Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

[Sewer de Lance]

It was modelling and data taken mostly by how it was spreading overseas.The modelling was never wrong per se. The model suggested we'd be able to flatten the curve with the 4th scenario of shutting borders + social distancing and level 3 restrictions.

Had we not done this the healthcare system would of inevitably come very close to being overwhelmed. There's no question.

You only have to look at how much of a tight balancing act this is with the Cedar meats debacle. Had we loosened restrictions prior to this we would be experiencing a second wave here in Victoria anyway.

I agree we need to get back to work but not tomorrow and not within the same state of normality we had prior to the epidemic. Apart from a late start , the country couldn't be handling this any better really.

We disagree, & that’s where I’ll leave this debate. Anyone want to discuss man made Climate Change? I’m kidding, I’ll stick to footy from now on.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

I got called an idiot after my first post because I disagreed with the lockdown, but that’s not an issue because I didn’t share the views of the majority on this forum.

This is called bringing receipts.

Here is your first post calling out the lockdown approach

Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

For those struggling with toilet paper, I have a tip. We are now halving the use by using both sides of the paper. Always been a folder unless it's one of those paint the walls type poops

www.bigfooty.com

Thank God, not everyone’s buying the BS hysterical fear campaign

12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Here is our list of twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the MSM, and the memes so prevalent on social media.

off-guardian.org

10 MORE Experts Criticising the Coronavirus Panic

Following on from our previous list, here are ten more expert voices, drowned out or disregarded by the mainstream narrative, offering their take on the coronavirus outbreak. * * * Dr. Sunetra Gupt…

off-guardian.org

Claiming that everyone who agrees with the need to implement lockdown restrictions is hysterical.

The pages that you linked to got called out for the quality that they are. Off Guardian is a Russian Troll site of people that were banned from The Guardian.

Then here's your return to the thread on Tuesday

Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

For those struggling with toilet paper, I have a tip. We are now halving the use by using both sides of the paper. Always been a folder unless it's one of those paint the walls type poops

www.bigfooty.com

I called BS on the severity of COVID 19 right from the moment Scumo & the rest of his lunatic advisers put this country in an unnecessary lockdown. Forget this season, it’s done. These *****g unrelenting control freaks still have to dig their boots in when all the real numbers & good science continue to prove they were jumping at shadows from day dot.

Thanks for screwing up the country, people’s businesses, our schools, our economy...oh & the bloody footy season you worthless maggots. Take the pathetic crumbs you’re all offering & shove them right up your arse. I won’t watch another game until I can sit, or stand alongside my fellow supporter without feeling like a filthy damn criminal.

So from nowhere you popped in and decided to call the governments advisers luncatics. Called them unrelenting control freaks and implied that everyone. And called them worthless maggots.

Meanwhile you've backed up all of your points with conspiracy theory pseudo science, which you've been called out on.

But here you are claiming to be the victim.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Sounds like a way to dismiss what he's presented after he's been asked to present it. I mean why even both asking for it?

It was dismissed because of what it is. Just like anyone should automatically dismiss anti-vaxxer's posting Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent studies as evidence.

Most of the claims to authority are actually from conspiracy theories selectively quoting out of context.

As master Yoda once said, if so powerful you have become, why leave?

Yeah but someone posting Darth Sidious as an authority on the Jedi shouldn't be dismissed right?

 

[Sewer de Lance]

This is called bringing receipts.

Here is your first post calling out the lockdown approach

Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

For those struggling with toilet paper, I have a tip. We are now halving the use by using both sides of the paper. Always been a folder unless it's one of those paint the walls type poops

www.bigfooty.com

Claiming that everyone who agrees with the need to implement lockdown restrictions is hysterical.

The pages that you linked to got called out for the quality that they are. Off Guardian is a Russian Troll site of people that were banned from The Guardian.

Then here's your return to the thread on Tuesday

Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

For those struggling with toilet paper, I have a tip. We are now halving the use by using both sides of the paper. Always been a folder unless it's one of those paint the walls type poops

www.bigfooty.com

So from nowhere you popped in and decided to call the governments advisers luncatics. Called them unrelenting control freaks and implied that everyone. And called them worthless maggots.

Meanwhile you've backed up all of your points with conspiracy theory pseudo science, which you've been called out on.

But here you are claiming to be the victim.

Not sure what was wrong with my first post other then the fact the 22 Dr’s quoted in the article weren’t embracing an all in, knee jerk response. If you got offended by that, then maybe you are the problem.

