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It's time to put some heat on the selection committee

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Oct 6, 2004
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The loss to Melbourne, and our form over the past 5 weeks, has obviously been very poor. To be honest, the result against Melbourne was probably not a surprise given the consecutive 4-5 day turnarounds, in 3 different states...and also factor in we have lost multiple players in games, which means lower rotations and more loading on players.

We now have an opportunity to take 9 days to reset and have a re-think about things. The loss in itself is not the reason for my frustration.

I've been a vocal critic of our selection for some time now. It's not multiple changes that frustrates me, its the multiple structures we throw out each week. It is not surprising that our form fluctuates when you have a different set-up each week, which in turn means a different system. If you play 1 key tall, you are asking your mids to lower the eyes and hit up targets. When you play 4 talls, you are telling them to bomb it in long to get a contest.

The benchmark is obviously Richmond. The thing they do well is replace one player with a like for like, so the system does not change. Sometimes, that means being a bit creative (ie they have thrown Bolton into the midfield to replace Edwardes, or bring in Eggmolesse- Smith to fill the shoes of Houli....or Balta to come in for Astbury.

We on the other hand chop and change our structure each week. Here is the example.

We start round 1 with Cox + Mihocek (2 talls) + De Goey (who I'll call a pseudo-tall) and our defence had 4 talls in Roughead, Moore, Howe and Magden. That structure seemed to work well, and we played our best footy of the season.

Now let's fast forward to Round 6 vs Hawthorn - 3 talls. We had Cox + Kelly + Mihocek (no de goey). The system again worked pretty well.

Round 7 vs Geelong - 1 tall (Mihocek) + De Goey. Interestringly, down back we only had 2 key talls (dropping Scharenberg). Again, system worked ok, but it took De Goey to kick 5 of our 8 goals.

Round 8 - West Coast - 2 talls, Cameron and Mihocek, and in defence 3 talls (adding Scharenberg in).

Round 9 v Fremantle - Again the same 2 talls, with Magden coming in to replace Scharenberg. I don't consider them like for like and Magden is more a shut down defender, and Scharenberg an intercept marker.

Round 10 v Sydney - 3 talls, with Reid and Ruscoe coming in at the expense of Cameron.

Round 11 v Adelaide - 3 talls, but this time Cameron in for Reid.

Round 12 v Melbourne - 4 talls - Reid, Cameron, Mihocek and Ruscoe.


What we are seeing is far too much mucking around with our structure, with different personnel up there every week.

I don't mind making 5 changes, but i do mind if the structure is altered every week.

Personally, i think the best system is Mihocek + Cox/Cameron + De Goey as the pseudo-tall. With De Goey out, I think we should be turning to Stephenson to replicate the role, but we have moved him away from this role and mucked with his form.

Also, I think it is a big mistake to be playing Magden + Dunn/Roughead. These guys are full backs with little offensive power. For me, you need to bring in one of Scharenberg, Murphy or Keane as they act as intercept markers. Langdon probably resolves this problem when available. For now, I'd give Murphy a crack.

I think this week we should make as many changes as need be to get our best and preferred structure. That's the challenge for the selection committee. They need to decide what our best system is, and pick the best 22 to meet that system. After that, lock it in and make changes which accommodate the system.

If Buckley has not worked out his best structure after 9 years at the helm, then that is a huge problem. He should have some sort of idea of that by now.

A lot will ride on Mihocek's availability. If he is unavailable, the only other player on the list I can see who could do a similar role is Lynden Dunn. He has played as a forward before, is a similar height and build, and can aggressively attack packs. I sincerely hope we don't consider a forward line with Cox + Cameron. That again would be an entirely different system to what we have had to date. I'd also be putting Elliott forward again with the instruction to play as a small. We can't keep playing JT + Brown if they don't score.

I would be saying we go back to:

In: Cox, Murphy, Roughead, Rantall, Stephenson
Out: Cameron, Magden, Dunn, C. Brown, Reid.
 
