-
Mobile App Discontinued
Due to a number of factors, support for the current BigFooty mobile app has been discontinued. Your BigFooty login will no longer work on the Tapatalk or the BigFooty App - which is based on Tapatalk.
Apologies for any inconvenience. We will try to find a replacement.
Are we seriously that bad!!
- Thread starter Dyson_is_da_best
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
Why would you play Lloyd at CHF, when you already have one of the best in the league there already and would be moving the best FF in the game.
Lloyd will be fine and had been out of the game for almost a year.If he kicked straight it would have been 4 goals.
Our problem in the forward line is not Lloyd, but one of the frauds in our team.
In fairness to Johns, even though he had a poor game, much of it wasnt directly his fault. We simply looked for Lucas too much (who copped a bath from Waite) and hence were predictable.
In of the few times Johns was the direct target, it wasnt the greatest kick and he was out of position, yet got back into the contest well, caused the spill which Monfries (I think) picked up and gave it to the running Hille for a goal.
No stats there for him, but he did well. The forward line is going to take some time to gel, plus the delivery wasnt great on Saturday. Give them a bit more time.
I'm more concerned with Hille, yet another useless Ruck game from him, but Im used to that, what worries me is that he looks to have bulked up for some ungodly reason - he looks even slower than usual. And that is against a team who hardly has a ruck division. Laycock showed a little in the tap department, but he is going to need at least half a dozen to 10 straight games before we can get a proper guage on him.
If threads like this start after a practise match, a few here are going to be slitting wrists come round 1, when we get bent over in Adelaide yet again.
In of the few times Johns was the direct target, it wasnt the greatest kick and he was out of position, yet got back into the contest well, caused the spill which Monfries (I think) picked up and gave it to the running Hille for a goal.
No stats there for him, but he did well. The forward line is going to take some time to gel, plus the delivery wasnt great on Saturday. Give them a bit more time.
I'm more concerned with Hille, yet another useless Ruck game from him, but Im used to that, what worries me is that he looks to have bulked up for some ungodly reason - he looks even slower than usual. And that is against a team who hardly has a ruck division. Laycock showed a little in the tap department, but he is going to need at least half a dozen to 10 straight games before we can get a proper guage on him.
If threads like this start after a practise match, a few here are going to be slitting wrists come round 1, when we get bent over in Adelaide yet again.
- May 8, 2006
- 13,700
- 11,444
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- NYJ
Thats crap.....I took great interest in every centre bounce against Carlton and now believe the ruck contest in the middle is irrelevent. The tiny run-ups they have now gives nobody a chance to clearly tap the ball (unless you're a sandilands and tower over your opponant) and its now up to the ruck rovers to fight and win the ball. It drops anywhere now,so the RR's in the middle have to be even more on their game to win the first touch(as Hirdy does so beautifully).
Hille played alright imo. Presented well at times and looks in the best shape of his short career so far.
So much negative "just shoot me" attitudes coming from one pre=season match.....unbelievable
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
Pretty much spot on.
The more I see of Johns the more I think that he can only play one position - FF. Maybe there's not enough room in the one side for the three forwards, 2 ruckman and Kepler Bradley.
Interesting times. We really need a few players with surgical precision kicking to step up ( Dyson/Nash/Cole ? ).
We also need some smart footballers to step up. Who are they?
DaSawx
Brownlow Medallist
Jetta will be a very smart footballer, unfortunately he's a while off.
JJ and Heff will add some ball-winning, accountability and foot skill to the midfield, would love for Nash to step it up soon.
JJ and Heff will add some ball-winning, accountability and foot skill to the midfield, would love for Nash to step it up soon.
Thats crap.....I took great interest in every centre bounce against Carlton and now believe the ruck contest in the middle is irrelevent. The tiny run-ups they have now gives nobody a chance to clearly tap the ball (unless you're a sandilands and tower over your opponant) and its now up to the ruck rovers to fight and win the ball. It drops anywhere now,so the RR's in the middle have to be even more on their game to win the first touch(as Hirdy does so beautifully).
