Training 2020 Training - pics, reports etc

[FRUMPY]

Its back 7 not 6 as well

 

[HARKER]

For me Weitering and Jones give us really solid one on one defenders with high ability to intercept, Plowman was very good last year taking the oppositions best small forward and then SPS, Simpson, Docherty and Newman/Willo give us an incredibly attacking group who can hurt oppositions with their run and footskills.

Marchbank seems a bit in between, which has him just out of the 22 at the minute for me but is a great player to have in reserve.

One one hand I can put a claim up for Marchbank and then I can take that away by having a different mix, leaving him out.

2 years ago, we experimented with him being one fo the dashing metres-gained backmen, along with Byrne.
We also had him slated for a wing spot but that wasn't required or just simply didn't eventuate.

Things are trialed through the pre-season, but generally speaking, it's usually the ideas that make sense on face value, that end up successful.
Just because a player has a run through the midfield on a particular day, doesn't mean that the club is now set on giving that player a midfield role.

In the end, even if Marchbank does miss early games, he's far too good not to make his way back into the team......unless we don't lose.

 

[Gethelred]

Its back 7 not 6 as well

What provides more balance, Casboult playing 3rd tall forward/second ruck and Stocker playing midfield/rotational defence, or Marchbank taking Casboult's place in the 22 and only being able to play defense?

The way I see it, Cas is in the 22 due to his versatility, and someone like SPS/Stocker (both of whom have experience playing off the back flank and through the midfield) can rotate back and midfield interchangeably, but unless Marchbank is taking a full time defensive role (or gets other strings to his bow) he's not taking their position, for the forementioned reasons.

I've given my back six, and then you've got Levi and/or Stocker/SPS/Docherty/Simpson/Williamson to rotate through the midfield and the flanks as per requirements on the day or in the moment. While having another tall on the bench certainly makes sense, playing Levi as that tall makes more sense than playing Marchbank does.

 

[BigFrizz36]

... which is what got us suuper exposed whenever we played against shorter forward lines and will continue to get us exposed again.

Let's be clear. In 2019, we had the fourth most points kicked against us. We spent the majority of the year playing too many talls most weeks; some of this can be forgiven on the basis of development and injury forcing our hands, but on the other side of it our relative height made us too slow to go with smaller faster teams. We have no midfield swarm defense, we are not going to be playing a defensive game under Teague, so our structure is going to be significantly different to how it played under Bolton, and one of the ways this will manifest is how we will structure up down back.

Let's also be clear; I see Marchbank as a long term option for us in the ones. However, due to injury and a lack of continuity (coupled with his lack of a determined position/role ahead of other players) I see him playing second 22 footy for some to most of this season. I have approximately zero fleece on the line here, and I have no issue being wrong, if indeed I am; I'd be stoked if the club were of the opinion that he is sufficiently far along that he could replace any one of Plow, Weitering or Jones. But I maintain that, without some means of limiting opposition forward fifty entries to long bombs or to kicks down the line, 3.5 talls is too many for a back six.

Lets also be clear. We finished third last so having the fourth most points kicked against us is hardly a surprise. We had 4.31 points per game more kicked against us than the Western Bulldogs who most consider to be a good team. We had Docherty & Williamson out all year and Jones missed an extended run. When Teague took over and we put Murphy and E. Curnow back on as full time on ballers we had the sixth most points kicked against us.

By all means hold an opinion as to whether Marchbank will be in the starting 22 (provided fit) but I think that he is an absolute Monty and believe that he has all of the attributes that once he gets a solid block of games to be absolutely elite. I suspect that there are many like me including the coaching panel. That, of course, is only my opinion.

 

[FRUMPY]

What provides more balance, Casboult playing 3rd tall forward/second ruck and Stocker playing midfield/rotational defence, or Marchbank taking Casboult's place in the 22 and only being able to play defense?

The way I see it, Cas is in the 22 due to his versatility, and someone like SPS/Stocker (both of whom have experience playing off the back flank and through the midfield) can rotate back and midfield interchangeably, but unless Marchbank is taking a full time defensive role (or gets other strings to his bow) he's not taking their position, for the forementioned reasons.

I've given my back six, and then you've got Levi and/or Stocker/SPS/Docherty/Simpson/Williamson to rotate through the midfield and the flanks as per requirements on the day or in the moment. While having another tall on the bench certainly makes sense, playing Levi as that tall makes more sense than playing Marchbank does.

All hypothetical but you have the bolded in your 22?