I would have played Reid against Adelaide and rested Grundy. Clearly protecting Reid from a four day break didn’t prevent him getting injured. We should have been protecting our dispensiblr players more during this period.

I would have played Sier a month earlier and dropped Wills.

I would have liked to see Moore played forward

Elliott has spent too much time in the midfield. Stephenson I understand attempting to get him into the game upfield.

Mihocek has been overused. Maybe Kelly could have been tried earlier... or Moore. Cameron is not the answer.

Varcoe and Thomas have had too many chances.

Mostly our selectors are the victims of poor list management injuries and lack of depth
 
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I would have played Reid against Adelaide and rested Grundy. Clearly protecting Reid from a four day break didn’t prevent him getting injured. We should have been protecting our dispensiblr players more during this period.

I would have played Sier a month earlier and dropped Wills.

I would have liked to see Moore played forward

Elliott has spent too much time in the midfield. Stephenson I understand attempting to get him into the game upfield.

Mihocek has been overused. Maybe Kelly could have been tried earlier... or Moore. Cameron is not the answer.

Varcoe and Thomas have had too many chances.

Mostly ourvselectors are the victims of poor list management and lack of depth

Agreed with Reid. The reality was that he was going to break down at some point. We were better off just playing him consistently and getting as much out of him as possible before the inevitable happened.

I mentioned at half time that it wouldn't shock me if Reid broke down in the 3rd quarter. I feel for the bloke but he is done and it's a shame his past 5-7 years have been completely ruined by injury.

As for our forward structure, it's a total a shit show. How do us supporters have any idea or confidence in it when the coaches have NFI what they're doing with it.

If the club does nothing to fix this area over the summer then heads need to roll in 2021.
 

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Yeah this is less about individual selection choices, and more about the rotating structures that are being thrown up into our forward line.

It seems like selection on the run, without any real thought about what our true structure is and what works best.

This is the sort of stuff you would expect from a first year coach or a team in rebuild. Not a side that is supposedly contending. Surely by now we understand our system and play to the same structures week in week out. Players can come and go, but the structure shouldnt change.
 
Yeah they've lost the plot. We used to hear the phrase "come in and play my role" a lot, like a player would come in to the side, and just fill a pre-determined role/gap in the side. Now it's a ****ing mess. Either they're overthinking and trying to out-coach the opposition (lol), or they have zero faith in our squad, which is a massive problem in itself. Other good teams just throw debutants and kids in to an already organised structure, and it works fine.

We are a joke, I'm embarrassed...
 
The loss to Melbourne, and our form over the past 5 weeks, has obviously been very poor. To be honest, the result against Melbourne was probably not a surprise given the consecutive 4-5 day turnarounds, in 3 different states...and also factor in we have lost multiple players in games, which means lower rotations and more loading on players.

We now have an opportunity to take 9 days to reset and have a re-think about things. The loss in itself is not the reason for my frustration.

I've been a vocal critic of our selection for some time now. It's not multiple changes that frustrates me, its the multiple structures we throw out each week. It is not surprising that our form fluctuates when you have a different set-up each week, which in turn means a different system. If you play 1 key tall, you are asking your mids to lower the eyes and hit up targets. When you play 4 talls, you are telling them to bomb it in long to get a contest.

The benchmark is obviously Richmond. The thing they do well is replace one player with a like for like, so the system does not change. Sometimes, that means being a bit creative (ie they have thrown Bolton into the midfield to replace Edwardes, or bring in Eggmolesse- Smith to fill the shoes of Houli....or Balta to come in for Astbury.

We on the other hand chop and change our structure each week. Here is the example.

We start round 1 with Cox + Mihocek (2 talls) + De Goey (who I'll call a pseudo-tall) and our defence had 4 talls in Roughead, Moore, Howe and Magden. That structure seemed to work well, and we played our best footy of the season.

Now let's fast forward to Round 6 vs Hawthorn - 3 talls. We had Cox + Kelly + Mihocek (no de goey). The system again worked pretty well.

