Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[Manhattanite]

Why would someone at Melbourne know Ollie's plans a year from now?

Maybe because his best friend is the Captain of the Demons and also may be looking to exit. if they weren’t such similar players they could go to the same club


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[Canyouhearthedrums]

This phone call is next level. You'd hate being in GC list management. Do a deal, get overruled, embarrass yourselves, then have to ring and apologise for it. Worst of all worlds

 

[barass70]

I see that as a good thing. Classic good cop bad cop by GC. I’d bet it means they want to discuss a pick swap still. Can’t have that chat if we are too pissed off.

“Best you ring SOs and apologise”

 

[Coops93]

I don't think we need to worry about Melbourne pinching Jack Martin, just from the player welfare perspective. He's made it clear he wants to get to Carlton and a large part of that is Eddie Betts mentorship, also his relationship with SPS has played a role as reported on here.

I don't think a club will take an indigenous player against there will, particularly when the reason for getting to the other club is because of the indigenous presence there. If it were because of money or something else then they might pick him, but because he's after that mentorship I find it hard to believe Melbourne would deny him that opportunity. The reverence the league has for the Aboriginal players is very good imo

 

[TheRedPill]

The apology was from the AFL - not quite Gil but close. Ultimately it means we get Martin for free and keep our picks, but as a reasonable & fair trading partner, it wasn’t our preference. We are always happy to pay a fair price.

They argued a future 2nd and 3rd were useless to them given the concessions they’d received, not bothering to consider that they could be packaged to move up. Truly bizarre behaviour.

 

[zeggie]

I agree. If Martin is forced to go back to GCS or be picked up by Melbourne, he and Carlton should go to Court and bring claims against the AFL etc for unreasonable, therefore illegal, restraints on their trading rights. The AFL know that the current system is vulnerable to and likely to lose such an attack.

I doubt he would go to Court with Melbourne, but definitely internal arbitration. Do they really want that sort of headache and media rise? Do they want their players thinking they are undervalued? If I was Brayshaw or Viney, I'd be asking for 900k as a starting point for their next contract. Probably a $1m. Melbourne are happy to pay 800k to someone for a year, why not them?

AFL drafted in clauses referring to restraint of trade in their own rules. They know a challenge will come one day.

It's happened in nearly all major US sports. Even the NRL here. It'll happen one day, but likely be a very high profile player who starts it.

 

[Coops93]

So by the sounds of things a pick swap is still on the table, meaning if we can agree on something Jack will be de-listed and we can simply sign him as a delisted free agent? Not having to worry about the draft or any of that?

 

[Jeremias]

Lyons was contracted to the Suns in 2019, forget just being offered a new contract or not.

Lyons was contracted for the following year, and the Suns cut him (at his request).

Of course he was, forgot about that.

So how is it at all similar to the Martin situation?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Lots of discussion about the pro's and con's of swapping this year's Pick 9 for future picks. It appears some of the issues we had this trade period was a lack of 'fire-power' (attractive picks) to get our trades done without another club assisting us. Does that add weight to the pro's side? Keep the discussion coming folks - very interesting reading!

We’ve got a full deck next year already, plus futures for the year after plus I’m going to assume there will be players other clubs will desire. Plenty of firepower

Use the pick this year, we won’t have one in top 10 for a long time coming

 

[Mr_Plow]

What apology are you referring to Plow?

Check the rumour thread.

 

[Stamos]

If this is true and it most likely is because we know how it works, it's a terrible look for the AFL as an organisation.

i.e. No one can really do their job because when it comes down to it, the AFL holds all the cards and if one doesn't do what the AFL tell them to do, then there will be repercussions but if you're a good little boy, then more 'favours' will come your way.

It's getting hard to take this whole thing seriously and someone/somehow has to put a spotlight on the blatant corrupt organisation that has hs now taken hold of what we called 'Our great sport' but maybe it's too late for that now, as once you've exposed yourself to crime it becomes the standard. Can't turn back.

The part that doesn't make sense (I am not in any way disputing that it happened), is that Mark Evans is a good operator. He's been installed to fix the basket case that has been the Suns. I get how Cochrane would do this because he's a complete ****stick, but for Evans to let this happen?


So that give the impression that it comes with Gil's approval. And then he's dudded us 3 times, first with the priority pick debacle last year, then the Cogs interference. Those were 2 completely separate things, and are understandable from Head Office's point of view.
But this 3rd time? Maybe the tin foil hat brigade were right?

 

[zeggie]

The only reason he wouldn’t be playing is because he isn’t at the club, surely players have some obligations in their contract

1.
Melbourne draft him. He can refuse to sign a contract. They have to pay him whilst arbitration handles it.

2.
Melbourne draft him. He refuses to play. They have to pay him that year before trading or delisting or arbitration.

Martin has options. None are ideal or nice. But he has them. Risk is all on Melbourne.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Yep

Wow, that’s incredible

 

[Sector 7G]

This phone call is next level. You'd hate being in GC list management. Do a deal, get overruled, embarrass yourselves, then have to ring and apologise for it. Worst of all worlds

Never worked for ****head of a boss before?

