A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[madmug]

If there is no thought, then how come I'm usually the only one to provide facts and figures from reputable sources?

As for regional areas, depends how you define them. The Murray valley (northern Vic + Riverina) would have more than that for example.

Of course you do.

You just ignore the business case.

You just ignore the fact Melbourne has too many teams, look at how much the AFL pumps into some clubs. Why

You just ignore the fact Perth has 40% of the population of Melbourne but only 20% of the number of teams. Why?

You just make up your own case, ignore the other professionals who have one. Why?

The main thing is you clearly ignore the politics of all of the above. Its ignorant to ignore the biggest driver in AF at the top level,

I bet right now the AFL wished they didn't have so many passengers in one city.

 

[abcde12345]

A quick google gives 158,000 as the figure.

Depends where you base a team and what you consider their "catchment".

Basing a theoretical team in Albury-Wodonga for instance, and trying to look at it like-for-like with Tasmania (that being, only considering the population within the same drive as Launceston-Hobart), you're looking at a population base of approximately 400k.

Shepparton has a similar population base to Albury-Wodonga.

Wangaratta has a larger population base than Shepparton or Albury-Wodonga using the same methodology (approx 450-500k)

 

[kaypee]

I guess each area has its own pros & Cons in that regard. Having numbers of players is secondary to an areas ability to support a professional sports club.

Tasmania has grown a bit more of late but kids playing AR has dropped, soccer & Basketball are growing. Our Traditional game is falling away. FIFO clubs come for money & really do little for the game here. The AFL sacking every development person hasn't helped of late, Did they do that in the other places?

It would make any discussion a little easier to have if those areas put up a strategic business case, as Tasmania has done. That'd certainly help.

At face value I'd say Tasmania would have the passion & population concentration to support its own team. The business case says its do-able.

I'd think maybe Darwin is just too small & far from the next biggest town to support a club.

Riverina too is a huge area with large towns & would require a lot of travel to games. I'd have thought the ACT would be a better option, although they have NRL & RU to fight with for support.

North Q is a huge area. Townsville, with 180k, is the biggest city & has a well supported NRL club. So it may struggle to support an AFL club as well. Economically it has struggled of late with the loss of its biggest employer. I guess everyone is struggling at the moment anyway. Cairns has about 150k population, Hobart is about 240k (2 hours to Launceston with 100k people). Its a 700km return trip Cairns/Townsville , so whether it could support a team is also difficult to see.

Again, you'd want to see a business case or 4 .

I don't reckon North Queensland is a goer. I lived up there until 10 years ago: footy is popular in Cairns at a community club level, probably only slightly behind rugby. The local comp draws crowds and has a genuine history. Problem with Cairns is that it's tiny - a lot smaller than it looks, and the population that is there is highly transient. Quite a few people fly in fly out, or stay for a few years and move on. Townsville is dominated by league and they hate Cairns anyway, so a shared team would be troublesome (Queensland in general is highly parochial: Queensland hates NSW, but FNQ hates the SEQ and then Townsville hates Cairns, but Cairns hates its northern beaches and so on)

 

[Seedsfan]

But Australia is very different form Japan.



"Losing fans in Australia" is the important bit.



Which means it's coming off of a very small base. It's the catch-cry of losers.
What's the point of a wider spread when the important rugby countries are faltering?



So why is rugby in such a pathetic position if it's got all this money?

People were afraid that the Japan World Cup would fail as it wasn’t a traditional nation yet it set a record for TV numbers.

The point is the more the game grows the more money is involved. It’s only one nation in Australia that is struggling to keep up

The last bit you can answer your own question these events haven’t taken place yet part of the reason IRB is giving Australia the 27 World Cup is as a financial bailout.

Will rugby compete with AFL? No it will maintain its position as the third of the contact footy codes but it won’t just die

 

[RedV3x]

The point is the more the game grows the more money is involved.

Yes, well, don't let facts get in the way of a good yarn.

The Breakdown | Change or die: rugby union's growing financial storm calls for strong action

The fact the RFU, the world’s richest union, is having to make cutbacks should focus minds amid plans to restart rugby

www.theguardian.com

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Seedsfan]

Yes, well, don't let facts get in the way of a good yarn.

The Breakdown | Change or die: rugby union's growing financial storm calls for strong action

The fact the RFU, the world’s richest union, is having to make cutbacks should focus minds amid plans to restart rugby

www.theguardian.com

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

So the RFU goes backwards 20% due to corona and it means there is no money in the game despite solid financial growth over the last decade.