Round 7 vs Geelong - 1 tall (Mihocek) + De Goey. Interestringly, down back we only had 2 key talls (dropping Scharenberg). Again, system worked ok, but it took De Goey to kick 5 of our 8 goals.

Round 8 - West Coast - 2 talls, Cameron and Mihocek, and in defence 3 talls (adding Scharenberg in).

Round 9 v Fremantle - Again the same 2 talls, with Magden coming in to replace Scharenberg. I don't consider them like for like and Magden is more a shut down defender, and Scharenberg an intercept marker.

Round 10 v Sydney - 3 talls, with Reid and Ruscoe coming in at the expense of Cameron.

Round 11 v Adelaide - 3 talls, but this time Cameron in for Reid.

Round 12 v Melbourne - 4 talls - Reid, Cameron, Mihocek and Ruscoe.


What we are seeing is far too much mucking around with our structure, with different personnel up there every week.

I don't mind making 5 changes, but i do mind if the structure is altered every week.

Personally, i think the best system is Mihocek + Cox/Cameron + De Goey as the pseudo-tall. With De Goey out, I think we should be turning to Stephenson to replicate the role, but we have moved him away from this role and mucked with his form.

Also, I think it is a big mistake to be playing Magden + Dunn/Roughead. These guys are full backs with little offensive power. For me, you need to bring in one of Scharenberg, Murphy or Keane as they act as intercept markers. Langdon probably resolves this problem when available. For now, I'd give Murphy a crack.

I think this week we should make as many changes as need be to get our best and preferred structure. That's the challenge for the selection committee. They need to decide what our best system is, and pick the best 22 to meet that system. After that, lock it in and make changes which accommodate the system.

If Buckley has not worked out his best structure after 9 years at the helm, then that is a huge problem. He should have some sort of idea of that by now.

A lot will ride on Mihocek's availability. If he is unavailable, the only other player on the list I can see who could do a similar role is Lynden Dunn. He has played as a forward before, is a similar height and build, and can aggressively attack packs. I sincerely hope we don't consider a forward line with Cox + Cameron. That again would be an entirely different system to what we have had to date. I'd also be putting Elliott forward again with the instruction to play as a small. We can't keep playing JT + Brown if they don't score.

I would be saying we go back to:

In: Cox, Murphy, Roughead, Rantall, Stephenson
Out: Cameron, Magden, Dunn, C. Brown, Reid.

I’d be dropping Thomas ahead of Reid and I think Madgen has done well and isn’t our problem.
 
I’d be dropping Thomas ahead of Reid and I think Madgen has done well and isn’t our problem.

Assume you mean Thomas ahead of Brown? I'm happy either way on that call...as long as 1 is dropped.

In terms of Magden, I don't mind him. But my issue is that he looks a full back to me, and I don't like the mix with he and Roughead...unless there is a 4th tall like Langdon who can also intercept. It worked in r1 when we still had Howe and we played the 4 key backs. It really allowed Moore and Howe to get really offensive with their positioning.
 
...

Mostly ourvselectors are the victims of poor list management and lack of depth

Injuries have exposed us.

Not defending the selectors because the heat is well deserved but our plan A for defensive structure turned to poo when we lost Howe with Langdon already out. We bat much deeper in the midfield than we do in defence or the forward line.

I'd argue that JDG was easier to replace role-wise as we had Elliot and WHE that could do a similar job in the forward line.
 
Injuries have exposed us.

Not defending the selectors because the heat is well deserved but our plan A for defensive structure turned to poo when we lost Howe with Langdon already out. We bat much deeper in the midfield than we do in defence or the forward line.

I'd argue that JDG was easier to replace role-wise as we had Elliot and WHE that could do a similar job in the forward line.

Oversight... I edited my post . Injuries obviously the issue. But it’s when you get injuries that depth and list decisions get exposed.

My personal opinion is they got too complacent expecting our awesome defence to generate enough drive to win us a premiership. Personally I think they should have been trying to utilise some of these good players upfield where they were really needed.... Crisp and Maynard in the middle, Moore forward etc

I know you shouldn’t rob Peter to pay Paul, but Paul is destitute.
 