Hille played alright imo. Presented well at times and looks in the best shape of his short career so far.
So much negative "just shoot me" attitudes coming from one pre=season match.....unbelievable
Geez, of course that happened in the weekends game - neither side had a dominant ruckman whatsoever. All stale-mates, which causes the mess in the middle. Unfortunately, Stale-mates seem to be the best return we can expect from Hille. He very rarely dominates at all, no matter who he is up against. Laycock actually had a few clear taps which was encouraging, but he is way too underdone to start guaging him yet.
Interestingly, Voss on ten during the Geel-Rich game actually spoke about centre clearances, the various defensive formations used for when getting beaten and the positioning around the ruckman depending on how he is going. If you niavely think its all about a scrappy fight you are sadly mistaken.
And Ive hardly been 'negative' after this game - I predicted it would go down to the wire in a thread on the main board, and the game ended up pretty much as I expected. We always have great battles with that mob, who on paper always seem weaker than us.
So, your solution for Johns would be??
I wouldnt imagine many more senior players get turned over aside from Bolton, Pev, Campo or Heff. Might be detrimental if we're talking team stability.
I cant work out this multi quote crap!
I'm not sure that John's is good enough to play AFL at any other position other than FF.
Whether he could even make it at that position is still doubtful.
But i would never move Lloyd to CHF as you suggested just to fit Johns into the team.
Lloyd is the best or second best FF in the game, Johns has to force him out of his spot with top form, or learn to play another spot.
Not the other way around.
- May 8, 2006
- 13,700
- 11,444
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- NYJ
Are we really that bad? No we're not.
Lets have a hypothetical look at the team if we chop/drop/delist or axe the EFC players sooooooooo many Bomber fans want burnt at the stake...atm.
Lets get rid of....the so called duds that lots of folks are calling to be chopped in this very,very early part of the season (well,the season hasn't actually started has it?)
C.Johns
Camporeale
Cole
Heff
Mcphee
Pev
Winderlich
Welsh
Kepler
Hille
Laycock
and Bolton...
After we get rid of those hacks we have this bunch of footballers left....
We got......
Slattery,Nash,Dyson,Dempsey,Lee,Ryder,Jetta,Gumby,Houli,Davey,Hislop,
Riemers,Chartres,D*ck and Lonergan.
Not a bad replacement bunch hey?,and compare it to the choices we had in say 2004 we seem to be in pretty good shape this year and the next and we have more of a chance than a few years back to improve our list and develope our young players and replace retiring ones and the de-listings that will inevitably happen.
2004 2nd raters..
Cupido,Murphy,Reynolds,Davies,Walsh,Bullen,Hunt,Cartledge,Henneman,Teddy,Alvey and Ben Haines!.....everyone of them are gone.
Question is...would you rather have the 2007 list (including our "duds") or the "going nowhere" crap 2004 list of players?
And,if you still want a Welsh or Kepler sent to Bendigo,which very young player are you gunna replace him with in the position he plays?
The young guns might be talented,but experience counts.
The point is....we need our Welshies and Keplers and Johns and McPhees to help out the senior stars (Lucas,Lloyd,Hird,JJ,MJ,McViegh etc...Monfries is almost in that group) and get better as a team.
We have no other choice. Its what we have to work with atm. No use whining about players who are not playing perfect every week.
The weak and deficient will be weeded out,they always are...
Lets have a hypothetical look at the team if we chop/drop/delist or axe the EFC players sooooooooo many Bomber fans want burnt at the stake...atm.
Lets get rid of....the so called duds that lots of folks are calling to be chopped in this very,very early part of the season (well,the season hasn't actually started has it?)
C.Johns
Camporeale
Cole
Heff
Mcphee
Pev
Winderlich
Welsh
Kepler
Hille
Laycock
and Bolton...