 

[madmug]

I don't reckon North Queensland is a goer. I lived up there until 10 years ago: footy is popular in Cairns at a community club level, probably only slightly behind rugby. The local comp draws crowds and has a genuine history. Problem with Cairns is that it's tiny - a lot smaller than it looks, and the population that is there is highly transient. Quite a few people fly in fly out, or stay for a few years and move on. Townsville is dominated by league and they hate Cairns anyway, so a shared team would be troublesome (Queensland in general is highly parochial: Queensland hates NSW, but FNQ hates the SEQ and then Townsville hates Cairns, but Cairns hates its northern beaches and so on)

Parochial attitudes can be a powerful force & quite useful if pushed the right way. Parochial attitudes is what makes the RL State of Origin such a draw card. Or the old Vic v SA in our original SOO games.

If FNQ were given a team & it was based in Cairns, was called FNQ Marlins or whatever, but also played in Townsville, it might get some traction. The tyranny of distance would affect both local & fly in crowds.

GWS is a made up geographic area, with Canberra tacked on for the AFL's purposes. Parts of the area don't get on. Penrith, Campbelltown, Liverpool, Parramatta don't see them selves as part of each other. However enough people who like Aussie rules will ignore that & support the team. How much that increases over time will be interesting, to say the least.

Launceston hates Hobart. Burnie hates Devonport, Both hate Launceston nearly as much as Hobart. However they support Tasmanian teams in all sports when they can. The Tassie population & economy may be seen as only just be enough for an AFL team, but it is a passionate footy state that makes the difference. People will go out of their way to support a Tassie team. That's already been seen with the T20 Hobart Hurricanes.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything about the viability of an AFL team in any of the places I mentioned. Rather, I was asking why the game will apparently die off in Tasmania without a full-time team, when it isn't dying off in the NT, Riverina or NQ, even though none of them have a full-time team and aren't going to get one. If they have grassroots participation regardless of no local AFL team, why is this not the same for Tasmania?

 

[madmug]

So to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything about the viability of an AFL team in any of the places I mentioned. Rather, I was asking why the game will apparently die off in Tasmania without a full-time team, when it isn't dying off in the NT, Riverina or NQ, even though none of them have a full-time team and aren't going to get one. If they have grassroots participation regardless of no local AFL team, why is this not the same for Tasmania?

So what are the grass roots player figures for all those areas you mentioned?

How many AFL development officers work in all those areas?

How much do the AFL invest in those areas?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So what are the grass roots player figures for all those areas you mentioned?

How many AFL development officers work in all those areas?

How much do the AFL invest in those areas?

Why is any of this relevant? The fact remains they do have grassroots participation in all those areas despite no local team.

 

[madmug]

Why is any of this relevant? The fact remains they do have grassroots participation in all those areas despite no local team.

How do you know that? What are the junior & other grass roots participation numbers comparatively?

To get a proper picture surely you would need to know all those figures. Participation, investment by the AFLetc

 

[Johnny Bananas]

How do you know that?

Because clubs exist there and draftees keep coming out of those regions.

 

[Walshawk]

Back to Sydney...

The Vic clubs’ recent experience in Sydney shows that the first priority is to upgrade facilities. Hansen Park was due for a major upgrade if Labor has won the last election. Swans and GWS AFLW was to be played there plus pre season AFL games. The AFL need to get that back on the agenda.

 

[RedV3x]

So the RFU goes backwards 20% due to corona and it means there is no money in the game despite solid financial growth over the last decade.

I just giving seemingly educated media accounts over some irrational fan.
Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Seedsfan]

I just giving seemingly educated media accounts over some irrational fan.
Don't shoot the messenger.

Mate you just don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Every comp world wide that has had to suspend the season has taken a finical hit.

 

[robbieando]

Back to Sydney...

The Vic clubs’ recent experience in Sydney shows that the first priority is to upgrade facilities. Hansen Park was due for a major upgrade if Labor has won the last election. Swans and GWS AFLW was to be played there plus pre season AFL games. The AFL need to get that back on the agenda.

Was nice that the Victorian clubs experienced for the past fortnight what we have put up with as a club for the past 38 years.

Hansen Park will come after the AFL and the Swans complete the Royal Hall of Industries project which was put on the backburner when the pandemic started. The club had the funding from the AFL and the State and Federal Government so that will be the number one priority.

 

[madmug]

Because clubs exist there and draftees keep coming out of those regions.

That's not facts & figures, is it. I mean at least make an effort to discuss the situation with some idea of the facts on the ground.

BF has a list of defunct Vic country defunct clubs. Its sad reading, same here too.