The loss to Melbourne, and our form over the past 5 weeks, has obviously been very poor. To be honest, the result against Melbourne was probably not a surprise given the consecutive 4-5 day turnarounds, in 3 different states...and also factor in we have lost multiple players in games, which means lower rotations and more loading on players.

We now have an opportunity to take 9 days to reset and have a re-think about things. The loss in itself is not the reason for my frustration.

I've been a vocal critic of our selection for some time now. It's not multiple changes that frustrates me, its the multiple structures we throw out each week. It is not surprising that our form fluctuates when you have a different set-up each week, which in turn means a different system. If you play 1 key tall, you are asking your mids to lower the eyes and hit up targets. When you play 4 talls, you are telling them to bomb it in long to get a contest.

The benchmark is obviously Richmond. The thing they do well is replace one player with a like for like, so the system does not change. Sometimes, that means being a bit creative (ie they have thrown Bolton into the midfield to replace Edwardes, or bring in Eggmolesse- Smith to fill the shoes of Houli....or Balta to come in for Astbury.

We on the other hand chop and change our structure each week. Here is the example.

We start round 1 with Cox + Mihocek (2 talls) + De Goey (who I'll call a pseudo-tall) and our defence had 4 talls in Roughead, Moore, Howe and Magden. That structure seemed to work well, and we played our best footy of the season.

Now let's fast forward to Round 6 vs Hawthorn - 3 talls. We had Cox + Kelly + Mihocek (no de goey). The system again worked pretty well.

Round 7 vs Geelong - 1 tall (Mihocek) + De Goey. Interestringly, down back we only had 2 key talls (dropping Scharenberg). Again, system worked ok, but it took De Goey to kick 5 of our 8 goals.

Round 8 - West Coast - 2 talls, Cameron and Mihocek, and in defence 3 talls (adding Scharenberg in).

Round 9 v Fremantle - Again the same 2 talls, with Magden coming in to replace Scharenberg. I don't consider them like for like and Magden is more a shut down defender, and Scharenberg an intercept marker.

Round 10 v Sydney - 3 talls, with Reid and Ruscoe coming in at the expense of Cameron.

Round 11 v Adelaide - 3 talls, but this time Cameron in for Reid.

Round 12 v Melbourne - 4 talls - Reid, Cameron, Mihocek and Ruscoe.


What we are seeing is far too much mucking around with our structure, with different personnel up there every week.

I don't mind making 5 changes, but i do mind if the structure is altered every week.

Personally, i think the best system is Mihocek + Cox/Cameron + De Goey as the pseudo-tall. With De Goey out, I think we should be turning to Stephenson to replicate the role, but we have moved him away from this role and mucked with his form.

Also, I think it is a big mistake to be playing Magden + Dunn/Roughead. These guys are full backs with little offensive power. For me, you need to bring in one of Scharenberg, Murphy or Keane as they act as intercept markers. Langdon probably resolves this problem when available. For now, I'd give Murphy a crack.

I think this week we should make as many changes as need be to get our best and preferred structure. That's the challenge for the selection committee. They need to decide what our best system is, and pick the best 22 to meet that system. After that, lock it in and make changes which accommodate the system.

If Buckley has not worked out his best structure after 9 years at the helm, then that is a huge problem. He should have some sort of idea of that by now.

A lot will ride on Mihocek's availability. If he is unavailable, the only other player on the list I can see who could do a similar role is Lynden Dunn. He has played as a forward before, is a similar height and build, and can aggressively attack packs. I sincerely hope we don't consider a forward line with Cox + Cameron. That again would be an entirely different system to what we have had to date. I'd also be putting Elliott forward again with the instruction to play as a small. We can't keep playing JT + Brown if they don't score.

I would be saying we go back to:

In: Cox, Murphy, Roughead, Rantall, Stephenson
Out: Cameron, Magden, Dunn, C. Brown, Reid.
I’m not sure the forward line structure matters when you transition the ball the way we do. I think the decision to try and play a taller forward line was the right one considering what we had been throwing up earlier in the season.