 

[edgie]

It was dismissed because of what it is. Just like anyone should automatically dismiss anti-vaxxer's posting Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent studies as evidence.

Most of the claims to authority are actually from conspiracy theories selectively quoting out of context.


Yeah but someone posting Darth Sidious as an authority on the Jedi shouldn't be dismissed right?

As Darth Sidious said, one must see all sides of the force and not just the narrow minded dogmatic view of the Jedi.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[edgie]

I'm pretty sure Janus was also once upon time posting videos claiming that the bodies were piling up in the streets in Wuhan and the virus was gonna be apocalyptic.

Bit of an about face in that regard.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[Sewer de Lance]

Some of the collateral damage

California doctors say they’ve seen more deaths from suicide than coronavirus since lockdowns - Washington Examiner

Doctors in Northern California say they have seen more deaths from suicide than they’ve seen from the coronavirus during the pandemic.“The numbers are unprecedented,” Dr. Michael deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told ABC 7 News about the increase of deaths by...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Portology]

Some of the collateral damage

California doctors say they’ve seen more deaths from suicide than coronavirus since lockdowns - Washington Examiner

Doctors in Northern California say they have seen more deaths from suicide than they’ve seen from the coronavirus during the pandemic.“The numbers are unprecedented,” Dr. Michael deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told ABC 7 News about the increase of deaths by...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Perhaps they could try comparing gun-related suicide figures around the world, as folks do most years, and for this time period (roughly) normalise for each country’s directly Corona related deaths.

But it is the Washington Examiner, so, little chance of scratching the scab off of that tragic taboo.


On iPhone using recycled electrons, via BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RossFC]

SA, ACT and now the NT corona-free.

 

[raptalia]

If Western Australia can achieve zero virus status over the next few weeks why not a travel bubble between SA, WA and the NT? Australia has to open up at some stage and that seems a logical first step. It could even be extended to include travel to New Zealand. The ACT have already approached the SA Government for a travel bubble but given the open border with NSW I am not sure how that would work.

As Steven Marshall has a ten year virus free exit plan it probably will not happen but it would be worth trying if only to piss Gladys Berejiklian off.

 

[pastmyprimus]

Malaria drug touted by Trump linked to increased risk of death: study

Malaria drug touted by Trump linked to increased risk of death: study

Coronavirus patients given hydroxychloroquine had a significantly higher risk of death, a study has found.

www.theage.com.au

It may be behind a paywall, so a couple of quotes.

A study of 96,000 hospitalised coronavirus patients on six continents found that those who received an anti-malarial drug promoted by US President Donald Trump as a "game changer" had a significantly higher risk of death compared with those who did not.

People treated with hydroxychloroquine, or the closely related drug chloroquine, were also more likely to develop a type of irregular heart rhythm, or arrhythmia, that can lead to sudden cardiac death, it concluded.

 

[Leaveit2charlie]

If Western Australia can achieve zero virus status over the next few weeks why not a travel bubble between SA, WA and the NT? Australia has to open up at some stage and that seems a logical first step. It could even be extended to include travel to New Zealand. The ACT have already approached the SA Government for a travel bubble but given the open border with NSW I am not sure how that would work.

As Steven Marshall has a ten year virus free exit plan it probably will not happen but it would be worth trying if only to piss Gladys Berejiklian off.

Territory are more than happy with their current arrangements. As far as their concerned they are more than happy to close the borders for as long as it takes to come up with a vaccine. WA we are getting at least flights coming in next week with Virgin so that's a start but they're not sounding keen.

Maybe another month Australia can eradicate COVID-19 completely only 15 cases yesterday in Australia? 12 in Victoria ( 5 from the abattoir 4 imported from those brought back from overseas and currently in quarantine another 2 from community testing and 1 under investigation ) 3 in NSW.

If you can manage COVID-19 at all you can shut it down completely from here in a few weeks. If they can not shut it down from the low numbers we have here there's no case for opening the borders.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Hence why I went away. Complete waste of time arguing about it. Nothing to be gained other than attitude and insults.



When people feel out of control, they look to leaders and authority figures to give them the answers. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that anyone who tried to push back against the government narrative was met with hostility.

What people fail to realise is is this: No one knew what was going on. All the science being touted was being done on the fly, based on epidemiology from previous viruses. The best you could call what scientists were saying was an educated guess, simply because they didn't have the data necessary to form a valid opinion.

That's why I agreed with shutting things down for a time until we had a better handle on the rate of infection vs recovery etc. while we collected more empirical data. At the time, modelling was the only thing that could be used.

