Training 2020 Preseason

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Olian said:
Fair enough, rather than promote the game in the west of Sydney.
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There's 8 other games for that during the year for mine. And it's not like anyone is going to Blacktown that can't get to a GWS home game.
IDK maybe they did the Northern Rivers last year, I can't remember, but you'd think they'd want to promote the game in that area as much as possible.
Also us having a developing team, it might have been a better match up than GWS who I think will win the flag this year. I expect Swans and Suns to be about the same level this year, though if Buddy is going to be missing again I think they'll pass us.

Would have been really good to see the clubs give a half, even a quarter of Rowbottom, Blakey, Stephens, Gould, Ling, McInerney and Warner up against their first and second year players.
 

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mikey_san said:
There's 8 other games for that during the year for mine. And it's not like anyone is going to Blacktown that can't get to a GWS home game.
IDK maybe they did the Northern Rivers last year, I can't remember, but you'd think they'd want to promote the game in that area as much as possible.
Also us having a developing team, it might have been a better match up than GWS who I think will win the flag this year. I expect Swans and Suns to be about the same level this year, though if Buddy is going to be missing again I think they'll pass us.

Would have been really good to see the clubs give a half, even a quarter of Rowbottom, Blakey, Stephens, Gould, Ling, McInerney and Warner up against their first and second year players.
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GWS won't win the flag. There's a record out there that I can't quite remember exactly, but the general gist of it is that only one team that's lost by more than 10 goals in a grand final has made it to another grand final within ten years. Or something like that. Maybe it was six years. I can't recall. All I know is that we were the single exception to the rule in 2016.

But I do subscribe to the theory as I think grand final humiliations seem to have an absolutely destructive effect on a team's winning culture, and theirs was already suspect to begin with. Stick a fork in them mikey.
 
caesar88 said:
GWS won't win the flag. There's a record out there that I can't quite remember exactly, but the general gist of it is that only one team that's lost by more than 10 goals in a grand final has made it to another grand final within ten years. Or something like that. Maybe it was six years. I can't recall. All I know is that we were the single exception to the rule in 2016.

But I do subscribe to the theory as I think grand final humiliations seem to have an absolutely destructive effect on a team's winning culture, and theirs was already suspect to begin with. Stick a fork in them mikey.
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Agreed. e.g. Port in 2007 getting humiliated by Geelong, then missing finals the next season.
 
mikey_san said:
There's 8 other games for that during the year for mine. And it's not like anyone is going to Blacktown that can't get to a GWS home game.
IDK maybe they did the Northern Rivers last year, I can't remember, but you'd think they'd want to promote the game in that area as much as possible.
Also us having a developing team, it might have been a better match up than GWS who I think will win the flag this year. I expect Swans and Suns to be about the same level this year, though if Buddy is going to be missing again I think they'll pass us.

Would have been really good to see the clubs give a half, even a quarter of Rowbottom, Blakey, Stephens, Gould, Ling, McInerney and Warner up against their first and second year players.
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How much travel do you want the team to do? 10 interstate games during the year, throw in a preseason game in Tassie less than two weeks before the season starts. Frequent flyer points aside a trip up the M4 is sound.

They held a preseason camp at Coffs Harbour so closing in on the Northern Rivers area I would have thought. Last week they were down on the south coast visiting places like Batemans bay. It seems reasonable to conclude that they have promoted the game well in the offseason in NSW.

Prefer they play the Giants, you learn more from that game than playing a team which won 3 games last year by a collective of 11 points.
 
caesar88 said:
GWS won't win the flag. There's a record out there that I can't quite remember exactly, but the general gist of it is that only one team that's lost by more than 10 goals in a grand final has made it to another grand final within ten years. Or something like that. Maybe it was six years. I can't recall. All I know is that we were the single exception to the rule in 2016.

