Bluemour Melting Pot XXIII

[Blue Bloods]

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Bluemour Melting Pot XXII

Does it worry anyone else that the guys who are in the high priced free agency wars seem to have pretty crap years after their mega-deal is done? Coniglio and Grundy haven't exactly set the world alight this year. Kelly hasn't seemed to become the next amazing midfielder that everyone thought...

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Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

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Just like to thank Aphrodite and the other Carlton mods who started the Bluemours NON Discussion Thread and who have kept it free of chat over the past few years.

It helps so much when you just don't have the time to read through this thread, cheers and great job.

 

[DangerousD]

Those guys you mentioned are taking less then what they could get otherwise. There really isn’t too much you can do about it when you have half a dozen guys getting offered a million plus. You either lose some or you pay up.
If someone goes crazy next year and offers McKay $1.2mil (in today’s money) then what do we do? Back in a forward line with Curnow being the only decent tall or do we pay up? Not up to $1.2mil but do we do what GWS do and pay up to about that $900k mark? It’s so easy to get caught in their position imo and it’s easy to say you shouldn’t pay over X amount but the reality is you could lose Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Walsh etc if sides want to offer them stupid overs like we did for Shiel or Cogs for example.

Good points and the Hawks did lose Buddy, but why did the Hawks never lose Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Roughead? Do you think they never received offers of $250,000-$400,000 per year more than what they were on?

There needs to be a limit, did the cats ever lose anyone?

 

[The Greek Freak]

Good chance Stocker will be delisted.

Dow will be good but Stocker delisted

 

[chunkylover53]

Dodo apparently is coming under fair bit of pressure from within. No finals forever. Has been list boss over this duration. Some board members are getting itchy palms to draw the guillotine. Maybe he has an imperative this season to get things moving to calm the inner rumblings. The Danaher trade still wrankles with many re ego getting in the way of what was best for the club. Makes sense, two top 10 draft picks would be looking a great deal right now.

how he still has a job is beyond me.

i saw an essendon poster on the main board say he's got 3 years to turn it around.

3 years? seriously 3 years? he's had 19 years and failed miserably but you just want to give him another lazy 3? really different breed..

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Article this morning stated that Collingwood were after another lower draft pick this year.

What could we likely turn pick 8 (After probable Daniher Compo) into with them?

The 12 and 35 they have would be about 150pts premium on 7.
Depends on what we're trying to do though.
If we're a chance for a genuine A-grader then we might need 7+ whatever, not a lower pick.

 

[passmark]

Dodoro under pressure.

Let's hope they give him another draft/trade period. He might go for broke and make another pigs breakfast out of it.

 

[The Greek Freak]

No reason for Saad to our cost pick 25 (our second rounder or thereabouts).

Essendon got him from Gold Coast for a future 2nd rounder, Saad is three years older, our third rounder or future third rounder is more than enough.

Looool, take off the Blues glasses mate. He's twice the player now he was at GC, top 3 in their B&F every year he's been there. Easily Mid to late first or early second value.

 

[Beast__Mode]

As long as you can avoid having to deal with him, having Dodoro at Essendon is great for the competition.

speaking to a couple of people who are involved there, it’s an absolute mess - a top to bottom mess. Dysfunctional gets thrown around a lot as description but in this case from what I hear it’s exactly the situation there. I feel for those I know but not nearly enough to not be sincerely delighted at what a mess they’re in. Playing group not happy with each other, nor happy with the coaches, admin questioning each other, questioning footy dept, coteries think they know best (Sheeds!!)... a hot mess.

I can’t imagine Stocker being delisted. He needs a huge preseason, and he needs to establish himself into the 22 next year. It’ll be year 3 for him and time for him to show himself. I trust the coaching team will gift him nothing, in the long run he’ll appreciate it it more and be better off by earning his games. If he’s smart his preseason has already begun.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Does this spell the end of Cripps, Curnow and Setterfield as the overwhelmingly frequent midfield trio?