 

[Stamos]

What provides more balance, Casboult playing 3rd tall forward/second ruck and Stocker playing midfield/rotational defence, or Marchbank taking Casboult's place in the 22 and only being able to play defense?

The way I see it, Cas is in the 22 due to his versatility, and someone like SPS/Stocker (both of whom have experience playing off the back flank and through the midfield) can rotate back and midfield interchangeably, but unless Marchbank is taking a full time defensive role (or gets other strings to his bow) he's not taking their position, for the forementioned reasons.

I've given my back six, and then you've got Levi and/or Stocker/SPS/Docherty/Simpson/Williamson to rotate through the midfield and the flanks as per requirements on the day or in the moment. While having another tall on the bench certainly makes sense, playing Levi as that tall makes more sense than playing Marchbank does.

Levi and Marchbank are not competing for the same spot.
Levi will be picked in the forward 7, unless one of our key defenders is out injured.

 

[Gethelred]

Lets also be clear. We finished third last so having the fourth most points kicked against us is hardly a surprise. We had 4.31 points per game more kicked against us than the Western Bulldogs who most consider to be a good team. We had Docherty & Williamson out all year and Jones missed an extended run. When Teague took over and we put Murphy and E. Curnow back on as full time on ballers we had the sixth most points kicked against us.

By all means hold an opinion as to whether Marchbank will be in the starting 22 (provided fit) but I think that he is an absolute Monty and believe that he has all of the attributes that once he gets a solid block of games to be absolutely elite. I suspect that there are many like me including the coaching panel. That, of course, is only my opinion.

Just like mine is only mine as well!

I've said plenty here, but please don't confuse my belief that he's not in our best 22 right now with the concept that I think he never will. I'm extremely bullish on him, and I think he's got Jones' position sown up the second Liam's form drops off in any way whatsoever, but unlike Jones - who severely needs a leader down there to ensure that the ball he's going for is actually his ball he's not spoiling someone else's - Marchbank could become that player that understands, alongside Doc and Weitering, how our backline functions and knows what to do almost without thinking.

Just, I want him to spend a 4 week block getting form and confidence in his body and in himself. It wasn't too good for Weitering to do it in the VFL, and in those games he not only tore it up but became the leader that we knew he could be; he brought that with him back into the ones when he came. There is a real importance to the notion that some of our AFL caliber players will be forced to play second 22 footy this year, and it needs to be reminded that after generations of Carlton first round picks getting shot straight into the ones that being played into the seconds need not be a bad thing.

 

[Arr0w]

Levi and Marchbank are not competing for the same spot.
Levi will be picked in the forward 7, unless one of our key defenders is out injured.

May not be competing directly, but is ahead of Marchbank for team balance, due to versatility

 

[Gethelred]

Levi and Marchbank are not competing for the same spot.
Levi will be picked in the forward 7, unless one of our key defenders is out injured.

You're not reading what I'm saying.

You've got 7 positions for defenders in the 22, yeah? Weitering, Jones, Simpson, Docherty, Plowman make up 5; you've got 2 more positions to go for. So, do you go for a) a mixed midfielder/defender (SPS/Stocker) with good disposal, which is something that our back six lacks at present, b) a linebreaker and run and carry player (Williamson/Martin), or c) is there a third tall too big or strong for Plowman to cover (Marchbank/Levi)?

You have one position on the field, and you have one position on the bench. You have far, far greater flexibility (should matchups as they currently stand need to change, forced either by them not working or by injury) by picking Levi to play 3rd tall forward and second ruck and picking SPS/Stocker/Williamson (injury down back/one of the opposition KPF's off the chain? Shuffle the KPD and Levi. Injury in the midfield? You've got two extra rotations playing off the back flank, slip them in) than you are playing a single position intercept defender, regardless of how talented.

Stamos, I appreciate you have a different opinion, but unless you're willing to respond to posts (that directly quote you) which you disagree with instead of chiming up only when you feel you've an avenue of attack, leave well enough alone.

 

[Gethelred]

All hypothetical but you have the bolded in your 22?

Not all of them, certainly. What I do have is a preference for not playing 3.5 talls in defense, for the reasons I've stated.

 

[Stamos]

May not be competing directly, but is ahead of Marchbank for team balance, due to versatility

Only because Charlie is injured.
When picking our Best 22, Levi would be first emergency, as coverage to any talls, while Marchbank would be in the starting 18

 

[Gethelred]

Only because Charlie is injured.
When picking our Best 22, Levi would be first emergency, as coverage to any talls, while Marchbank would be in the starting 18

Are you picking only Kreuzer as a ruck? Who's second rucking?

