NO TROLLS Transgender Discrimination AFL Lawsuit

[Fryman]

Especially if they identify as 11

I have now decided that age and how old you are, are two separate things.

Your biological age is how many years you have been alive, but how old you are is the age you identify with.

It is discrimination to point out if someone’s age differs from how old they identify as.


Oh, you want science behind my decision...

 

[HairyO]

The follow on point is that any 'distinct advantage' is gone by the time athletes hit the current testosterone requirements set by the AFL, if they get to that level of competition within the guidelines, they're just a good footballer

Is that what the science says? Someone who was male until their early 20s spends a year having their testosterone lowered and then they have no advantage over women?

 

[RAPPA]

Is that what the science says? Someone who was male until their early 20s spends a year having their testosterone lowered and then they have no advantage over women?

I find that far fetched but that’s a layman’s opinion. If someone who was a muscular 25 year old male, subsequently transitions, do they not retain the advantage of the muscular growth and development they encountered as a male?

 

[FreeTK]

Is that what the science says? Someone who was male until their early 20s spends a year having their testosterone lowered and then they have no advantage over women?

Don’t some women have athletic advantages over other women, even if they did not have male puberty?

Some women’s basketballers are taller than others, that is a competitive advantage in that sport.

Some women have more testosterone than others, which by your own post is a competitive advantage.



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[burge13]

I find that far fetched but that’s a layman’s opinion. If someone who was a muscular 25 year old male, subsequently transitions, do they not retain the advantage of the muscular growth and development they encountered as a male?

Obviously they do

 

[TheKITC]

Thanks for taking my questions and comments out of context to promote your incorrect agenda.

I've been responding to people using Hannah Mouncey as an example as to why they shouldn't due to her size--- ignoring the fact that many of these people either don't know that Hannah's already been playing with many of the AFLW players or that she had done it safely for years.

I cannot speak for the conversations you are having with other people... You quoted me and asked if she has hurt anyone. It was a very small portion of the points I was trying to make that she has a significant size advantage due to her biological male, developed body. How come you are only interested in the injury factor and not everything else I was speaking on?

Who's to say the next Hannah Mouncey won't be someone who does injure the other players due to their advantages? That Hannah is not very good at footy or effective at using her extreme size advantage is really not that pertinent as it's only one example.

 

[burge13]

I have now decided that age and how old you are, are two separate things.

Your biological age is how many years you have been alive, but how old you are is the age you identify with.

It is discrimination to point out if someone’s age differs from how old they identify as.


Oh, you want science behind my decision...

Science and logic has no place in this discussion. Good luck in the u11s this season. B&F a real chance if you work hard

 

[HairyO]

Don’t some women have athletic advantages over other women, even if they did not have male puberty?

Some women’s basketballers are taller than others, that is a competitive advantage in that sport.

Some women have more testosterone than others, which by your own post is a competitive advantage.



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Sure, but the ones who get that advantage artificially get caught and banned.

No issue with the ones who have a natural advantage.

 

[Suspense]

She has testicles, the ability to produce sperm and father a child. That makes her biologically male. The gametes determine biological sex, not whether or not she has a vagina.

My point is that she is not transgender.

Transgender is a term used to describe people whose gender identity differs from the sex they were assigned at birth.

Caster's sex assigned at birth was female - which is the same as her gender identity.

While you are correct wrt scientific view of biological sex, I'd estimate that most of society largely classifies one's biological sex via primary sexual intercourse organs (ala Biological Professor Bazil Zemplis). Look already at the multitude of references to penises/vaginas ITT.

 

[Bombermania]

Gender isn't just a construct.

It's also biological.

Gender is just the social construct of the roles of biological sex and gender identity.

 

[FreeTK]

Isn’t being born a certain way the very definition of natural?


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[Chubberson]

Just give them thier own league ffs. It clearly is a complex issue. A men's league, a woman's league and a trans league. Problem solved. AFL, AFLW and AFLQT

 

[Power Raid]

But women are excluded from men’s sport, and vice versa.

Interestingly no one has flagged the option that we do away with men’s and women’s sports, and purely base it on ability. You’d end up with a fair bit of gender separation anyway, but if women were good enough to get a run with the boys, good on em. Then trans wouldn’t be an issue. Separate pay rates also would no longer be an issue. You could say it’s unfair because women are less athletic but that’s no more unfair than the fact that some people are just taller, faster, more skilful than others.

women can play in men's sport

 

[Power Raid]

Who is creating unwanted blacks and Christians leagues. Is this your fantasy world?

they are all governed under the same legal protection for the same reason

so completely relevant to highlight when some are calling for segregation and making cruel suggestions

 

[Bombermania]

So I've asked this earlier in this thread and no one was able to provide me an answer:

Tell me about all the injuries that Hannah Mouncey has caused playing for The Darebin Falcons in the VFLW and for Ainslie in Canberra?

It isn't simply about the risk of injury but the potential advantage that comes from being a biological man and that is why women's sports have testosterone limits.