I think teams are happy to sit players back in the hole against us and back their rebound against our rebound.

I thought we tried to be more offensive against Melbourne and got punished for it. although I hope we stick with it and see if we can better offensively because the defensive crab play is horrible to watch and not a good enough game style to beat the best teams.

If we fix our ball movement we’ll fix our forward line.

I’d start by not having 5 blokes within touching distance at every ground ball contest so when we do win it we’re in some space. So frustrating to watch the Melbourne players all seperate and every time they won it they had players loose everywhere on the outside. Our midfield needs to do a bit of social distancing from each other.
 
Oversight... I edited my post . Injuries obviously the issue. But it’s when you get injuries that depth and list decisions get exposed.

My personal opinion is they got too complacent expecting our awesome defence to generate enough drive to win us a premiership. Personally I think they should have been trying to utilise some of these good players upfield where they were really needed.... Crisp and Maynard in the middle, Moore forward etc

I know you shouldn’t rob Peter to pay Paul, but Paul is destitute.
Would love to see Crisp and Maynard up on the ball. Run, carry, penetrate, make teams start to worry about us more, we are playing the game on the other teams terms at the moment.
 

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The loss to Melbourne, and our form over the past 5 weeks, has obviously been very poor. To be honest, the result against Melbourne was probably not a surprise given the consecutive 4-5 day turnarounds, in 3 different states...and also factor in we have lost multiple players in games, which means lower rotations and more loading on players.

We now have an opportunity to take 9 days to reset and have a re-think about things. The loss in itself is not the reason for my frustration.

I've been a vocal critic of our selection for some time now. It's not multiple changes that frustrates me, its the multiple structures we throw out each week. It is not surprising that our form fluctuates when you have a different set-up each week, which in turn means a different system. If you play 1 key tall, you are asking your mids to lower the eyes and hit up targets. When you play 4 talls, you are telling them to bomb it in long to get a contest.

The benchmark is obviously Richmond. The thing they do well is replace one player with a like for like, so the system does not change. Sometimes, that means being a bit creative (ie they have thrown Bolton into the midfield to replace Edwardes, or bring in Eggmolesse- Smith to fill the shoes of Houli....or Balta to come in for Astbury.

We on the other hand chop and change our structure each week. Here is the example.

We start round 1 with Cox + Mihocek (2 talls) + De Goey (who I'll call a pseudo-tall) and our defence had 4 talls in Roughead, Moore, Howe and Magden. That structure seemed to work well, and we played our best footy of the season.

Now let's fast forward to Round 6 vs Hawthorn - 3 talls. We had Cox + Kelly + Mihocek (no de goey). The system again worked pretty well.

Round 7 vs Geelong - 1 tall (Mihocek) + De Goey. Interestringly, down back we only had 2 key talls (dropping Scharenberg). Again, system worked ok, but it took De Goey to kick 5 of our 8 goals.

Round 8 - West Coast - 2 talls, Cameron and Mihocek, and in defence 3 talls (adding Scharenberg in).

Round 9 v Fremantle - Again the same 2 talls, with Magden coming in to replace Scharenberg. I don't consider them like for like and Magden is more a shut down defender, and Scharenberg an intercept marker.

Round 10 v Sydney - 3 talls, with Reid and Ruscoe coming in at the expense of Cameron.

Round 11 v Adelaide - 3 talls, but this time Cameron in for Reid.

Round 12 v Melbourne - 4 talls - Reid, Cameron, Mihocek and Ruscoe.


What we are seeing is far too much mucking around with our structure, with different personnel up there every week.

I don't mind making 5 changes, but i do mind if the structure is altered every week.

Personally, i think the best system is Mihocek + Cox/Cameron + De Goey as the pseudo-tall. With De Goey out, I think we should be turning to Stephenson to replicate the role, but we have moved him away from this role and mucked with his form.

