Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[thylacine60]

If we were winning Flags, do you think anybody would give a shit?
We weren't hating Elliott the last time we won a flag.

There's a pretty big difference between winning your 16th flag, and finishing 16th on the ladder though.

I'm gonna have to just ride this over-heated silliness out........bring on the xmas break? pre-season training? pre-season practice games? round 1?

ps: it's a game........

 

[Metalcrusher]

Freo, not Richmond.
I'm not sure that it's been clarified who over-ruled SOS, just that he didn't want him and was proven right in a very short period of time.
And I don't know how Bolton would be able to make the call about a WAFL player?

Speaking of WAFL...

 

[Stamos]

Speaking of WAFL...

Why did we pick Deluca?

 

[Michael Jezz]

what the fu** can I do about it? and what will endless complaining about it achieve? particularly as it hasn't happened yet - you don't think if liddle survives this backlash he might just keep his head done re player selection in the future? ie taking a learning from it and MOVING ON?

It depends how big his ego is? Remember he is the guy who delivered Richmond a premiership and has come to teach Carlton a thing or two

 

[KohPhi]

OK, my guess is, and this may be completely unfounded, but given that Lloyd was at Fremantle when Deluca was there, and SOS was over-ruled on his selection rather than supported, Lloyd may have had something to do with that pick.

Maybe..I'm not sure considering Lloyd would have also delisted him.
What about Eddie Betts, are you happy he's come back? Because SOS was dead against this, and was overruled by Liddle and Teague.
So should we also not be lauding Liddle for bringing Betts back? Or are we just going to focus on Liddle wanting Ellis as a reason for him to be turfed.
Fact. You, me and 99% of people here wouldn't have a ****ing clue what Liddle's contract allows him to do.
Now I'm not in his corner, nor am I in SOS's corner because to be honest, I couldn't give a fat rat's **** what's happened.

But we are kidding ourselves calling for someone's job considering we know sweet **** all about what happened, and the reasons behind it.

 

[Stamos]

Maybe..I'm not sure considering Lloyd would have also delisted him.

That's an interesting one. Wouldn't he be more inclined to side with SOS and block the pick, if that were the case.

As for Betts, I added to my previous post. But there's a big difference between the coach wanting a player, and the CEO wanting a player.

 

[Sector 7G]

That's an interesting one. Wouldn't he be more inclined to side with SOS and block the pick, if that were the case.

As for Betts, I added to my previous post. But there's a big difference between the coach wanting a player, and the CEO wanting a player.

It would seem that any boost in Membership Liddle was hoping to gain from bring home a Carlton legend will be offset by kicking a Carlton legend to the kerb.

 

[KohPhi]

That's an interesting one. Wouldn't he be more inclined to side with SOS and block the pick, if that were the case.

As for Betts, I added to my previous post. But there's a big difference between the coach wanting a player, and the CEO wanting a player.

Not sure Stam.. from what I'm aware of, it was Bolton who wanted Deluca.
For what its,worth though, I was pretty critical of his delisting.
I think the least we owed him was the opportunity of a full pre season to see what he could do.

It's not the first time a Coach has overruled the recruitment manager. Remember when Rogers (or Hughes, can't remember) were overruled on draft night by Ratten and told to take Lucas instead of Talia!,
In an interview I heard with Talia a few years later, he even said he got a call before draft night saying he was a Blue if still there at our pick. So Coaches can have a strong say..

 

[KohPhi]

It would seem that any boost in Membership Liddle was hoping to gain from bring home a Carlton legend will be offset by kicking a Carlton legend to the kerb.

Spot on there regarding the commercial interests of getting Betts back. I get that, it's Liddle's core role.

 

[Stamos]

Not sure Stam.. from what I'm aware of, it was Bolton who wanted Deluca.
For what its,worth though, I was pretty critical of his delisting.
I think the least we owed him was the opportunity of a full pre season to see what he could do.

It's not the first time a Coach has overruled the recruitment manager. Remember when Rogers (or Hughes, can't remember) were overruled on draft night by Ratten and told to take Lucas instead of Talia!,
In an interview I heard with Talia a few years later, he even said he got a call before draft night saying he was a Blue if still there at our pick. So Coaches can have a strong say..

Firstly, Ratten was a decade ago, and things have obviously changed a lot since then.

You may be right about Bolton, I haven't seen in clarified, but it would be interesting that a coach could pick an intestate player he has had nothing to do with, and over-ruling the List Manager who doesn't want him and the Head of Football who had already cut him. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

And don't think I'm bagging Deluca, I think I was more positive about him than most, it's just his selection, where he clearly has not fit into the list.

 

[Stefchook]

Where was it said Liddle wanted Deluca? I was pretty sure Bolton was a fan..

I'm guessing that decision was driven by Lloyd, who used to be at Freo.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I feel one of the main strengths of sos was the deals he didn't do and his ability to walk away from a deal he didn't like such as Gibbs, Martin and not overpaying for players such as Shiel and Saad who i believe if he really wanted them he could have paid overs and they would have come our way.
My fear now is Liddle and the new List Manager will overpay for a second rate recruit or free agent next year trying to justify the decision of getting rid of sos.