Really not that uncommon an occurrence.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

This makes me irrationally angry

Gives me a wtf moment whilst grinning from ear to ear...we get Martin for nothing...incredible

 

[HARKER]

So that give the impression that it comes with Gil's approval. And then he's dudded us 3 times, first with the priority pick debacle last year, then the Cogs interference. Those were 2 completely separate things, and are understandable from Head Office's point of view.
But this 3rd time? Maybe the tin foil hat brigade were right?

Understanding what people/groups are capable of doesn't amount to being a tin-foil hatter.

Too often critical thinking gets a wrap of being a just little kooky. Often shows up that it's actually not.

 

[Stamos]

Of course he was, forgot about that.

So how is it at all similar to the Martin situation?

It would be The Suns doing the right thing and delisting him

 

[Stamos]

Understanding what people/groups are capable of doesn't amount to being a tin-foil hatter.

Too often critical thinking gets a wrap of being a just little kooky. Often shows up that it's actually not.

No, I meant that as 'The AFL are against Carlton' tin foil hat.
Not that dodgy things happen within the AFL

 

[ParapMarkets]

Psd is not the way to go as you primary recruiting strategy. It does not build goodwill with the other clubs a d so is not a sustainable strategy imo. But it is there for when players are being unreasonably dealt with as in the case with Martin and gold coast.

This was a special case, being forced to use a top 10 pick for a player like Martin is wrong, a second round pick was closest to his value and should have been accepted as the starting point. We definitely don’t want to make a habit of being unable to trade for players we are after. What goes around comes around. We will not attract players with that strategy.

 

[GoBlues!]

Fair call... I just have an irrational distaste for all things *

FWIW - staying in the picture as long as we did with the Papley trade won’t have done us any harm with future prospective recruits and the industry reaction to GCS and potential irrationality in relation to Jack Martin ensures the reputational damage to CFC is, at worst, very slight.

Papley:
My initial reaction to the Sydney/Papley/pick 9 is probably based on a short term analysis of relinquishing leverage over our own assets. On reflection, if we consider the impacts to real people rather than treating them as abstractions or capital; we did the right thing.

Martin:
The AFL provided GCS with artificial arbitrage. Not our fault, not our doing. It would be unreasonable to expect us to cough up more than we offered. It looks like we'll still get him.

No real harm to our reputation as fair dealers in either case.

On the whole if you consider the outcome of the trade period it's a low key pass. Put simply, we expended marginal assets, Phillips and minor picks; for reasonable gain on both a short and potentially long term basis in areas of obvious need. We also maintained key assets for next time.

I think the Martin outcome reflects poorly on the Suns, trying to make a statement and send a message instead of making a trade and helping an OOC player get to their club of choice. This posturing of redrafting a player who wants to leave shows what a pack of dickheads GCS are.

As for Papley, we hitched our wagon to a contracted player which was dependent on another contracted player being traded...too many variables out of our control.

The problem with three-ways is that someone invariably misses out, in this case all three parties missed out and no-one’s needs were really satisfied.☹

 

[Jeremias]

It would be The Suns doing the right thing and delisting him

I have zero confidence in expecting the Suns to 'do the right thing'.

Delisting him now would make Cochrane look like an absolute imbecile. Well, even more so than he has managed to do himself.

 

[BluesRule]

Years and $$$$ - clubs just have to match those terms (match the amount off dollars over the term, not the exact breakdown of dollars per year)

Would be interesting if Martin prices at $900K and then $500K in a two year contract. Average is 700k for two years. Melbourne match 2 year offer, have to physically pay $900k next year then Martin asks for trade and the reduced cost in second year is lost to them in actual payments. Melbourne are not a wealthy club so that would hurt!

But it also means Melbourne are authorised by AFL to breach their salary cap by $200K in 2020.

Legalised cheating by the AFL yet again...

 

[zeggie]

The apology was from the AFL - not quite Gil but close. Ultimately it means we get Martin for free and keep our picks, but as a reasonable & fair trading partner, it wasn’t our preference. We are always happy to pay a fair price.

They argued a future 2nd and 3rd were useless to them given the concessions they’d received, not bothering to consider that they could be packaged to move up. Truly bizarre behaviour.

GCS argument is moot when they accept less than our offer for Ah Chee.

They don't need our future 2nd but saw fit to ask for a future 4th along with a 2nd in the Ah Chee trade?

 

[Fat Kent]

Pass on the pick swap so the AFL can't do us for 'draft tampering'. GCS had their chance and blew it.

 

[zeggie]

Would be interesting if Martin prices at $900K and then $500K in a two year contract. Average is 700k for two years. Melbourne match 2 year offer, have to physically pay $900k next year then Martin asks for trade and the reduced cost in second year is lost to them in actual payments. Melbourne are not a wealthy club so that would hurt!

But it also means Melbourne are authorised by AFL to breach their salary cap by $200K in 2020.

Legalised cheating by the AFL yet again...

It's not free agency.

They have to pay 900k in year 1 if that's what's on the nomination. End of story.