A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[Kwality]

That Tasmania is a state is largely irrelevant to if they get a club. The market there is just too small, and is declining (both relatively, and in some important ways, in absolute terms). The point of comparing to other regional areas is that the exact same arguments apply, but *neither* is a good option for hosting a team.

As for GC & GWS. I disagreed with those teams having been created, but the argument for why they're there is completely different to the arguments for a Tas team (long term growth Vs sentiment). That the Commision chose to double down on growth and ignored the sentimental argument for a Tas team (back when the case for such a team was stronger) tells you all you need to know about their thought process.

It can be argued that VFL should never have addressed its problems & continued to delude itself the best players were playing.
Unfortunately the game needed to expand to get enough money to survive - that was the totality of the thought process.

The VFL had long stripped the game in Tas & grew to believe it was their right. Nothing has changed 30 years on.

I do agree the mindless creation of extra clubs was a mistake & 'more teams' is still on the agenda. With season 2021 looking like the hybrid we have in 2020, & with the AFL clubs unlikely to receive extra funding in 2021, there will be some deep thinking.

By 2025, Tas will have a team in the comp because it will be viable.

 

[telsor]

It can be argued that VFL should never have addressed its problems & continued to delude itself the best players were playing.
Unfortunately the game needed to expand to get enough money to survive - that was the totality of the thought process.

The VFL had long stripped the game in Tas & grew to believe it was their right. Nothing has changed 30 years on.

I do agree the mindless creation of extra clubs was a mistake & 'more teams' is still on the agenda. With season 2021 looking like the hybrid we have in 2020, & with the AFL clubs unlikely to receive extra funding in 2021, there will be some deep thinking.

By 2025, Tas will have a team in the comp because it will be viable.

Yes, the VFL had to address it's problems...Expanding is the choice is took, but there were other options of course. As for having the best players...I doubt anyone ever seriously claimed to have them all, just most of them.

Yes, we 'stripped the game in Tas', as we did in Country Vic, the Riverina, WAFL, SANFL, etc. etc. etc....Just like all larger comps have done with smaller comps...Like the WAFL 'stripped the game' in Albany, Kalgoorlie and Pilbara. I have no doubt clubs in Tas also 'stripped' players from lower leagues that weren't exactly local to them as well.

Any thoughts of further expansion are, at best, on hold until COVID is over and financially recovered from, and the (debatable) viability of a Tas team lessens as every year passes, so delay isn't their friend. Any hope of skipping that queue would depend on them putting LOTS of money *into* the AFL, and considering the current plan is that they get lots *FROM* the AFL, and governments (including their other major source of income) will be near bankrupt and probably unwilling to fork out for such things, that doesn't really seem likely.

 

[Kwality]

So to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything about the viability of an AFL team in any of the places I mentioned. Rather, I was asking why the game will apparently die off in Tasmania without a full-time team, when it isn't dying off in the NT, Riverina or NQ, even though none of them have a full-time team and aren't going to get one. If they have grassroots participation regardless of no local AFL team, why is this not the same for Tasmania?

Maybe for the same reason Canberra WAS an Aussie Rules town.
I'm not suggesting it should have an AFL club, just challenging your thinking.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

That Tasmania is a state is largely irrelevant to if they get a club. The market there is just too small, and is declining (both relatively, and in some important ways, in absolute terms). The point of comparing to other regional areas is that the exact same arguments apply, but *neither* is a good option for hosting a team.

As for GC & GWS. I disagreed with those teams having been created, but the argument for why they're there is completely different to the arguments for a Tas team (long term growth Vs sentiment). That the Commision chose to double down on growth and ignored the sentimental argument for a Tas team (back when the case for such a team was stronger) tells you all you need to know about their thought process.

The fact it is a state as opposed to a region helps its cause a great deal. It means it is able have proper government support. You think the NSW government are really going to support a third team in the bush? Tasmanian government will through thick and thin support their team. They’re already a major sponsor of Hawthorn. They buy games from two clubs.

You sir have your old suburban glasses on again

 

[madmug]

The fact it is a state as opposed to a region helps its cause a great deal. It means it is able have proper government support. You think the NSW government are really going to support a third team in the bush? Tasmanian government will through thick and thin support their team. They’re already a major sponsor of Hawthorn. They buy games from two clubs.

You sir have your old suburban glasses on again

One gets use to the old VFL glasses & the Melbourne bubble.

Questions of financial viability are important.

Its just when a business case is done & one explains that a club would be looked at as an arm of State tourism, thus will be supported. Also the passion of locals as well as the large Tasmanian diaspora, All that's ignored by some 'well credentialed' BF keyboarders who know better.

