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News Kreuz appointed Ruck Coach

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Blues of 77 said:
Poor appointment that smacks of looking after past players rather than recruiting for expertise and experience. Typical Carlton, but not right for the club, nor Kruez.
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Anything but typical in recent times. But that said we have won several flags with past players in coaching.
Big Nick, Jezza, Wallsy, had no experience when given coaching roles. So I say your talking out your rear just to stir the pot.
 
Blues of 77 said:
For the club, we had Kruez there last year and the previous 10.
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Funny how much TDK improved this past year.


Blues of 77 said:
It's (almost) never been successful for a recently retired player to add anything for the club they've retired from.
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I can give you copious amounts of examples where the opposite holds true. For example, Daniel Giansiracusa moving from his role as a player into the Bulldogs forwards coach in 2015-16 where their dynamic forward line was pivotal to the club getting only their second ever premiership. Anthony Rocca was back at Collingwood after retiring in 2009 as an assistant coach (an unofficial role in 2010, an official assistant's role the following year) when the Pies won their last premiership and then lost only to Geelong the following year. Those are just two examples without doing any research.
 
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What is the club thinking???
How dare they just give “one of the boys” a job.
It’s not like he’s universally respected, bleeds blue, an outstanding person & a ****ing fantastic footballer. His ground skills & want for the ball were second to none.
It’s not like you learn more from people you respect & admire, especially when u have seen them work through difficulties & come out stronger.....
People like Kruez are what creates, defines & leads a “culture”, I could not be happier with this appointment 👍
 
Wickzki said:
Funny how much TDK improved this past year.




I can give you copious amounts of examples where the opposite holds true. For example, Daniel Giansiracusa moving from his role as a player into the Bulldogs forwards coach in 2015-16 where their dynamic forward line was pivotal to the club getting only their second ever premiership. Anthony Rocca was back at Collingwood after retiring in 2009 as an assistant coach (an unofficial role in 2010, an official assistant's role the following year) when the Pies won their last premiership and then lost only to Geelong the following year. Those are just two examples without doing any research.
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Pretty sure Ivan Maric retired in 2017 at Richmond and was appointed as ruck coach/played reserves and then was appointed as ruck coach - a position which he still holds.
"It's (almost) never been successful for a recently retired player to add anything for the club they've retired from. "

Be interested to hear from Blues of '77 as to how that recently retired ruck coach appointment turned out for the club that they retired from.
 

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Blues of 77 said:
Beautifully said and hard to avoid a tautology here. But I'm sure you understand the nepotistic connotation and the possible implications on our club of continuing to 'look after the old boys'.
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I get it. This needs to be looked at in the context of the current climate in AFL land.

Simmo and Kreuzer may have been good to go on for one more year, just like Betts and Murphy. Given the clubs knew that the AFL was going to reduce lists, maybe ... and this is just a thought bubble ... maybe the club knew it couldn't keep the core of the younger 'future' players together if all 4 of the senior players continued. One solution is to offer a couple of them coaching roles in a revamped set up, post COVID-19.

Betts stays on as a playing coach, keeping his contract out of the soft cap, Simmo and Kreuze go into early retirement with a new job to help offset the lost salary and Murphy gets a farewell tour and a chance at 300 ... and we keep every player we wanted to on the main list.

Maybe it is a little 'jobs for the boys' looking, might be a very good reason for it. We are looking after some great servants of the club, while keeping the future of the playing group secure. Two younger players get one more year, can live with that
 
I like this appointment because he wasn’t a great tap ruckman not a great leap not overly tall
He would have had to focus on the timing biomechanics subtle push pull for boundary throw ins
His ability to create space in the midfield offensively and close it defensively was his greatest asset
If he teaches Tom the art of the blitz run straight line keep the ball in front to cut a swathe of battered bodies in his wake it’s a success
Short steps feet close together stay agile on the boundary big strides stay grounded in the middle treat the midget midfielders with disdain
Tap rucking is important but midfield craft is where Tom could become a game changer
 
Maybe Both Kreuze and Simmo were considered to be well qualified for the positions that they have been appointed in. Maybe there is also the advantage of them having performed these type of roles unofficially towards the end of their playing careers and have the advantage of having well formed relationships with the people who they will be working with. Being an ex-player of the club shouldn't entitle anyone to a job at the club but it sure shouldn't disqualify them from being given a position either.