Need some variety in combinations:

Cripps, Curnow, Williams
Cripps, Setterfield, Williams
Cripps, Martin, Williams
Cripps, Walsh, Williams
Cripps, SPS, Williams
Setterfield, Curnow, Williams
Setterfield, Walsh, Williams
Setterfield, SPS, Williams
Setterfield, Martin, Williams
Curnow, Walsh, Williams
Curnow, SPS, Williams
Curnow, Martin, Williams

Throw in some Cuningham, Williamson and Fisher for extra flavour here and there.

It's Cunningham

 

[FRUMPY]

I was very interested to listen to Jordan Lewis a few days ago talking of not paying anyone over $800,000, spoke in regards to lots of players at the Hawks playing for less than they were worth in order to get success.

Do you see that with the Giants? Cameron has been over a Mill the last 2 years, we can only speculate what Cogs, Whitfield and Kelly are on but i think its safe to say its close to a Mill.

It does and clearly has a flow on affect, i love Greene and id happily pay him $800,000 but you need to be careful.

Hawthorn are very different thought - they won a flag before they were at their peak and alot of their players were either old and retiring soon or very young. With that early success and the young players coming through (stockpiled low draft picks who were guns), they knew they were destined for more success and therefor players could easily forego money for success knowing it was pretty certain.

Then if you are comparing to GWS, there is the raiding of GWS and GC from all other clubs, especially victorian clubs. Hawthorn didnt have to fight off losing Victorian Players to victorian clubs and pay overs to keep them. There is a massive disadvantage for these 2 new clubs in keeping players compared to established clubs and all Victoria clubs.

Then when the Hawks had their threepete a few things fell their way:
1. GC & GWS were introduced and drafts were compromised, meaning clubs below them struggled to get the high end draft talent to improve their lists and challenge the hawks
2. Free Agency was introduced and the hawks were the destination club. They could almost cherry pick what they needed to replace and deficiencies or retirements.

 

[chunkylover53]

Ability is there but Application, desire, personality, wanting it enough....big statement not coping with resort life in a hub.

when i was 20 tom stewart was a similar age and would play for his local club because he couldn't be ****ed taking footy seriously. he also used to be 'that' guy at 18th birthday parties where he'd always get drunk and cry. he also cried at 3QT in a school footy game once because he had 6 kicked on him and the guy was 'too good'.

now he's a multiple AA CHB.

some players take time to grow up.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Looool, take off the Blues glasses mate. He's twice the player now he was at GC, top 3 in their B&F every year he's been there. Easily Mid to late first or early second value.

Our future first could be the basis of deal?
Or base it off 27?

 

[RPCB]

It's Cunningham

But it will always be Newnes to BT.

 

[HARKER]

when i was 20 tom stewart was a similar age and would play for his local club because he couldn't be f’ed taking footy seriously. he also used to be 'that' guy at 18th birthday parties where he'd always get drunk and cry. he also cried at 3QT in a school footy game once because he had 6 kicked on him and the guy was 'too good'.

now he's a multiple AA CHB.

some players take time to grow up.

Good response.

Stocker has never come across to me as though he didn't want it. Not once and plenty have, including a couple we just delisted.
Whatever is currently holding him back has to be massaged out. That;s why we have Power and co

 

[Arr0w]

Expecting more delistings today

 

[FRUMPY]

Expecting more delistings today

If so, wouldnt they announce them all today rather than yesterday and today. Id be expecting more within a week or 2?

 

[Treesloth]

This is where SOS being steadfast in his beliefs is going to come in handy.

Instead of paying $300k+ to half a dozen blokes to marginally improve the team without much thinking we now have sufficient money to bring in 2-3 really stellar footballers to improve us significantly.

The only things I'm disappointed about is the Stocker discussion. It was nothing but praise in his first year. Now people are posting about him having a poor summer, his first off-season. I'd hope that he gets a chance to redeem himself. Not all kids get it immediately. The Sam Walsh's are few and far between - that's part of what makes those talents special. Heck, we have at least one mid-twenties player on the list who gets games who could learn the same lessons.