 

[RedV3x]

Yes there are issues domestically

and internationally as shown by the articles I posted.

 

[Seedsfan]

and internationally as shown by the articles I posted.

No yet again you are wrong, they had a fall in revenue due to no professional rugby. Australian rugby is struggling as participation is going backwards. The data they try and present show the game is rising but that’s due to the growth in women’s sevens. Men’s/boys 15s the numbers are dwindling

 

[RedV3x]

No yet again you are wrong,

Hello, look at your own statements.

they had a fall in revenue due to no professional rugby.

Yes, crisis.

Australian rugby is struggling as participation is going backwards.

You said it and everybody says it.

Men’s/boys 15s the numbers are dwindling

You said it.

that’s due to the growth in women’s sevens.

I'd like to see some figures on that especially for this year.
Hardly something to trumpet as the saviour of the code in Australia.

 

[Seedsfan]

Hello, look at your own statements.



Yes, crisis.



You said it and everybody says it.



You said it.



I'd like to see some figures on that especially for this year.
Hardly something to trumpet as the saviour of the code in Australia.

Look obviously this year’s figures are stuffed. But they publish the overall participation figures and then they hide the fact that the numbers for the main game is dying

 

[RedV3x]

Look obviously this year’s figures are stuffed.

That's a big admission.

But they publish the overall participation figures

And this years participation figures will be also be stuffed.

and then they hide the fact that the numbers for the main game is dying

hmm

 

[BringBackTorps]

Look obviously this year’s figures are stuffed. But they publish the overall participation figures and then they hide the fact that the numbers for the main game is dying

1. Yes, male GR RU is in significant decline in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

It appears there will be further major cutbacks in spending on GR RU there- which will have a further negative impact on their regd. male contact player nos. Many other areas will, by necessity, also have much reduced funding.

This Halloran article (The Australian) confirms the views by the ABC's R.Hinds (linked post 2877 below), that RU & soccer will both have a far greater % cut in their post covid funding from broadcasters/sponsors etc. (cf AFL & NRL % cuts in funding).

The AFL claims its new Rights' deals have been cut by c.12-13%, & the NRL new Rights' deals were cut c. double the AFL cuts.

A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

Yeah, I think I am with you all the way up to the AFL clubs literally having no means to get match practice into their reserve players. Well, I don't believe in AFL reserve players but obviously it is not good for players not selected not playing any football. I did not not see a problem with...

www.bigfooty.com

(Go to post #2877)

It can be expected, therefore, both the AFL & NRL will capitalise, in NSW, ACT, & Qld., on RU's & FFA's financial stress.

The next domestic Aust. RU comp. (whatever it might be), replacing Super Rugby, is likely to receive only c. $10m pa Rights' deal by Foxtel (the only broadcaster interested in it- $10m pa doesn't include Wallabies' games).

The Australian J. O' Halloran 15.7

sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU): "News Wrap | Friday, May 8th | WA AFL teams miss out on home games early, India still plan on coming to Australia, Kayo subs take a 30% hit, RA solvency questions https://t.co/ZI3V1TYArR"

twitter.com

(Go to Sports Industry twitter 15.7- then click on "The Australian. Rugby Australia Domestic TV Deal Worth No More Than $10m)


















EDIT:

2. NZ Herald 17.7

In discussions for the new comp. to replace Super Rugby, NZ believes there should be only 2 Aust. teams playing the 5 NZ teams- as Aust. only has sufficient talent to field 2 competitive RU teams.
If this eventuates (unlikely), the elite comp. lower profile in Aust. will further diminish elite RU in Australia- & hurt its GR.

NZR ditch Sanzaar: Australia and South Africa respond

Aussies asked to 'express interest' in new Kiwi comp. Fair to say they weren't thrilled.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Pippen94]

Yes, male GR RU is in significant decline in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

It appears there will be further major cutbacks in spending on GR R there- which will have a negative impact on their male contact player nos. Many other areas will, by necessity, also have much reduced funding.

This confirms the views by the ABC's R.Hinds (see my post # 2877 above), that RU & soccer will both have a far greater % cut in their post covid funding from broadcasters/sponsors etc. (cf AFL & NRL % cuts in funding).
It can be expected, therefore, both the AFL & NRL will capitalise, in NSW, ACT, & Qld., on RU's & FFA's financial stress.

The next domestic Aust. RU comp. (whatever it might be), replacing Super Rugby, is likely to receive only c. $10m pa pa sponsorship by Foxtel (the only broadcaster interested in it- but more for Wallabies' games).

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Swans chairman says lapsed rugby fans go to NRL.

 

[NoobPie]

Swans chairman says lapsed rugby fans go to NRL.

Yeah It's the lapsed A League fans that come to the AFL!