But I do subscribe to the theory as I think grand final humiliations seem to have an absolutely destructive effect on a team's winning culture, and theirs was already suspect to begin with. Stick a fork in them mikey.
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Ah, but correlation is not causation.
A (much) better tap ruck feeding the likes of Ward, Coniglio, Kelly, Taranto....
If they are reasonably intact they win comfortably this year, the midfield depth is completely insane. Conceivably the best ever.
Last year Davis was a shadow, Ward and Coniglio not there and a few underdone.
The only potential weaknesses are if Cameron or Davis are out I think.

Though you have to hand it to the AFL giving the Tigers 10 of the first 14 rounds at the MCG will certainly have them well placed to challenge.
 
mikey_san said:
Ah, but correlation is not causation.
A (much) better tap ruck feeding the likes of Ward, Coniglio, Kelly, Taranto....
If they are reasonably intact they win comfortably this year, the midfield depth is completely insane. Conceivably the best ever.
Last year Davis was a shadow, Ward and Coniglio not there and a few underdone.
The only potential weaknesses are if Cameron or Davis are out I think.

Though you have to hand it to the AFL giving the Tigers 10 of the first 14 rounds at the MCG will certainly have them well placed to challenge.
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But they've always been stocked with talent. Way ahead of any other team in the comp in that regard. Why then have they only made one GF, and in that GF, they kicked 3 goals for the entire match en route to an 89 point loss? Because they are mentally insipid. And they have been for a long time. Year in year out it's the same story, we hear about how amazing the Giants are with their 'orange tsunami', they flog some average side while their gun forwards kick a bag each, Coniglio and Kelly and Whitfield etc get their Fantasy coaches massive scores every week, then they get to must-win matches and flop most of the time. Plus their form at the MCG is absolutely embarrassing.

We, as a bottom four team, are closer to winning a flag than they, a runner-up, are, because we have one thing they consistently lack: ticker!
 
caesar88 said:
But they've always been stocked with talent. Way ahead of any other team in the comp in that regard. Why then have they only made one GF, and in that GF, they kicked 3 goals for the entire match en route to an 89 point loss? Because they are mentally insipid. And they have been for a long time. Year in year out it's the same story, we hear about how amazing the Giants are with their 'orange tsunami', they flog some average side while their gun forwards kick a bag each, Coniglio and Kelly and Whitfield etc get their Fantasy coaches massive scores every week, then they get to must-win matches and flop most of the time. Plus their form at the MCG is absolutely embarrassing.

We, as a bottom four team, are closer to winning a flag than they, a runner-up, are, because we have one thing they consistently lack: ticker!
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What will it take to fix them? Should they blow the list up you reckon?
 
The King! said:
What will it take to fix them? Should they blow the list up you reckon?
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They will have to gain that ticker through hardship, something they've never really had to endure as a club that was gifted plenty of talent, and within five years were talked up as a superstar side.
 
caesar88 said:
They will have to gain that ticker through hardship, something they've never really had to endure as a club that was gifted plenty of talent, and within five years were talked up as a superstar side.
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Yeah so keep the same list and coach and hope the loss last year and other near misses has worked? You said they can’t win the flag this year ?

Could they next year? Or should Leon go etc?
 
The King! said:
Yeah so keep the same list and coach and hope the loss last year and other near misses has worked? You said they can’t win the flag this year ?

Could they next year? Or should Leon go etc?
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I think Cameron should go, but they won't get rid of him, not when he keeps taking a ridiculously elite team to "close enough" land.

So instead they will end up probably wasting years by being pretenders instead of realising they need to get ahead of the rot and stop it now.

It's kinda like Geelong in a way. Every year they are up there abouts but are they really any closer to a flag than the year before? Probably not, but they don't bother looking inwards and reflecting on why that's the case, because they're "close enough". It's a trap that we were at risk of falling into prior to 2019.
 
caesar88 said:
I think Cameron should go, but they won't get rid of him, not when he keeps taking a ridiculously elite team to "close enough" land.

So instead they will end up probably wasting years by being pretenders instead of realising they need to get ahead of the rot and stop it now.