Well said.
Side note on the Stocker discussion - and this is a serious question - what is actually behind the ‘attitude’ narrative?

Has there actually been evidence to suggest he’s not applying himself, or is this something us supporters have just started running with for no real reason this season.

I have no issues with him having to leave the hub for personal reasons, just want to understand where it’s all coming from*

 

[Garters]

how he still has a job is beyond me.

i saw an essendon poster on the main board say he's got 3 years to turn it around.

3 years? seriously 3 years? he's had 19 years and failed miserably but you just want to give him another lazy 3? really different breed..

It is astounding.
How an additional 3 years tacked on is going to somehow achieve a different result is delusional thinking by them.

 

[cookie monster]

Pick 7 could be anything, given the lack of games to base it on. I don't think we quibble if we want to rise up the ladder quickly. Clearly we are missing pace and kicking skills going inside 50. A lot of our kicking issues are based on the fact we don't get up the ground fast enough to give our forwards an advantage.

I'd prefer to offer up 7 and our 2021 first for Josh Kelly but if we have promised Williams a midfield spot, we still need backline pace and a small forward. I'm through trying to convert midfielders into half backs.

Interesting point being made about the AFL's finances at the moment, apparently the loan taken out on Marvel is not enough to sustain the game.
If that's the case eand they're tightening the belts, I wonder if GWS's "marketing budget" is a victim and they're forced to move on a player like Josh Kelly to get back into the realms of what the AFL deems acceptable.

 

[HBF]

Anyone who complains about whatever Williams is going to get in $$$'s should never again say they want to get a free agent.

Because you get a free agent for free trade wise, the market for them is ALWAYS red hot, and hence they are well overpaid.

Accept that, or never again pretend you want a free agent.

Spot on TW. Well said.

 

[Countryblueswitnotattoos]

Hi all,

I'm celebrating Williams nominating Carlton with a name change (assuming mods approve)
It always bothered me that I ran out of characters and had to drop the 'H'. But with some of the silly McKay talk floating around here lately, that name simply had to go. Bad karma!

 

[The Greek Freak]

If so, wouldnt they announce them all today rather than yesterday and today. Id be expecting more within a week or 2?

Probably didn't get all the exit meetings done yesterday so will finish them off today and announce more names

 

[HBF]

So where can I find an uncontracted list?

There's some seriously talented players uncontracted that nobody is talking about. Andrew McGrath and Daicos are two who I can't believe aren't signed up already.

McGrath is an interesting one. Can't believe he's still OOC at this time of year.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Good points and the Hawks did lose Buddy, but why did the Hawks never lose Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Roughead? Do you think they never received offers of $250,000-$400,000 per year more than what they were on?

There needs to be a limit, did the avast ever lose anyone?

I’m sure Hawthorn have had plenty of guys take big unders but like Geelong who also would’ve had players taking unders, when someone came and offered stupid money to their best player both teams lost them. That has happened a hell of a lot to GWS. Cameron is probably the only one getting maximum dollars playing there and when he signed he was looking like being the clear best KPF in the league.
I also look at their list and it has been imo the most talented over the last 5 years. If they have had the most talented list for five years then considering they are spending the same amount as all the other sides then I think they have probably managed it as well as they could’ve.
As you say there needs to be a limit, teams like WC and Richmond pay their high end core huge amounts but they just have a smaller top end.

 

[HBF]

Just relax, we have the cash. Who are we to say what he is worth, if the club has them spend it!

This.
We can spend 105% of our salary cap, so we might as well utilise the advantage we have over some other clubs.

 

[Arr0w]

If so, wouldnt they announce them all today rather than yesterday and today. Id be expecting more within a week or 2?

Staggered interviews, staggered delistings

Most will happen this week

The rest after the trade and draft period