From what we know of these guys I'm sure that they have earned their positions, it's a bit insulting to them to assume otherwise.
 
BigFrizz36 said:
Pretty sure Ivan Maric retired in 2017 at Richmond and was appointed as ruck coach/played reserves and then was appointed as ruck coach - a position which he still holds.
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Spot on. Maric is almost the perfect comparison to Kreuzer, actually.

From Wikipedia:


en.wikipedia.org

Ivan Maric - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In 2017 Maric worked as a playing coach at Richmond, serving as ruck coach in addition to playing reserves football in the VFL. Upon announcing his retirement, Maric accepted a permanent off-field role at Richmond, as a player development and ruck coach.
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Brilliantly. And I'm really pleased that there are examples of where it has worked. But I think your research will show that the failures (or, in fairness, the lack of success) in an immediate coaching appointment at the same club post playing career, far outweigh the successes.

I still can't fully appreciate the reason as to why we wouldn't be seeking the best available ruck coach (and perhaps that is Kruez, but there's no evidence a proper process was implemented). And why Kruez wouldn't be seeking different experience in a different environment (to eventually bring that experience back to the Blues).

Having said all of that, I understand Jabba73's comments on impact on playing lists and salary / cost constraints possibly playing a role. Certainly tough times for any sporting club.

Regardless of my views on the appointment, I wish Kruez all the best and hope he does prove me wrong.
 
BigBreakfast said:
What would that criteria be? Clever articulation of perspective does not constitute an imperial, evidence based conclusion.

Evidence:

* played a significant career at the highest level against the best (189 over 12 years)
* time on the sideline afforded him the opportunity to grow and learn
* on ball capacity affords the opportunity to teach around the ground, contested style (averaged almost 7 contested possessions p/g)
* intelligent man who limits communication only to that which needs voicing.
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Empirical, damnit!

Like the post, though.
 
Blues of 77 said:
I still can't fully appreciate the reason as to why we wouldn't be seeking the best available ruck coach (and perhaps that is Kruez, but there's no evidence a proper process was implemented). And why Kruez wouldn't be seeking different experience in a different environment (to eventually bring that experience back to the Blues).
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This is a strange thing to say unless you actually have inside information for this particular case.

Given the club's track-record the last few years with clearly implementing good process in staff recruiting and actively seeking out the best people for each position (mostly non-Carlton people) and given that we largely have the same leadership and executive staff, why would you assume that process has changed simply because, in this case, the best candidate for a role was found to be a recently retired Carlton player?

I think we really need to give the club the benefit of the doubt here before we go screaming 'jobs for the boys' again.
 
I was happy with the development of TDK and Pitto this year. Both showed more than I expected, and Kreuz was apparently helping out with the coaching in the hub, after we shed a few of the assistants.

Maybe he proved his coaching chops already. Enough anyway to get a year to continue in the role.
 
Blues of 77 said:
Brilliantly. And I'm really pleased that there are examples of where it has worked. But I think your research will show that the failures (or, in fairness, the lack of success) in an immediate coaching appointment at the same club post playing career, far outweigh the successes.
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I think you'll find that holds true in an AFL context anyway, though. The success condition of an AFL club/team is a flag, not anything else; it's an irony of the competition that for all that success is lionized there's only 1 in 18 (or 16, or 12, or whatever) chance at actually succeeding in any given year.

I don't mind the appointment, while I'm a bit skeptical about it. It's good to keep another Carlton person around and Kruezer (and Simpson) are both extremely well respected, but it's not an easy thing to coach players you've played with in an AFL context, and it's difficult to see where new ideas are going to come from if we continuously hire from within.

I do like Jabba73's idea, though. Makes sense from a list management/transition perspective, and if it works awesome.
 