I do wonder if some of that is just dumb luck. We offered Shiel way over what he is getting he just didn’t want us; we were going to pay up big time. We were willing to overpay for Tomlinson and if he came we wouldn’t have one of Curnow or McKay. Who knows SOS’s crowning glory would’ve been getting Coniglio to the club and that would’ve been an extremely risky contract and we could be sitting here in the future and be talking about missing him being a blessing in disguise like we probably are Shiel.
Also it depends what you call overpay and second rate. Give me Martin every day of the week over Ellis but he has had a worse career then Ellis and we payed more for him then what we probably would’ve for Ellis. That one will be determined in the future though and I’m extremely bullish we made the right call but who knows.

The list manager next seasons job difficulty will probably all depend on our on field performance. We play well and they could look like a star and we will forget about SOS very quickly because it’ll make us an extremely attractive destination and attracting players easy. Have a poor season and a few kids we expect to don’t come on and they have an enormously difficult job still ahead of them.
If we do have a poor season then I do expect us to be probably overpaying for players because something has gone wrong and we will need to. This is possibly how Liddle and probably some others on the list management team felt this season and why this has all come about. SOS may just be much more confident in the list we already have.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

I do wonder if some of that is just dumb luck. We offered Shiel way over what he is getting he just didn’t want us; we were going to pay up big time. We were willing to overpay for Tomlinson and if he came we wouldn’t have one of Curnow or McKay. Who knows SOS’s crowning glory would’ve been getting Coniglio to the club and that would’ve been an extremely risky contract and we could be sitting here in the future and be talking about missing him being a blessing in disguise like we probably are Shiel.
Also it depends what you call overpay and second rate. Give me Martin every day of the week over Ellis but he has had a worse career then Ellis and we payed more for him then what we probably would’ve for Ellis. That one will be determined in the future though and I’m extremely bullish we made the right call but who knows.

The list manager next seasons job difficulty will probably all depend on our on field performance. We play well and they could look like a star and we will forget about SOS very quickly because it’ll make us an extremely attractive destination and attracting players easy. Have a poor season and a few kids we expect to don’t come on and they have an enormously difficult job still ahead of them.
If we do have a poor season then I do expect us to be probably overpaying for players because something has gone wrong and we will need to. This is possibly how Liddle and probably some others on the list management team felt this season and why this has all come about. SOS may just be much more confident in the list we already have.

I agree with what you say, i guess the point I’m trying to make is not just over paying money but also draft picks, I have no doubt if we offered gws pick 1 Sam Walsh as part of a deal for Shiel last year they would have gone to Shiel and his manager and a deal would have been done and Shiel would be a blue.

An example for this year would be if Ollie Wines becomes available yes I would love him for the blues but if we get bullied into a similar deal that the bombers paid for Shiel I wouldn’t be happy, I have faith in sos that if the price in money or picks got too much he would walk away but with the ceo trying to justify the decision to let sos go I’m worried they would do the deal just to be seen as doing something.

 

[Manhattanite]

I'm guessing that decision was driven by Lloyd, who used to be at Freo.

So Lloyd sacked Deluca at Freo and then decided oh wait my new club should pick him up? And then we also sacked him.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

So Lloyd sacked Deluca at Freo and then decided oh wait my new club should pick him up? And then we also sacked him.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Maybe Lloyd really disliked DeLuca so much that he just wanted to sack him twice

 

[RedFury]

Maybe Lloyd really disliked DeLuca so much that he just wanted to sack him twice

Did LOL hard. Thank you

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Did LOL hard. Thank you

I’m glad mate. Any time.

 

[Stefchook]

So Lloyd sacked Deluca at Freo and then decided oh wait my new club should pick him up? And then we also sacked him.

Or maybe Lloyd was a fan, but Lyon wasn't.

 

[DangerousD]

It would seem that any boost in Membership Liddle was hoping to gain from bring home a Carlton legend will be offset by kicking a Carlton legend to the kerb.

Is that why membership is about around 8,000 higher, than the same time last year?

 

[Stamos]

Is that why membership is about around 8,000 higher, than the same time last year?

I'd suggest that's due to the auto-renewals that he's introduced

 

[DangerousD]

I'd suggest that's due to the auto-renewals that he's introduced

Time will tell Stamos, pretty silly suggestion to make, considering we are up around 20% on the same time last year.

 

[Stamos]

Time will tell Stamos, pretty silly suggestion to make, considering we are up around 20% on the same time last year.

You think it's silly to suggest that auto-renewals which were a big push last year would increase the amount of memberships sold by early December? Really?

 

[Eiffel 65]

Time will tell Stamos, pretty silly suggestion to make, considering we are up around 20% on the same time last year.

In fairness, our membership increased last season due to the heavy discounts on offer. Price points do matter and they're still offering a fairly sizeable discount on 2020 memberships.

There should naturally be an increase this coming season based on the fact that people now have expectations that we could push for finals. Supporters always jump back onboard when success is just around the corner.

 

[DangerousD]

You think it's silly to suggest that auto-renewals which were a big push last year would increase the amount of memberships sold by early December? Really?

I think that people will use any line available to discredit and diminish the persons achievements of whom they are trying to criticise.

Feel free to message me in June or July if we stagnate or go backwards in membership sales and refer back to the post i quoted, that suggested this saga will cost us members.

 

[Stamos]

I think that people will use any line available to discredit and diminish the persons achievements of whom they are trying to criticise.

Feel free to message me in June or July if we stagnate or go backwards in membership sales and refer back to the post i quoted, that suggested this saga will cost us members.

What?
I am not in any discrediting Liddle's ability to sell a membership. He is clearly excellent at it. It's what he did at Richmond, and why we gave him the job.

Unfortunately, we put him in control of the whole Club, rather than just the membership department.