Now we know it's not as bad as the models suggested, it's time to get back to work. Simple.

Some good points. Yes they did make decisions on the fly with limited info and who knows how accurate China’s info even was.
It was like if you could see your ship of 24 million passengers was about to collide with a massive iceberg and so you immediately turned full throttle 180 degrees only to discover later that it wasn’t an iceberg at all but a plastic floater.
The government had to do what it did because if this really were an iceberg we were doomed.
Each epidemic or pandemic has been different in virulence but they were making decisions on the fly.
We had not enough hospital beds nor PPE if the tsunami were to hit so we had to creste some time.
Australians would in no way have accepted an outcome like Sweden or Brazil .
It would be the toughest job in the world to be an epidemiologist or leader in Australia of late.i
I listen to a massive number of what I believe to be reputable scientists on the topic and all were in favour of various levels of lockdown or social distancing and the models will improve the more data related to our own country we have .
I agree we need to get society moving again but also that there will be further outbreaks when we do.

As for that Sewer fella, yes News media of course are powerful and have levels of corruption and secret agendas, look at Murdoch and Fox, but so do these social media agitators with their polished and professional looking presentations.

Both should be viewed with a level of scrutiny and distrust.

As for treatment of individuals on BF, I know what outliers of opinion have to face on here and it can get pretty awful at times.

 

[sobrave]

As for treatment of individuals on BF, I know what outliers of opinion have to face on here and it can get pretty awful at times.

The hurt I've been subjected to for saying star wars sucks

 

[JimmyBC]

That's nothing compared to what musical elitists face guys

 

[Powerage]

Good on Clive - hoping someone will challenge the constitutionality of the border closures. The premiers of pissant states like SA, states that are otherwise incapable of standing on their own two feet, are making populist decisions for their own political gain, against the national interest, and against the advice of the nations chief medical officer. They need to be brought to heel

I'm just being a devil's advocate here but couldn't it be argued they are acting in the interests of their constituents as they should be. I don't doubt that it advantages them politically.

I've only briefly read up on the constitutionality of it but I did read:

"the High Court has accepted that a state law may impede the entry into the state of persons, animals or goods that are likely to injure its citizens. These include risks of the transmission of animal and plant diseases and the entry of noxious drugs."
https://theconversation.com/states-...p-coronavirus-is-that-actually-allowed-134354

I'm fine with people crossing the border but I think it would be wise that they can show evidence they are free of the virus at least for the next few months. Otherwise they will subject to quarrantine or will need to await the results of a forced test if evidence cannot be provided. Maybe that is a pain for people but we have seen how travellers can quickly spread the virus along all they come into contact with on their journey. Perhaps there are better ways, but I don't believe in absolutely free travel across the state borders at this point.

 

[Schulzenfest]

By the time the High Court had even heard the case, let alone ruled on it, COVID will be gone and we'll all be worrying about the imminent outbreak of space AIDS.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

Some good points. Yes they did make decisions on the fly with limited info and who knows how accurate China’s info even was.
It was like if you could see your ship of 24 million passengers was about to collide with a massive iceberg and so you immediately turned full throttle 180 degrees only to discover later that it wasn’t an iceberg at all but a plastic floater.
The government had to do what it did because if this really were an iceberg we were doomed.
Each epidemic or pandemic has been different in virulence but they were making decisions on the fly.
We had not enough hospital beds nor PPE if the tsunami were to hit so we had to creste some time.
Australians would in no way have accepted an outcome like Sweden or Brazil .
It would be the toughest job in the world to be an epidemiologist or leader in Australia of late.i
I listen to a massive number of what I believe to be reputable scientists on the topic and all were in favour of various levels of lockdown or social distancing and the models will improve the more data related to our own country we have .
I agree we need to get society moving again but also that there will be further outbreaks when we do.

As for that Sewer fella, yes News media of course are powerful and have levels of corruption and secret agendas, look at Murdoch and Fox, but so do these social media agitators with their polished and professional looking presentations.

Both should be viewed with a level of scrutiny and distrust.

As for treatment of individuals on BF, I know what outliers of opinion have to face on here and it can get pretty awful at times.

People have every right to dislike me, mute me...etc, that’s there prerogative. I’ve copped a lot of flack because I’ve brought up websites which are alternative - if you want to call them conspiracy sites thats completely fine. I still read MSM articles, watch snippets of TV news etc but I’m entitled to critically think & analyse the content. I try to apply the same principal to the alternative sites I think are reasonable. I don’t embrace everything from one side & simply ignore the other.