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RedFury said:
This is a strange thing to say unless you actually have inside information for this particular case.

Given the club's track-record the last few years with clearly implementing good process in staff recruiting and actively seeking out the best people for each position (mostly non-Carlton people) and given that we largely have the same leadership and executive staff, why would you assume that process has changed simply because, in this case, the best candidate for a role was found to be a recently retired Carlton player?

I think we really need to give the club the benefit of the doubt here before we go screaming 'jobs for the boys' again.
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Especially given that we've kind of avoided giving 'jobs for the boys' positions all the way through this rebuild. Didn't go for a big name CEO in Trigg or Liddle, went for what we needed in the moment; didn't go for Lethlean, despite AFL house pushing him for the position.

It's only very recently - with these two appointments and Teague becoming head coach - that someone could make that accusation. I don't think it holds much weight, really.
 
Blues of 77 said:
Brilliantly. And I'm really pleased that there are examples of where it has worked. But I think your research will show that the failures (or, in fairness, the lack of success) in an immediate coaching appointment at the same club post playing career, far outweigh the successes.

I still can't fully appreciate the reason as to why we wouldn't be seeking the best available ruck coach (and perhaps that is Kruez, but there's no evidence a proper process was implemented). And why Kruez wouldn't be seeking different experience in a different environment (to eventually bring that experience back to the Blues).

Having said all of that, I understand Jabba73's comments on impact on playing lists and salary / cost constraints possibly playing a role. Certainly tough times for any sporting club.

Regardless of my views on the appointment, I wish Kruez all the best and hope he does prove me wrong.
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Fair response. 77 your thoughts on Simmo's appointment in view of his zero history as a woman please.
 
Blues of 77 said:
Poor appointment that smacks of looking after past players rather than recruiting for expertise and experience. Typical Carlton, but not right for the club, nor Kruez.
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Don’t underestimate looking after your own, keep that club feel instead of a corporation type...people will want to stay and people will want to come.

Plus his a legend.
 

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Don't worry about whether he was elite tap ruck or not. He mightn't have always been the best tap ruck but it's easy to forget on his day he could have some devastating taps to advantage, a game against Collingwood comes to mind years back where he gave our mids an armchair ride and was looking to hit his peak form... and then of course got injured again, story of his career. :(

Still that's not even really the point. My old man successfully coached a grammar school swimming team decades back... and guess what, the guy himself can't actually swim!
In a similar vein the likes of Clarkson, Malthouse etc weren't exactly elite football players.

Sometimes coaching, knowledge etc and gameday ability/application are worlds apart. Kreuze might end up the best ruck coach we've had in ages for all we know.

Give him a chance, but also, it is just so fantastic to see him still sticking around in Navy Blue in some capacity. Love ya Tractor.
 
El Topo said:
For all the talk of nepotism, jobs for the boys ect, it's reassuring that the two core players of our past decade who aren't divas and/or flakes are the ones the club has elected to keep around
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And the two least likely to have sought such a position by flaunting their own virtues in an egocentric way.
 
Love this news..stoked he'll be with us next year. Obviously he would be, just hope he's a little more vocal compared to the Kreuz we see when there's cameras around.

I can't remember which player said it but I remember hearing that Kreuz is the type of bloke who doesn't say much but when he does, everyone listens. I 110% believe that is true.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
HARKER said:
Ever watched Kreuzer train? He's not a loser......anything but a loser. :)

Just because Kreuzer wasn't he best tap ruckman himself, doesn't mean to say he doesn't know what's required.

No need to worry. This is a good appointment by the club.
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Simpson and Kreuzer are statistically some of the biggest losers in afl history. We need the young players learning from and emulating WINNERS. This is a big mistake by the club at such a critical stage of development.
 
Brackets said:
Honestly would prefer to see us mix it up and bring in new names, although in part we're presumably looking after he and Simmo post career.
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Yeah I though it was be interesting to see how the club went without Gibbs, Murphy, Simo and Kruez, although champions of the club, have seen a lot of losing.
 

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News Kreuz appointed Ruck Coach

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