After we get rid of those hacks we have this bunch of footballers left....
We got......
Slattery,Nash,Dyson,Dempsey,Lee,Ryder,Jetta,Gumby,Houli,Davey,Hislop,
Riemers,Chartres,D*ck and Lonergan.
Not a bad replacement bunch hey?,and compare it to the choices we had in say 2004 we seem to be in pretty good shape this year and the next and we have more of a chance than a few years back to improve our list and develope our young players and replace retiring ones and the de-listings that will inevitably happen.
2004 2nd raters..
Cupido,Murphy,Reynolds,Davies,Walsh,Bullen,Hunt,Cartledge,Henneman,Teddy,Alvey and Ben Haines!.....everyone of them are gone.
Question is...would you rather have the 2007 list (including our "duds") or the "going nowhere" crap 2004 list of players?
And,if you still want a Welsh or Kepler sent to Bendigo,which very young player are you gunna replace him with in the position he plays?
The young guns might be talented,but experience counts.
The point is....we need our Welshies and Keplers and Johns and McPhees to help out the senior stars (Lucas,Lloyd,Hird,JJ,MJ,McViegh etc...Monfries is almost in that group) and get better as a team.
We have no other choice. Its what we have to work with atm. No use whining about players who are not playing perfect every week.
The weak and deficient will be weeded out,they always are...
ant555
The Oracle
- May 4, 2004
- 40,092
- 63,796
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- Penrith Panthers
So Johns after only 13 games is a write off despite the fact that this will be the first time he heads into a year of footy with a full pre season under his belt. He has some work to do on his game but maybe some people can possibly let him have some time now he is fit to develop.
Merv Neagle said:
Merv , what do you want the club to be saying ?
News from the Bombers. We are crap. Dont bother signing up for a membership this year as we suck.
As for the players stating we will play finals, well i would expect that. I sure as hell hope they are not heading into the season with their sights set on 13th place.
Merv Neagle said:
Agree we dished up a fair bit of rubbish on saturday. People seem to be reacting a lot worse because it was against Carlton. Maybe people have to stop and think that maybe things can and will start turning around for the Blues. Four years of drafting from the pointy end of the draft is going to start paying off for them. They have pretty much sorted out their off field problems for now and currently they are pretty posative as a club.The players seeing all the new gym equipment arriving,the rooms being freshly painted and club employess with a smile on their faces as they have been told not to worry about the financial side anymore, would be feeling a massive posative vibe. Im not surprised at all that they came out and played well.
Merv Neagle said:
Hard decision have been made for a few years and no doubt will be again this year. There are a few more guys who have to go but in saying that some patience is now needed while the blokes we have picked up in the last few years develop.
That is a fair point and i maybe judging him harshly.
I think the biggest problem is that he has been hailed as a superstar in the making.
Granted it's more the supporters using the superstar tag, but Sheedy himself, along with other at the club, have labelled him as a very good player in the making.
He really does seem 1 dimensional with virtually no recovery, and to my eyes a real front runner.Give him a little space and front possy and he looks good, put some one good on him, or a high pressure game and hes no where to be seen.
You might be right, and as you do attend training, you have seen way more of him than me.I will keep my thoughts on him to myself for now, and i hope you right and he can produce the goods after a pre season this year.
Well one thing i dont want to hear is that we were the best team EVER to finish in 15th place.I also don't want to hear players declaring we WILL make the finals.
I would prefer to hear how we are working on becoming a competitive team again. I heard G.O'donnel sum it up prefectly.
When asked how he thought we would go, he answered that this season needs to be about earning respect again.
Starting to win some games and get that winning culture back into the club.
I take your point about promoting the club from a membership point of view, but i don't like to hear players declaring we WILL make the finals.
It also gives the opposition just a little bit more ammo.
I agree that Carlton are on the improve, in theory, but until they actually prove it they are still the wooden spooners of last year.