Am I very mistrustful & skeptical of MSM...emphatically Yes! Do I have personal biases, the answer would be in the affirmative because that’s the way people are generally wired, & I’m not immune. One of the main reasons I am open to different sources of information is because of growing censorship throughout MSM & it’s close affiliation to both political & corporate establishment.

You might beg to differ, but at least many alternative sites are willing to give a voice to opposing views. Why does Big Tech & MSM feel so insecure that they have to censor debate? Many of the voices that disagree are highly qualified, well credentialed individuals who add value to the conversation. This is modern day book burning where only the States official narrative is deemed as truth & everyone else is heralded a heretic & publicly demonised.

 

[Forzaport]

Malaria drug touted by Trump linked to increased risk of death: study

Malaria drug touted by Trump linked to increased risk of death: study

Coronavirus patients given hydroxychloroquine had a significantly higher risk of death, a study has found.

www.theage.com.au

It may be behind a paywall, so a couple of quotes.

A study of 96,000 hospitalised coronavirus patients on six continents found that those who received an anti-malarial drug promoted by US President Donald Trump as a "game changer" had a significantly higher risk of death compared with those who did not.

People treated with hydroxychloroquine, or the closely related drug chloroquine, were also more likely to develop a type of irregular heart rhythm, or arrhythmia, that can lead to sudden cardiac death, it concluded.

The world would be better off if journalists didn't misinterpret observational studies to push their own agendas.

The most important message in that study is the following: a cause-and-effect relationship between drug therapy and survival should not be inferred.

 

[PatientMental]

You campaigners need to go outside more often, lot of grumbly people with cabin fever in this thread.

 

[Contested Marx]

Why does Big Tech & MSM feel so insecure that they have to censor debate?

Either because they are in on the conspiracy, or to stop people dying from Malaria drug OD and drinking bleach?

 

[pastmyprimus]

The world would be better off if journalists didn't misinterpret observational studies to push their own agendas.

The most important message in that study is the following: a cause-and-effect relationship between drug therapy and survival should not be inferred.

The author did have a crack at Trump but that doesn't detract from the key findings of a well conducted and published study.

"For those given hydroxychloroquine, there was a 34 per cent increase in risk of mortality and a 137 per cent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. For those receiving hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic – the cocktail endorsed by Trump – there was a 45 per cent increased risk of death and a 411 per cent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias."

I'd say this interpretation is more important:

"It's one thing not to have benefit, but this shows distinct harm," said Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. "If there was ever was hope for this drug, this is the death of it."

 

[StrappingTape]

Malaria drug touted by Trump linked to increased risk of death: study

Malaria drug touted by Trump linked to increased risk of death: study

Coronavirus patients given hydroxychloroquine had a significantly higher risk of death, a study has found.

www.theage.com.au

It may be behind a paywall, so a couple of quotes.

A study of 96,000 hospitalised coronavirus patients on six continents found that those who received an anti-malarial drug promoted by US President Donald Trump as a "game changer" had a significantly higher risk of death compared with those who did not.

People treated with hydroxychloroquine, or the closely related drug chloroquine, were also more likely to develop a type of irregular heart rhythm, or arrhythmia, that can lead to sudden cardiac death, it concluded.

" It is based on a retrospective analysis of medical records, not a controlled study in which patients are divided randomly into treatment groups "

Also the use is to use it early to either not get the virus or suppress it at the start

 

[StrappingTape]

The author did have a crack at Trump but that doesn't detract from the key findings of a well conducted and published study.

"For those given hydroxychloroquine, there was a 34 per cent increase in risk of mortality and a 137 per cent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. For those receiving hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic – the cocktail endorsed by Trump – there was a 45 per cent increased risk of death and a 411 per cent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias."

I'd say this interpretation is more important:

"It's one thing not to have benefit, but this shows distinct harm," said Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. "If there was ever was hope for this drug, this is the death of it."

A drug prescribed for 65 years and one of the safest in use is suddenly a 50% death choice because Trump. This is where we are at during this, amazing.

It's impressive to be so fulll of hatred that a lot in the media and politicians bagging Trump have them themselves either been treated with it or had a relative treated with it for this virus. Amy Kloboucher comes to mind

 

[Marat]

That's nothing compared to what musical elitists face guys

I don’t often agree with you JBC, and I’m late to the party, but the lashing you took for your view that all things beautiful and profound in old time music died on the doorstep of Nashville was most undeserved. A cultural mobbing from the philistines at the gates