 

[Arr0w]

Only because Charlie is injured.
When picking our Best 22, Levi would be first emergency, as coverage to any talls, while Marchbank would be in the starting 18

You are still under estimating Levi like many others

Levi can still play in a forward setup

Martin Levi Charlie
McGovern Harry Betts

Mid/bench rotations change that composition

Levi can chop out Krooz in the ruck

Against a side like the Tigers:

Weitering, Jones, Levi v Jack, Lynch, resting ruckman. Marchbank would struggle against any of those 3

Marchbank will be best 22 in time, but not at the moment

 

[HARKER]

Levi? Very important right now and almost a certain starter for mine.

I doubt we'd be going into early games without a second ruck and key forward.
Not even sure McKay will be ready and besides.............he doesn't like to ruck.

 

[thylacine60]

levi is forward while we have 3 (count em) of our kpfs in rehab of some sort - teague said as much on guessen this morning...........

 

[thylacine60]

speaking of which, what the **** is wrong with 11 now?

 

[Gethelred]

You are still under estimating Levi like many others

Levi can still play in a forward setup

Martin Levi Charlie
McGovern Harry Betts

Mid/bench rotations change that composition

Levi can chop out Krooz in the ruck

Against a side like the Tigers:

Weitering, Jones, Levi v Jack, Lynch, resting ruckman. Marchbank would struggle against any of those 3

Marchbank will be best 22 in time, but not at the moment

Plays very tall up forward is about my only issue, but the good thing is they're all miles above average contested marks.

Will take an incredible forward line coach to make it work if we go in that tall, but each is a threat in the air.

 

[Arr0w]

levi is forward while we have 3 (count em) of our kpfs in rehab of some sort - teague said as much on guessen this morning...........

Yeap at the moment he will be used as a forward, while chopping out MK.

 

[Gethelred]

speaking of which, what the fu** is wrong with 11 now?

Something's wrong with him?

 

[gbatman]

Plowman and Marchbank are competing for the same spot IMO.

Plowman has good defensive nouse but gets exposed for pace and mobility at times. Good solid defender, not overly offensive which is fine.

Marchbank is a great athlete, good pace, endurance and mobility and good offensively but lacks vision and defensive nouse.

It's a tough choice, Marchbank might become the better player, plowman is at his peak but at this stage is a little ahead IMO.

 

[Stamos]

You're not reading what I'm saying.

You've got 7 positions for defenders in the 22, yeah? Weitering, Jones, Simpson, Docherty, Plowman make up 5; you've got 2 more positions to go for. So, do you go for a) a mixed midfielder/defender (SPS/Stocker) with good disposal, which is something that our back six lacks at present, b) a linebreaker and run and carry player (Williamson/Martin), or c) is there a third tall too big or strong for Plowman to cover (Marchbank/Levi)?

You have one position on the field, and you have one position on the bench. You have far, far greater flexibility (should matchups as they currently stand need to change, forced either by them not working or by injury) by picking Levi to play 3rd tall forward and second ruck and picking SPS/Stocker/Williamson (injury down back/one of the opposition KPF's off the chain? Shuffle the KPD and Levi. Injury in the midfield? You've got two extra rotations playing off the back flank, slip them in) than you are playing a single position intercept defender, regardless of how talented.

Stamos, I appreciate you have a different opinion, but unless you're willing to respond to posts that you disagree with instead of chiming up only when you feel you've an avenue of attack, leave well enough alone.

I'm not picking Levi as a bench player. He's a starting key forward with Charlie out. If all our talls are fit, he's in the emergencies.

I have Simmo as the 7th pick defender, not the 5th.

 

[Arr0w]

Plays very tall up forward is about my only issue, but the good thing is they're all miles above average contested marks.

Will take an incredible forward line coach to make it work if we go in that tall, but each is a threat in the air.

Bench/ruck rotations, won't allow for a constant setup

 

[thylacine60]

light duties and running and separate from the main group from all the reports I'm getting - teague said he's training with 10 and coming along nicely - wtf? have we seen or heard of him in the match simulations much? I'm flummoxed........

 

[Stamos]

Are you picking only Kreuzer as a ruck? Who's second rucking?

Harry

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

speaking of which, what the fu** is wrong with 11 now?

Too thin.