Country & regional areas tend to be the canary in the cage so far as showing the health of sport. Rural Vic clubs & leagues are bemoaning their current situation.

Lets see how Cairns clubs (I could only find 7 of them in such a sizable city), & Riverina get through without players FIFO from 'down South' or Darwin, or driving to country teams from Melbourne to play.

Darwin footy dont play until about October, so they are ok so far.

You need some facts at least to discuss this.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I've commented a few times that if you relabeled the arguments for a Tas team with any number of regional areas, it would hold up just as well (which is to say, badly).

Basically it all comes down to...AFL hands over a fistful of money (well over $10M a year, probably over $15M), the local economy benefits, maybe a few more kids play the game, but really the AFL gets very little back for their massive and ongoing investment which is probably going to need to grow ever larger as time goes on. Add in lots of emotive arguments that apply to anywhere outside the major cities (and often have little to do with AFL) and you've got the (hugely flawed) argument for such a team.

If there is no thought, then how come I'm usually the only one to provide facts and figures from reputable sources?

As for regional areas, depends how you define them. The Murray valley (northern Vic + Riverina) would have more than that for example.

You provide facts and figures that are absolutely meaningless they prove nothing trying to compare Tasmania to regional towns in states that already have teams Is a joke you seem to have some type of agenda against Tasmania getting a team if you posted like this in reference to gws or suns you would be labeled a troll

 

[Tasmanian saint]

So to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything about the viability of an AFL team in any of the places I mentioned. Rather, I was asking why the game will apparently die off in Tasmania without a full-time team, when it isn't dying off in the NT, Riverina or NQ, even though none of them have a full-time team and aren't going to get one. If they have grassroots participation regardless of no local AFL team, why is this not the same for Tasmania?

None of the areas you mentioned have had a another code entering and base a a team there basketball has been booming for the last 5 years in participation in Tasmania with the nbl team coming that’s just going to skyrocket Larry kestleman is sitting back and laughing at how amateurish the afl have been down here if the afl continue to do nothing football will go from bad to worse down here !

 

[RedV3x]

Mate

You're not my mate - you're a troll.

you just don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

I'm just quoting responsible media reports.
Are you disputing what these media say?

Every comp world wide that has had to suspend the season has taken a finical hit.

And that goes against the rosy picture you painted for RU - doesn't it.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

None of the areas you mentioned have had a another code entering and base a a team there basketball has been booming for the last 5 years in participation in Tasmania with the nbl team coming that’s just going to skyrocket Larry kestleman is sitting back and laughing at how amateurish the afl have been down here if the afl continue to do nothing football will go from bad to worse down here !

Amazingly basketball has boomed in the over saturated Melbourne market too, it’s almost as if there is no correlation at all.

 

[Kwality]

So the RFU goes backwards 20% due to corona and it means there is no money in the game despite solid financial growth over the last decade.

Our best baseballers earn good money in the US, Union players have long turned their back on Aus.

See Buddys brother in law:

Matt Giteau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

&

Giteau's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Not arguing the state of the game in Aus.

 

[Seedsfan]

Our best baseballers earn good money in the US, Union players have long turned their back on Aus.

See Buddys brother in law:

Matt Giteau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

&

Giteau's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Not arguing the state of the game in Aus.

Exactly as the game is financially is strong in the northern hemisphere and in Japan just in a weak position in Aus

 

[Seedsfan]

You're not my mate - you're a troll.



I'm just quoting responsible media reports.
Are you disputing what these media say?



And that goes against the rosy picture you painted for RU - doesn't it.

You picked one article that is not relevant to what’s being discussed. The World Cup and lions tour will deliver substantial income for the game. Yes there are issues domestically that they have to overcome obviously the Top and Premiership having to cancel the season have taken a hit but that is no different to the AFL reducing the cap

 

[telsor]

You provide facts and figures that are absolutely meaningless they prove nothing trying to compare Tasmania to regional towns in states that already have teams Is a joke you seem to have some type of agenda against Tasmania getting a team if you posted like this in reference to gws or suns you would be labeled a troll

That Tasmania is a state is largely irrelevant to if they get a club. The market there is just too small, and is declining (both relatively, and in some important ways, in absolute terms). The point of comparing to other regional areas is that the exact same arguments apply, but *neither* is a good option for hosting a team.

As for GC & GWS. I disagreed with those teams having been created, but the argument for why they're there is completely different to the arguments for a Tas team (long term growth Vs sentiment). That the Commision chose to double down on growth and ignored the sentimental argument for a Tas team (back when the case for such a team was stronger) tells you all you need to know about their thought process.