My biggest dispointment as i have stated is that we saw the same things from the same players.This is not what you want to see if you are to improve, especially after a full pre season.
Maybe i have judged harshly, i will concede that for now, and keep my comments to myself.
For the record, i picked us to finish 10th and have not written our season off and stated we can still finish there, but we have a lot of work to do
Anyone know where I could find the stats??
lol.
ant555
The Oracle
- May 4, 2004
- 40,092
- 63,796
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- Penrith Panthers
Funny thing Merv is we both seem to think that the Bombers will finish in around the same place on the ladder this year despite or different views.
Dont keep your comments to yourself , i think we have both said what we wanted to say without resorting to too much petty arguing. This is what big footy should be about
John's really has to be put in perspective.
He has played 13 games! How many 6'4 nearly 100kg players look like world beaters after 13 games?
To put it in perspective, Roughhead has played 36 games, Franklin 34 and Buddy is the only one who really looks like he is taking that next level at this stage.
Thats not even taking into consideration the injuries and lack of training which has plagued Johns.
Let's see how he is after 40 odd CONSISTENT games before we judge too harshly.
He has played 13 games! How many 6'4 nearly 100kg players look like world beaters after 13 games?
To put it in perspective, Roughhead has played 36 games, Franklin 34 and Buddy is the only one who really looks like he is taking that next level at this stage.
Thats not even taking into consideration the injuries and lack of training which has plagued Johns.
Let's see how he is after 40 odd CONSISTENT games before we judge too harshly.
DaSawx
Brownlow Medallist
Lets not forget his is big, quite quick, is a good lead and can take a contested mark, plus all the other first pre-season yada yada stuff.
To write him off after a NAB Cup game is bloody stupid, especially when the delivery was poor and the fact he has hardly ever played with Lloydy.
To write him off after a NAB Cup game is bloody stupid, especially when the delivery was poor and the fact he has hardly ever played with Lloydy.
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
foj1
Cancelled
- Oct 25, 2005
- 4,325
- 3,188
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- essendon
I dont think anyone should be arguing about the talent of any of our footballers. What I think is pertinant is we dont seem to have a system which is going to allow Lloyd, Lucas, Hird and Johns play in the same forward line.
The problems are:
a) We move the ball way too slowly
b) The modern athletes are so fit that they crowd opposition forward lines which leave little room for leads
c) Our mids are not A+ kicks of the footy which leading players require
d) Lloyd, Lucas and Johns are all ordinary below their knees
e) Lloyd, Lucas, Hird and Johns do not have the athletic ability or inclination to chase their opponents when they run off them
Coutney Johns would be a very handy player at WC because of their great midfielders and he would only be competing with Lynch for the ball.
I honestly think you can only carry two slow players in a forward and Lloyd and either Lucas or Hird are far better players than Johns at this stage.
I would like to see Lucas spend time at CHB because he quickens up our fwd line and he is one of our A+ kicks. (at least on his left foot!)
foj1
Cancelled
- Oct 25, 2005
- 4,325
- 3,188
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- essendon
Thats interesting because I have always believed that his ball handling has been one of the biggest factors in preventing him from being a great CHF.
How would you set up our forward line Longy?
I suspect it is going to be a big challenge for this year.
The forward line working together is an extention of the overall problem of the team needing time to gel together.
So much has changed turnover-wise in the past 2 years, it's going to take time. Same goes for the backline, and midfield.
Our movement into the forward line was so poor, it was just about impossible to make a judgement on the forward line from the weekend game alone. Our forward line was bagged to buggary last season, yet ended up the highest scoring team outside the 8. Was it really the forward line being so bad, or was the forward line taking the heat from a poor midfield?
My feel is that 2008 may be our year to REALLY march up the ladder, not this season. By then, we will have an incredible blend of youth and experience. This year, it is all about playing as a team, and ensuring team rules and plays come together.
