Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[Arr0w]

No GC will be blind as to the fee. He won’t nominate one. Carlton will have indicated a willingness to pay him 1m for one year. That, along with other facts will be taken into account and produce a binding outcome.

GC won’t know what his price or terms are. And therefore won’t draft him.

Another great option paneboy

 

[Ash05]

Last night I was one of the melts. I was pissed with how the night went. Still a bit bemused to be honest. It is reassuring to hear how SOS handled himself last night.
I really hope we do get Martin in the PSD but I will believe it when I see it.
What I don't understand is why when we knew 48 hours out that Essendon weren't dealing Daniher and therefore Sydney not dealing Papley did we continue to hold out hope. We still had 2 days to offer pick 9 and next year's 1st to offer for Wines.
I am still bloody excited about our prospects for next year. Hoping for a good run with injuries and see where this group can go. If we had've got Papley I believe we would have played finals. I still think we are a chance but more likely 10-12

 

[windows1]

Another great option paneboy

All credit to Zeggie for reading a 187 page doc. Impressive commitment. Presumably Martin’s Mgt and the Club Know the clauses too.

I would be absolutely blown away now if he’s not a Blue. Hardship and other factors need be taken into account. Melbourne aren’t going to get involved in this. They will attempt a few professional interactions and them leave it. Gold Coast will let it go. I dare say in this instance they will Be encouraged to. I don’t think the AFL is going tonwant to see arbitration over an indigenous player who just wants to get to another club after 6 years.

It’s over. He’s a Blue.

 

[ChrisKaias]

Not sure that is true, if they have offered him a contract.

Not sure why you think it makes a difference. The next list lodgment is October 31. If clubs delist players then, they are DFA and can be picked up any time before the final list lodgment on December 2.

The only opportunity players have to delist themselves is Monday 11 November when they nominate for the draft, it has that effect.

Gold Coast could delist Martin on October 31 but I can't see why they would at this point. They did do it for Jarryd Lyons but clearly they've gone insane this year.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Well gosh I’ll be damned Zeggie. I’ll be damned son. Good find.

So re-paraphrasing the official AFL draft terms:

- there are two ways Martin can manipulate the PSD to his advantage: (1) nominate a huge price (binds him For two years) OR
- not nominate ANY price, and ‘negotiate’. That can be ONE year. He need make no offer. He is therefore not bound.
- If he deems he is not receiving reasonable pricing (under the second method) he can go to Arbitration.
- the Abitrator must take into consideration all relevant facts. It doesn’t SAY this but presumably an offer from another club is a relevant fact that indicates market value.

As a former number 1 draft pick, with a big offer from Carlton, he will have a strong hand at Arbitration.

Carlton should offer him one year, at 1m. But not make it public. Neither Melbourne nor GC would know what they are getting should they draft him. They’d be drafting him ‘blind’.

It won’t happen. His Mgt will stay strong. The other clubs won’t nominate him.

He’s a Blue. The end.

Great detective work Zeggie.

Let's say Martin opted for the "negotiation" path, when can this begin? Especially, if arbitration is required?
How would they nearly wrap this up on Day2 of draft?
zeggie too?

 

[Benaly28]

Turns out we actually are interested in Jack Newnes.

 

[Blues_1864]

Next years draft is extremely compromised, and we've currently got 6 list spots available. I doubt that is SOS' move.

Which is another justification for splitting 9. Even if we leave a spot vacant for Martin, I doubt Silvagni is keen to use both 70 and 85 this year. Perhaps split 9 this year, use the resulting pair in conjunction with 43 and 57, and either use 70 or pick up a DFA.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Not sure that is true, if they have offered him a contract.

Also, slightly different but Newnes "A restricted free agent entering the off-season, Newnes had previously turned down a two-year offer from the Saints to explore his options on the open market" - he turned down an offer, but still a DFA?

 

[bmaurizio]

Jack Newnes for zero picks and Eddie for that matter are a wise investments very solid contributors add Jack Martin for zilch too and we’ve done pretty well.
A young Ruckman aggressive Reasonable tap for very little, I’ve got no complaints.
In the ND it’s one of Tehany , Flanders or Serong for pick 9.

 

[Lace_Out]

Turns out we actually are interested in Jack Newnes.

123 games straight, gets dropped rd14 then delisted at years end. Makes no sense, even if they are trying to create more cap space.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Stamos]

Which is another justification for splitting 9. Even if we leave a spot vacant for Martin, I doubt Silvagni is keen to use both 70 and 85 this year. Perhaps split 9 this year, use the resulting pair in conjunction with 43 and 57, and either use 70 or pick up a DFA.

Yeah, I’m not saying we won’t split, but I don’t think we’re getting out of the first round of this draft

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

The weird thing for me is why didn’t dodo take 5 and 9 . Player wanted out / injury . Two top ten picks . Baffling .


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Bombers could go on to play in GFs and no one will care.

However, it’s FAR more likely they don’t get anywhere close. It’s going to take a few years but I think Bombers fans will eventually look back on this and think wtf

 

[BlueGum]

Last night I was one of the melts. I was pissed with how the night went. Still a bit bemused to be honest. It is reassuring to hear how SOS handled himself last night.
I really hope we do get Martin in the PSD but I will believe it when I see it.
What I don't understand is why when we knew 48 hours out that Essendon weren't dealing Daniher and therefore Sydney not dealing Papley did we continue to hold out hope. We still had 2 days to offer pick 9 and next year's 1st to offer for Wines.
I am still bloody excited about our prospects for next year. Hoping for a good run with injuries and see where this group can go. If we had've got Papley I believe we would have played finals. I still think we are a chance but more likely 10-12

I'm excited too. Don't see how one player makes us a finalist though. Reckon that will turn on development of the whole list and game plan.

