy to move on without hesitation in what everyone is calling a very average draft year is now all of a sudden getting us a gun player.

Have seen the word "gun" used several times now.

It's still the bog average pick it was when everyone wanted to trade it away.

 

[Magruder]

1. SOS allowed himself and Carlton to get locked into waiting for an Essendon Sydney deal - whereby they got to play with and consider our pick#9 as their own option - for the whole trade period.
2. GC sees the Papley deal fall over and decide that they can do a deal for Carltons #9 - this was a perfectly 'rational' move by GCS - if they hadn't tried it - it would be a mark against their list management.

Both combined facts point to a failure of basic preparedness in the process. If you have to wait till 30 minutes before a trade period ends to see what eventuates -you are just gambling. This has now occurred 2 years in a row - last year we were waiting for Shiel to make up his mind - interestingly, on both occasions SOS's 'mate' Dodoro had the last say. Not a smart way to organise oneself I would have thought.

Nothing that "itk" posters have to say about Sydney or Essendon changing 'agreements' means anything - if you allow yourself to be hostage you will treated like a hostage. I also don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the AFL in gifting Suns their picks also asked them to flex muscle at Carlton by being unreasonable about Martin - they saw a pick9 up for negotiation - and went for it.

It is easy for people to suggest after the fact that Papley and Martin were the only players that Carlton were interested in.....

If that is the case- then it shows a lack of imagination on the part of List management - no, I think all that happened was that SOS was suckered by Sydney and Essendon and then to compound the insult - slapped hard by Suns.

This after the fact that SOS helped Sydney with pick swaps AND broke a 16 yr moratorium in dealing with Essendon on Phillips - including an exchange of picks.

Not a good look and explains his ashen faced expression come end of trade period.

This supporter doesn't need to gild the lily in supporting Carlton - as far as achieving objective of securing a top quality specialist small forward ( on top of Eddie) the trade period was a fail.

As for Martin it seems that SOS (at least) has plans for getting him outside of normal trade period - good luck with that - I hope we do.

No doubt SOS and co have learned some hard lessons - and perhaps we might feel confident that they will be put into practise going forward - secure agreement or move on.

the only issue I have with your post is the use of fail as a noun- and that’s because i’m an old fart stickler.

absolutely how I read the events of the last few days.

A time limited offer to Sydney was the way to play this. As you state, we allowed Sydney to attempt to leverage our capital without any attendant risk.

 

[Stamos]

We might well get Martin "free", but will pay the price when trying to get our preferred uncontracted players to nominate us at the end of 2020... any player with half a brain would be gun-shy, after last night.

How so?
Surely players don’t expect their new club to massively overpay and weaken themselves in order to bring them in.

I’d hazard a guess that both Papley and Martin are more disappointed in their clubs than they are in Carlton

 

[Gavstar]

Listening to SEN Watson was patronizing the hell out of us.

Didn’t ask SOS any of the hard questions.

SOS is excited about taking Pick 9 to the draft......

 

[I bleed Blue]

SOS has a great way of looking unlucky when we miss out

Shiel - play finals
Coniglio - happy at his club
Papley - 3 year trigger clause
Martin - goal posts moved on the final day

This doesn't seem to happen to sides like Geelong or Hawthorn

Hawks chased and missed Sheil and Cogs too?

You debunked your own argument in the same post

 

[Wily trout]

So is everyone over there little tanty's now... finished tossing the toys out of the pram?

Good... SOS has responded well to what was basically an attempted strong arm effort from GC17, and by extension the AFL, to hand over another top 10 pick to good old Gold Coast.

SOS offered up a number of good deals to GC17, who was apparently under instructions from the AFL to be harder at the negotiating table. But it helps to be tough at the negotiating table when you are in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they were trying to be tough negotiators from a position of weakness. Martin is uncontracted and will now be pi**ed off with GC17 because of the stupid stance that they took... especially after trading Ah Chee for two 2020 picks... I'm sure you all know which rounds they are in. SOS looked at their final offer and told them to pound sand before walking out of the room laughing at their weak efforts.

Mind you, he came across as a bit perturbed with both GC17's list manager and that stupid twat from * who basically wasted the whole trade period for us and pretty much for Shitney. Mind you, he did screw Dodoro over when he got pick 57 and 70 for Phillips and 61 and 72. Shit, I would have taken pick 70 on it's own for Phillips after doing a Grigg on us.

As for the deal with Shitney for Papley, it was always going to be dependent on the Daniher trade and when that collapsed, Shitney no longer needed pick 9 so the Papley deal died in the arse. What sort of deadshit a-hole wants 2 first round picks for a guy who has hardly got on the field in the last 2 years... oh that's right... it's Dodoro. I'm certain that the guy cooks his own bread at home every day... a bit of a master baker if you will.

Now, I've heard a whole lot of "what about plan B" on Farcebook and on Twitter... we should have taken Butler... or Cutler... why didn't we look at some other small forward? Scak SOS... this has been a failure of a trade period!

Why?

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

There is a reason why all 4 of those guys went for late picks and played bugger all games this year... they are not A grade small forwards.

Eddie had a poor year by his standards... he played 21 games and kicked 37 goals. If we want an experienced depth small forward... we could always pick up Jeffy as a DFA.

Now... I don't know about you lot, but I am actually pretty happy that we walked out of the trade period with a good backup to Kreuzer for bugger all, and we also got back Eddie for 12 months to act as a player/mentor. I'm also happy that GC17 have managed to screw themselves with Martin because he is out of contract and will walk into the PSD and probably as for a 12 month 1.2 million dollar contract. Out of GC17, the Dees and us... Carlton are the only team that can afford that sort of contract. I'm not saying that we would be so crass as to tamper with the PSD and get Martin to screw his old club... but fu** it... they have 4 top 20 picks. If they can't pick up some serious talent with that lot, they need to offer SOS 2 million a year to go to the Gold Coast for 3 years and rebuild their entire list.

Reckon right about now Martin couldn’t give a rats left one about what Gold Coast do or don’t get for him. What we need to remember is not only did they try to shaft SOS, but in doing so they actually did shaft Jack.

 

[Bostonian]

SOS has a great way of looking unlucky when we miss out

Shiel - play finals
Coniglio - happy at his club
Papley - 3 year trigger clause
Martin - goal posts moved on the final day

This doesn't seem to happen to sides like Geelong or Hawthorn

They go after more realistic targets where there are less barriers to overcome.

We could have used a player like Langdon on the wing, just what we needed, yet we were never in the mix.

 

[jd2010]

Hawks chased and missed Sheil and Cogs too?

You debunked your own argument in the same post

But they never looked unlucky in love. They just moved onto their next target quickly