It's kinda like Geelong in a way. Every year they are up there abouts but are they really any closer to a flag than the year before? Probably not, but they don't bother looking inwards and reflecting on why that's the case, because they're "close enough". It's a trap that we were at risk of falling into prior to 2019.
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Interesting time will tell

I know the record of recovery from the grand final losses you mention, the optics of them sacking the coach and say flipping some guns would probably not sit well with the afl
 

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caesar88 said:
They will have to gain that ticker through hardship, something they've never really had to endure as a club that was gifted plenty of talent, and within five years were talked up as a superstar side.
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Just to clarify when you refer to gaining the intangible ticker. That wasn’t derived by beating Brisbane at the GABBA in the finals followed by the Pies at the MCG in a prelim? Winning consecutive finals on the road. Neither when they were missing their best players for large chunks off the year in the form of Ward, Kelly and Cognilio and still make a GF? They still have to earn this ticker?
 
The King! said:
Interesting time will tell

I know the record of recovery from the grand final losses you mention, the optics of them sacking the coach and say flipping some guns would probably not sit well with the afl
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Yeah I personally couldn't care less, I can't stand GWS but it's kinda boring every year hearing hype about certain teams and seeing them do well year in, year out, but knowing deep down they're just making up the numbers come September.

Plus also I'd like someone to actually challenge Richmond so maybe we can have a decent rivalry at some point like Geelong v Hawks or us v Hawks or us v Eagles.
 
Olian said:
Just to clarify when you refer to gaining the intangible ticker. That wasn’t derived by beating Brisbane at the GABBA in the finals followed by the Pies at the MCG in a prelim? Winning consecutive finals on the road. Neither when they were missing their best players for large chunks off the year in the form of Ward, Kelly and Cognilio and still make a GF? They still have to earn this ticker?
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Winning consecutive finals on the road against - Brisbane (making up the numbers) and Collingwood (the GOATs of pretending.)

I also believe there's no point making grand finals if you're ultimately not worthy of winning one, or at least making a competition out of one. 'Grand finalist' just becomes a pointless title then if you were absolute tripe.
 
caesar88 said:
Winning consecutive finals on the road against - Brisbane (making up the numbers) and Collingwood (the GOATs of pretending.)

I also believe there's no point making grand finals if you're ultimately not worthy of winning one, or at least making a competition out of one. 'Grand finalist' just becomes a pointless title then if you were absolute tripe.
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Anything can happen on grand final day

Lot easier to win if you make them
 
Punts said:
Tigers , wce and gws can all win it imo

clear above

dogs next for me
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Pies will be up there I reckon and geelong will do same as last year

Hawks will make the 8 imo too with the Brownlow winner back
 
The King! said:
Anything can happen on grand final day

Lot easier to win if you make them
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I agree but to kick 3 goals in a whole match shows just how far off they were really.

Like us in 2014, I thought gee maybe we just had a bad game, but then in 2016 we came out and underperformed again and I realised oh yep, this is a pattern.

Bad grand final losses never seem that bad at the time, they seem redeemable, but only when you look in hindsight do you see they are usually a telling sign.
 
caesar88 said:
I agree but to kick 3 goals in a whole match shows just how far off they were really.

Like us in 2014, I thought gee maybe we just had a bad game, but then in 2016 we came out and underperformed again and I realised oh yep, this is a pattern.

Bad grand final losses never seem that bad at the time, they seem redeemable, but only when you look in hindsight do you see they are usually a telling sign.
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West Coast were well beaten in 2015 by 8 goals and trailed by more through out the game. Three years later they won. Hindsight is telling.
 
Olian said:
West Coast were well beaten in 2015 by 8 goals and trailed by more through out the game. Three years later they won. Hindsight is telling.
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8 goals is different to 14 goals! West Coast at least put up a decent fight. It wasn't a total non-contest. That wouldn't have dented their belief that much.
 
Olian said:
They were down by 10 goals at three quarter time same margin as the Giants. Junk time goals in the last count for little.
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West Coast kicked more in the first half than GWS did in their entire game. That to me is just not anywhere near the level of humiliation that would've compromised their winning culture all that much.

In any case, can't we just agree that I think GWS are screwed, and you think they'll be fine?
 
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