Also, I think it is a big mistake to be playing Magden + Dunn/Roughead. These guys are full backs with little offensive power. For me, you need to bring in one of Scharenberg, Murphy or Keane as they act as intercept markers. Langdon probably resolves this problem when available. For now, I'd give Murphy a crack.

I think this week we should make as many changes as need be to get our best and preferred structure. That's the challenge for the selection committee. They need to decide what our best system is, and pick the best 22 to meet that system. After that, lock it in and make changes which accommodate the system.

If Buckley has not worked out his best structure after 9 years at the helm, then that is a huge problem. He should have some sort of idea of that by now.

A lot will ride on Mihocek's availability. If he is unavailable, the only other player on the list I can see who could do a similar role is Lynden Dunn. He has played as a forward before, is a similar height and build, and can aggressively attack packs. I sincerely hope we don't consider a forward line with Cox + Cameron. That again would be an entirely different system to what we have had to date. I'd also be putting Elliott forward again with the instruction to play as a small. We can't keep playing JT + Brown if they don't score.

I would be saying we go back to:

In: Cox, Murphy, Roughead, Rantall, Stephenson
Out: Cameron, Magden, Dunn, C. Brown, Reid.

You mention Richmond and their depth players,
Maybe some VFL watchers can correct me there record the last 4 or so years has been impressive.
 
I'm interested in one or two classifications. Is Ruscoe a tall that does little or a medium that does little? The kid shouldnt even be in the team and his mother was right - he was selected because all the other players got injured. \

I'm also interested in lyndon dunn being a tall forward. How? Platform shoes? Jet pack? Dose of steroids over the next week? Why not play Wills as a tall forward? They are about the same size and I would back Wills on any athletic test against Dunn, save for skulling 10 middies. In fact, I would probably play JT as a tall forward ahead of Dunn.

As for Ruscoe retaining his spot because of his height..... I'd like to see him tell his mum that. "Yeh mum, I got selected again this week because I'm 1 cm taller than the next guy"
 
Would love to see Crisp and Maynard up on the ball. Run, carry, penetrate, make teams start to worry about us more, we are playing the game on the other teams terms at the moment.
I agree with Crisp but moving Maynard robs us of our most consistent small defender
 

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I'm interested in one or two classifications. Is Ruscoe a tall that does little or a medium that does little? The kid shouldnt even be in the team and his mother was right - he was selected because all the other players got injured. \

I'm also interested in lyndon dunn being a tall forward. How? Platform shoes? Jet pack? Dose of steroids over the next week? Why not play Wills as a tall forward? They are about the same size and I would back Wills on any athletic test against Dunn, save for skulling 10 middies. In fact, I would probably play JT as a tall forward ahead of Dunn.

As for Ruscoe retaining his spot because of his height..... I'd like to see him tell his mum that. "Yeh mum, I got selected again this week because I'm 1 cm taller than the next guy"

From what I understand, all of Ruscoe, Dunn and Mihocek are 192cm. I believe they are in the side to play as talls and provide aerial strength.

At the end of the day though, it's less about actual height, and more about how they play. Wills clearly plays as a midfielder, and has never shown any ability above his head.
 
I didnt say that he was good. Did you see Dunn "flying" for marks on the weekend?
You asked a question I answered why.
Dunn didn’t play as a key forward so it’s a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
 
From what I understand, all of Ruscoe, Dunn and Mihocek are 192cm. I believe they are in the side to play as talls and provide aerial strength.

At the end of the day though, it's less about actual height, and more about how they play. Wills clearly plays as a midfielder, and has never shown any ability above his head.

Has Ruscoe shown it... did Dunn show any ability overhead in the last two weeks? Don't answer that. We'll be here all day.
 
i was saying to play wills as a tall forward ahead of dunn. I would play JT as a tall forward ahead of Dunn...
Yeah I know what your saying, I’m disagreeing with you...
 
Has Ruscoe shown it... did Dunn show any ability overhead in the last two weeks? Don't answer that. We'll be here all day.
Again Dunn didn’t play up forward, his last two weeks are hardly relevant to his potential forward play.
 

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It's time to put some heat on the selection committee

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