 

[Colonial]

Swans chairman says lapsed rugby fans go to NRL.

Lol

 

[Seedsfan]

1. Yes, male GR RU is in significant decline in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

It appears there will be further major cutbacks in spending on GR RU there- which will have a further negative impact on their regd. male contact player nos. Many other areas will, by necessity, also have much reduced funding.

This confirms the views by the ABC's R.Hinds (linked post 2877 below), that RU & soccer will both have a far greater % cut in their post covid funding from broadcasters/sponsors etc. (cf AFL & NRL % cuts in funding).

The AFL claims its new Rights' deals have been cut by c.12-13%, & the NRL new Rights' deals were cut c. double the AFL cuts.

A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

Yeah, I think I am with you all the way up to the AFL clubs literally having no means to get match practice into their reserve players. Well, I don't believe in AFL reserve players but obviously it is not good for players not selected not playing any football. I did not not see a problem with...

www.bigfooty.com

(Go to post #2877)

It can be expected, therefore, both the AFL & NRL will capitalise, in NSW, ACT, & Qld., on RU's & FFA's financial stress.

The next domestic Aust. RU comp. (whatever it might be), replacing Super Rugby, is likely to receive only c. $10m pa Rights' deal by Foxtel (the only broadcaster interested in it- $10m pa doesn't include Wallabies' games).

The Australian J. O' Halloran 15.7

sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU): "News Wrap | Friday, May 8th | WA AFL teams miss out on home games early, India still plan on coming to Australia, Kayo subs take a 30% hit, RA solvency questions https://t.co/ZI3V1TYArR"

twitter.com

(Go to Sports Industry twitter 15.7- then click on "The Australian. Rugby Australia Domestic TV Deal Worth No More Than $10m)


















EDIT:

2. NZ Herald 17.7

In discussions for the new comp. to replace Super Rugby, NZ believes there should be only 2 Aust. teams playing the 5 NZ teams- as Aust. only has sufficient talent to field 2 competitive RU teams.
If this eventuates (unlikely), the elite comp. lower profile in Aust. will further diminish RU.

NZR ditch Sanzaar: Australia and South Africa respond

Aussies asked to 'express interest' in new Kiwi comp. Fair to say they weren't thrilled.

www.nzherald.co.nz

What the future hold for rugby nobody knows worst case scenario we only have two professional clubs next year

But they may also receive a massive funding boost. KKR a private equity firm maybe putting 100s of million into the Rebels

Rugby Australia ‘in KKR investment talks’, returns in July with TV deal

US-based private equity firm KKR is in talks with Rugby Australia about an investment in the sport, it has been reported. The talks, which have been reported by the Sydney Morning Herald…

media.sportbusiness.com

While Twiggy Forrest looks likely to make a large financial contribution to the game

Super Rugby AU: Andrew Forrest on the future of the Western Force and Tattarang support for Australian rugby

amp.smh.com.au

In the short term the money means nothing as it’s not in the bank. But if both funding deals come through all of a sudden Rugby Australia has a big time budget to spend on grass roots and pathways and this in turn should see the product improve and gain more TV revenue.

Also this could be advantageous for the AFL, as the NRL where eying off a team in Perth and another in Brisbane to bring the comp up to 18 and grow the revenue and footprint.

With the Force awakening in Perth (sorry couldn’t resist) it will make it hard for the NRL to penetrate that market as union has a strong foundation at a club level in Perth that will help support the Force.

If the NRL can’t move into Perth they will find it hard to expand to 18 sides meaning their revenue will fall further behind the AFL they will also have more of a fight on their hands to retain players in league if rugby ends up being cashed up

 

[Kwality]

KKR a private equity firm maybe putting 100s of million into the Rebels

KKR ( & PPE more generally) will want something they can build up & sell - thats not the Rebels. I understand they want Australia’s interests at a Super Rugby level & the interest in the Rebels is a mystery. Between KKR & Twiggy why would you play for the Brumbies?

PPE have been active in rugby internationally:

CVC completes swoop for 28-per-cent stake in Pro14

Private equity firm CVC Capital Partners has today (Friday) completed its acquisition of a 28-per-cent stake in the Pro14 cross-border rugby union competition from league organising body Celtic Rugby…

www.sportbusiness.com

 

[NoobPie]

What the future hold for rugby nobody knows worst case scenario we only have two professional clubs next year

But they may also receive a massive funding boost. KKR a private equity firm maybe putting 100s of million into the Rebels

Rugby Australia ‘in KKR investment talks’, returns in July with TV deal

US-based private equity firm KKR is in talks with Rugby Australia about an investment in the sport, it has been reported. The talks, which have been reported by the Sydney Morning Herald…

media.sportbusiness.com

While Twiggy Forrest looks likely to make a large financial contribution to the game

Super Rugby AU: Andrew Forrest on the future of the Western Force and Tattarang support for Australian rugby

amp.smh.com.au

In the short term the money means nothing as it’s not in the bank. But if both funding deals come through all of a sudden Rugby Australia has a big time budget to spend on grass roots and pathways and this in turn should see the product improve and gain more TV revenue.