Again with Saturday night, guys like Lloyd, MM, Winda, Cole, Ryder, Davey, Houli, Lovett & to a lesser extent Johns were all given heaps of gametime, yet saw very little senior game time for us last season, or had their first hitout from injuries. It was nearly half the on-ground team for a fair bit of the game - can't expect them to gel straight away. It will take time.
Fact is Carlton is in front of us, team-wise. By that I mean they have kept their team together as one for longer than us at this very minute, and as a result seem a lot more settled.
I wouldnt be suprised at all if we seem to "click" overnight sometime this season, it often happens like that.
So much has changed turnover-wise in the past 2 years, it's going to take time. Same goes for the backline, and midfield.
Our movement into the forward line was so poor, it was just about impossible to make a judgement on the forward line from the weekend game alone. Our forward line was bagged to buggary last season, yet ended up the highest scoring team outside the 8. Was it really the forward line being so bad, or was the forward line taking the heat from a poor midfield?
My feel is that 2008 may be our year to REALLY march up the ladder, not this season. By then, we will have an incredible blend of youth and experience. This year, it is all about playing as a team, and ensuring team rules and plays come together.
Again with Saturday night, guys like Lloyd, MM, Winda, Cole, Ryder, Davey, Houli, Lovett & to a lesser extent Johns were all given heaps of gametime, yet saw very little senior game time for us last season, or had their first hitout from injuries. It was nearly half the on-ground team for a fair bit of the game - can't expect them to gel straight away. It will take time.
Fact is Carlton is in front of us, team-wise. By that I mean they have kept their team together as one for longer than us at this very minute, and as a result seem a lot more settled.
I wouldnt be suprised at all if we seem to "click" overnight sometime this season, it often happens like that.
IMO the only thing preventing him from being a great CHF is that we've had a very good CHF and Lloyd is a superstar FF. Not broken, don't fix it etc.
I think Lloyd, Lucas, Johns can work.
I think Lloyd, Lucas, Hird can work.
I don't think all four works. I think Johns can play behind Lloyd in the Gehrig role. I'd play Mark Johnson or Mark McVeigh across half forward and I think Davey has proven he could be vital.
I think the way the game works these days any team can be made to look slow down forward if the ball is turned over quickly. Our half-back line made Carlton look slow on the rebound.
I think we need to play our half-forward line higher, almost flood the midfield. It worked against West Coast, it worked against the Dogs. We did lose those games, but we also played very good football. We did similar things against Collingwood and we did it for a lot of 2000.
The Lucas, Lloyd, Johns experiment has to be given time to work. I think it can, but getting the mix right across half forward and in the middle is important.
DaSawx
Brownlow Medallist
It's definately worth sticking too IMO. Apart from Lloyd, Lucas, Hird and Monfries he's our best chance at kicking 25 goals, especially since Lovett will spend time further up the ground and Hirdy won't be back next year, Davey has been exciting but I expect him to be a bit up and down this year.
Ross Lyon believes you need 5 players kicking 20+ goals and I agree with him, especially since Lloydy'd days of 90-100 goals are probably over.
Hirdy won't be in the F50 every second of every game and I don't think Johns is even that bad at chasing and tackling once the ball is on the ground, I know Lloydy isn't. IMO we should keep at it and keep going for the tough match ups on talls while rotating Davey, Monfries, Lovett ect through the F50 as well, one poor game in the NAB with a poor game from the midfield shouldn't put us off it straight away, there is a lot of potential.
Ross Lyon believes you need 5 players kicking 20+ goals and I agree with him, especially since Lloydy'd days of 90-100 goals are probably over.
Hirdy won't be in the F50 every second of every game and I don't think Johns is even that bad at chasing and tackling once the ball is on the ground, I know Lloydy isn't. IMO we should keep at it and keep going for the tough match ups on talls while rotating Davey, Monfries, Lovett ect through the F50 as well, one poor game in the NAB with a poor game from the midfield shouldn't put us off it straight away, there is a lot of potential.