(In the membership survey I said I expected ~6th. Before trades and drafts, and expecting some inconsistency).

Go to it baggers

 

[windows1]

Let's say Martin opted for the "negotiation" path, when can this begin? Especially, if arbitration is required?
How would they nearly wrap this up on Day2 of draft?
zeggie too?

It happens after he’s drafted. AFTeR. I think there’s a period (14 days?) of negotiation and then 21? of arbitration allowed for.

 

[RedFury]

If one of my managers went public with dribble like that it would result in instant dismissal as it would imply my organisation is run by a lunatic that has no business sense or basic management skills. if he strongly believes and feels like he indicates in that article then it should stay inside their boardroom walls. #amatuerhour BIG TIME. The imbecile has brought his club back years in regards to player retention and building a future destination club.

If the AFL is a professionally run organisation regardless of whether they asked them to make a stand or not they should drag him over the coals if not sack him.

Agree. And I'll add that the way a club shows it's strength is by getting players to voluntarily re-commit to the club, not by treating it like a prison where they refuse to allow uncontracted players to leave.

 

[Ash05]

I'm excited too. Don't see how one player makes us a finalist though. Reckon that will turn on development of the whole list and game plan.

(In the membership survey I said I expected ~6th. Before trades and drafts, and expecting some inconsistency).

Go to it baggers

I just feel that Papley offers something we don't have. A hard nut with some mongrel and obviously the small forward that we need. Really hoping Cuningham gets some continuity next year. He has a huge opportunity waiting for him

 

[Wickzki]

plentyblckie use of the word "management" is a cute way to describe Gill the Dill.

 

[windows1]

I agree it is likely we will get him, but until it happens, there is a chance it will not. Especially with the AFL involved.

The only thing I am willing to say for certain, is that he will not return to the Suns.

The AFl will be very worried about their brand here. They are not going to want to inflame the Indigenous community who would rightly be outraged that a young player was being treated so poorly. He asks for a trade two years running. The second year he’s not contracted and it’s refused. An offer equivalent to pick 13-16 is rejected. It’s rejected purely (by their own admission) due to the draft hand gifted to them by the AFL. Therefore the AFl are complicit in affecting this young man’s situation. It would be an outrage in his community if he subsequently is forced BACK to an environment he finds not supportive. When one that he thinks WILL BE was quite reasonable in its offer.

I expect the AFL to see this. I expect the Commission to become very concerned about this should Gold Coast continue to make noise about it. I expect them to be strongly encouraged to shut up. I expect Josh Mahoney (Melbourne) to make professional enquires ans then walk a mile away from it.

 

[ParapMarkets]

I know but you take a bigger risk of missing out as a few other clubs could take him

In the PSD

GC- Would have to be some huge reconsiliation and if Martin puts a bounty on his head for a year, they could lose him for next to nothing as a FA a year later

Demons - They aren't sitting at 95% of their cap, so they can't match a sizable offer

Then us

Yeah, surely we would have to run a much bigger gauntlet in the draft as opposed to the psd.

 

[windows1]

Yeah, surely we would have to run a much bigger gauntlet in the draft as opposed to the psd.

I think we need to all absorb this:

We don’t need to do anything. The boy can nominate in the PSD with no price. He can THEN negotiate. He can set whatever fee he deems reasonable. If GC or Melbourne don’t like it they will be in Arbitration with their own player. Facts like an offer from Carlton can THEN materialise as evidence. They will then be bound.

It ain’t going to happen. He will nominate PSD and neither GC not Melbourne will pick him.

 

[JuddgementDay]

It happens after he’s drafted. AFTeR. I think there’s a period (14 days?) of negotiation and then 21? of arbitration allowed for.

What?? So, let's say Melb drafted him, but can't negotiate $1m? How would arbitration work? That's unfair on Melb. As they could have got someone else instead

 

[thylacine60]

indisputably, j-man.........

 

[ParapMarkets]

I'm not keen on splitting picks just pick best available player at 9 we don't need multiple 18 yr olds that may turn out to be duds

It would only happen on draft night. If the players you want are gone and you think you can get your next favourite for pick 14, then you can extract value ( maybe a future pick that helps trade in a player next year).

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm excited too. Don't see how one player makes us a finalist though. Reckon that will turn on development of the whole list and game plan.

(In the membership survey I said I expected ~6th. Before trades and drafts, and expecting some inconsistency).

Go to it baggers

Betts + (Martin) + (Papley)

would have been a serious infusion of class into the list - I reckon those three combined would have added an extra 2-4 wins on top of natural progression expected - they would lift the average standard in 2/3rds of the field up a notch or two but especially the forward line to definite finals standard.

Betts will make a significant difference alone - he was definitely a forward line /leader/organiser at Adelaide. He combining wit Martin on one HFF and Cuningham on another would be good - better still with Papley...

I think that was a good plan - ticked a lot of boxes - hence a bit of disappointment/angst as people saw papley AND martin misses yesterday.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Next years draft is extremely compromised, and we've currently got 6 list spots available. I doubt that is SOS' move.

Because next years draft is so compromised, it seems highly likely there will be teams with good picks who will trade a good pick for multiple lower picks for the points if there player is likely to be bid on before their puck. I still think second rounders could be very valuable next year.