Also this could be advantageous for the AFL, as the NRL where eying off a team in Perth and another in Brisbane to bring the comp up to 18 and grow the revenue and footprint.

With the Force awakening in Perth (sorry couldn’t resist) it will make it hard for the NRL to penetrate that market as union has a strong foundation at a club level in Perth that will help support the Force.

If the NRL can’t move into Perth they will find it hard to expand to 18 sides meaning their revenue will fall further behind the AFL they will also have more of a fight on their hands to retain players in league if rugby ends up being cashed up

I honestly don't think the NRL can expand to perth (unless they go down the private ownership route). It is equivalent to the AFL's expansion clubs - short to mid term its costs increasing much more than revenue. The NRL does not have the independence to drive costly expansion for the long term good.

 

[Kwality]

Lol

Might have been having a shot at his mate Darren Mills, father of Callum found in Union.

 

[Seedsfan]

KKR ( & PPE more generally) will want something they can build up & sell - thats not the Rebels. I understand they want Australia’s interests at a Super Rugby level & the interest in the Rebels is a mystery. Between KKR & Twiggy why would you play for the Brumbies?

PPE have been active in rugby internationally:

CVC completes swoop for 28-per-cent stake in Pro14

Private equity firm CVC Capital Partners has today (Friday) completed its acquisition of a 28-per-cent stake in the Pro14 cross-border rugby union competition from league organising body Celtic Rugby…

www.sportbusiness.com

The thing with the Rebels is they can be successful.

The problems are the politics with Rugby Australia. Poor culture in the past and lack of money.

The Rebels get s**t canned for bad crowds but the Rebels crowds in the early days were a lot longer and then people worked out the on field product of super rugby was crap and the Rebels struggle.

Politics time and time again it seems the players that get the Wallabies contracts and the top up from Rugby Australia are Reds, Tahs and Brumbies and rarely Rebels or Force. Twiggy is right the old model of state administration has to end we need a modern system of governance.

The rebels have always lacked money be it for development purposes or to retain players.

One thing the Rebels do have though are locals starting to come through the ranks. This will help as the Storm and league have grown NRL here but the system doesn’t produce players

If the Rebels get a cash injection they can spend that money on the pathways attracting more players as they will see the pathway to becoming professional and those kids choosing to play league or union you will get a lot of them coming back to union.

The issue I would have if I was a firm looking at investing in Aus rugby is the low salary caps compared to European rugby and the NRL as they will keep losing talent that can make the effort to develop players futile

 

[Seedsfan]

I honestly don't think the NRL can expand to perth (unless they go down the private ownership route). It is equivalent to the AFL's expansion clubs - short to mid term its costs increasing much more than revenue. The NRL does not have the independence to drive costly expansion for the long term good.

The NRL pre covid had their sights set on Perth. Likely the financial hit they have taken means it’s off the table for a few years or the game may push harder for it as they desperately want the revenue from a second Brisbane team and don’t want 17 sides

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The NRL pre covid had their sights set on Perth. Likely the financial hit they have taken means it’s off the table for a few years or the game may push harder for it as they desperately want the revenue from a second Brisbane team and don’t want 17 sides

One of the first things pretty much done by V’landy was all but rule out Perth expansion

 

[Les Malone]

One of the first things pretty much done by V’landy was all but rule out Perth expansion

I think with the way things are ATM a Perth RL team is further away than ever, they will have less money moving forward and the game here would/does rely in bulk on Kiwi expats, no work in the mines, no Kiwis.

 

[Seedsfan]

One of the first things pretty much done by V’landy was all but rule out Perth expansion

His comments were that Brisbane will be the 17th side with the Western Corridor bid likely to get the nod. He didn’t rule out Perth getting a side. The NRL doesn’t want to have a 17 team comp

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

His comments were that Brisbane will be the 17th side with the Western Corridor bid likely to get the nod. He didn’t rule out Perth getting a side. The NRL doesn’t want to have a 17 team comp

He literally said “It’s no good spending a lot of money in rusted on AFL states” while talking about new sides

 

[NoobPie]

Just to remove any doubt, here is vlandys saying no to a Perth NRL team in February

NRL Nines 2020: ARLC chairman Peter V'landys says no to NRL team in Perth

www.google.com