But on the question of injuries. A big bodied transperson is someone you would want on your team because that person will have bigger body mass and would be ideal for throwing their body around because it isn't just about causing injury but about creating an advantage for your own side.

We see this in men's footy with many people pointing to Essendon's lack of a big bodied mid.

 

[Chubberson]

women can play in men's sport

In which full contact sports do women compete against men? They don't.

 

[juss]

So if the worry is a competitive advantage, have you actually seen Hannah play? Is she easily dismantling opposition teams because of her 'distinct advantage'?

Its not about one example today, its about this precedent changing the league for decades to come. Foresight and future risk is a really important consideration here.

 

[Power Raid]

In which full contact sports do women compete against men? They don't.

don't vs can't are very different things

one is capability and the other is discrimination

 

[Chubberson]

don't vs can't are very different things

one is capability and the other is discrimination

My question was, in which full contact sports do Women compete against Men?

Has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with fairness and safety.

 

[Power Raid]

My question was, in which full contact sports do Women compete against Men?

Has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with fairness and safety.

go back and read my position on the issue

 

[Fryman]

David Reimer
David Reimer
David Reimer
David Reimer

Hey PMBangers , why did you like this post?

Do you know the tragic story of David Reimer and Dr John Money (the man attributed with really pushing the gender/biological sex divide)?

 

[TheKITC]

In which full contact sports do women compete against men? They don't.

There is really only equestrian at the Olympics that is open to both genders and that obviously involves a huge, powerful animal as a large portion of the sport. We have non-physical sports like Poker and Chess for example that are also open, but not all that relevant in this discussion.

It doesn't happen for good reason. As a mentioned earlier, a cursory glance at Olympic and world records shows how big the gap is between the genders at the elite end specifically. The marathon for example has a discrepancy of 14 minutes between and men and women's records. 14 minutes.

don't vs can't are very different things

one is capability and the other is discrimination

What sport can you think of that women would qualify or be good enough to compete with men in an open field? Simply put, there would generally be thousands and thousands of men ahead of even the best woman in most, if not all sports and disciplines, due to the vast advantages that biological men enjoy over biological women.

For example, someone posted earlier when referencing the women's 100m sprint, that in England alone there were more than 60 something young males in the under 16 category that ran faster times than the current female world record. I'm paraphrasing the numbers there, but there would be 10s of thousands of men ahead of even the best woman in the 100m. I know two or three people myself that have run faster than the woman's world record... It's a huge gap.

 

[Power Raid]

What sport can you think of that women would qualify or be good enough to compete with men in an open field? Simply put, there would generally be thousands and thousands of men ahead of even the best woman in most, if not all sports and disciplines, due to the vast advantages that biological men enjoy over biological women.

For example, someone posted earlier when referencing the women's 100m sprint, that in England alone there were more than 60 something young males in the under 16 category that ran faster times than the current female world record. I'm paraphrasing the numbers there, but there would be 10s of thousands of men ahead of even the best woman in the 100m. I know two or three people myself that have run faster than the woman's world record... It's a huge gap.

can't vs don't

each of these words have very different meanings


don't is relevant for the reasons you highlight
where can't is relevant for this thread

 

[TheKITC]

This is true, even in Australia.

Under 18’s nationals run 400m in about 48-49 seconds which would beat Cathy freeman in Sydney.

But transgender athletes who have reduced their testosterone to 10 nanomoles per litre are not 16-17 year old boys with high androgynous testosterone in their system.

I love how straight (probably white) men feel it is their duty to gate keep who is and isn’t a women and therefore who can and can’t participate in women’s sport.

I bet many of the same people in here crying f foul about trans participation are also the same People who denigrate AFLW, and rail against the term AFL.

You only want to speak on testosterone levels, how about you comment on the other advantages that a biological male has? I'll copy this from an earlier post of mine...

Does hormone therapy change the angle and size of their pelvis to be more like women, which affects their ability to run? Does it change the persons ligament / muscle compositions? Does it radically reduce a trans-woman's bone density? What about dozens of other advantages around reaction time, spacial awareness, control of large muscle groups etc etc etc etc.

Testosterone is a drop in the ocean concerning the advantages men have over women and to pretend that hormone therapy levels the playing field entirely is disingenuous at best. I'd call it something else...

You can try and turn this into a slinging match all you like by making assumptions about me, but I'm more interested in talking about facts. Look forward to you addressing these concerns without hyperbole and pigeon holing me.

 

[tandino]

This is true, even in Australia.

Under 18’s nationals run 400m in about 48-49 seconds which would beat Cathy freeman in Sydney.

But transgender athletes who have reduced their testosterone to 10 nanomoles per litre are not 16-17 year old boys with high androgynous testosterone in their system.

I love how straight (probably white) men feel it is their duty to gate keep who is and isn’t a women and therefore who can and can’t participate in women’s sport.

I bet many of the same people in here crying f foul about trans participation are also the same People who denigrate AFLW, and rail against the term AFL.


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Why should women have to modify their bodies to compete with other women anyway?