NO TROLLS Transgender Discrimination AFL Lawsuit

[FreeTK]

They are not biologically women because their sex chromosomes cannot be changed.

They can freely identity their gender as a women.

Yes, you are right, and sport (like all of society) is increasingly moving towards affirming people’s gender identity and including people on the basis of their gender vis a vis sex.



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[Taylor]

You've managed to move the discussion into a battle of merit of the participants over the subject.

Clap clap

 

[Bombermania]

I answered it 2-3 posts back.

I have zero interests in arguing about competitive advantage, because whether trans women should be able to compete in womens sport is not about competitive advantage, it is about people's rights under the IOC charter to participate in sport.

The AFL is not an IOC sport.

If the AFLW followed the WTA rules then it might still be the case that some transpeople would not be able to complete because of hormones. There are limits in place under the WADA anti-doping rules.

 

[TheKITC]

This thread really goes to show how poorly some people function when they step outside their echo chambers (Twitter, friendship groups based solely on identity politics) to discuss things with people in the real world.

The lack of good faith conversation and reasonable discourse is one of the genuine problems we have in society, where we are seeing more and more that people screech at, attempt to discredit and attack people who simply hold a different viewpoint. This thread is a real microcosm of what's going on out there.

There is a fair level of hypocrisy and irony going on here and it's pretty scary if some of what is being said is actually genuinely believed by those who are saying it. Very scary.

 

[Bombermania]

Obviously you don't understand what those terms mean.

You shouldn't use words you don't understand, son.

Yeah i think i know more about trans, sex and hormones than you ever will.

 

[Bombermania]

There are 1000's of studies done on the effect of testosterone on athletic performance, and many hundreds on whether women athletes who have had male puberty have advantages in sport.

The conclusions from those studies are not conclusive, many state it is a competitive advantage, many say it isn't. People will cherry pick those studies based on whatever their preconceived ideas are, evidenced by your own post a few pages back around the IOC NOT updating their guidelines because SCIENTISTS COULD NOT AGREE.

What I do know is society, and sport, are becoming increasingly inclusive, and increasingly intolerant of bigotry and exclusion.

The posts of many in this thread, will not age well, and they will be on the wrong side of history.

Go and tell that to WADA because excessive testosterone levels are known to give an advantage. Serena has said she wouldn't want to play the men but why would the GOAT women player of all time say that if there wasn't an advantage.

 

[FreeTK]

This thread really goes to show how poorly some people function when they step outside their echo chambers (Twitter, friendship groups based solely on identity politics) to discuss things with people in the real world.

The lack of good faith conversation and reasonable discourse is one of the genuine problems we have in society, where we are seeing more and more that people screech at, attempt to discredit and attack people who simply hold a different viewpoint. This thread is a real microcosm of what's going on out there.

There is a fair level of hypocrisy and irony going on here and it's pretty scary if some of what is being said is actually genuinely believed by those who are saying it. Very scary.

I know I haven't told any lies.

It's easy to call for unity, and pretend to be above the fray when you are gate keeping and protecting a society that still has deeply entrenched intolerance and bigotry.

What you are essentially arguing for is for a system of inequity and discrimination to remain in place. Firstly, it won't, and secondly, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

 

[Chubberson]

We can talk about you getting impeached and losing your status as a moderator instead if you'd like?

Considering you have already demonstrated your vast knowledge about bugger all except that you belong in politics. Let's hear the boy who cried wolf tell another story.

 

[Kwality]

There are 1000's of studies done on the effect of testosterone on athletic performance, and many hundreds on whether women athletes who have had male puberty have advantages in sport.

The conclusions from those studies are not conclusive, many state it is a competitive advantage, many say it isn't. People will cherry pick those studies based on whatever their preconceived ideas are, evidenced by your own post a few pages back around the IOC NOT updating their guidelines because SCIENTISTS COULD NOT AGREE.

What I do know is society, and sport, are becoming increasingly inclusive, and increasingly intolerant of bigotry and exclusion.

The posts of many in this thread, will not age well, and they will be on the wrong side of history.

Those that expressed a view or the view that you chose to believe them to be. This will not be a win/loss scenario.

 

[gingernuts]

Now this back in the 80's . Played soccer and this chick was very dominant in the female soccer comp.(very nice person as well). Th media launched on to her and how she should be playing in the mens divvy. The male players were told be careful when you tackle her because if to aggressive it would be dangerous and also if she got hit in the breasts by the ball it could lead to breast cancer..Actually late 70's. Thankfully it never went ahead.

 

[JustaBattler]

This thread really goes to show how poorly some people function when they step outside their echo chambers (Twitter, friendship groups based solely on identity politics) to discuss things with people in the real world.

The lack of good faith conversation and reasonable discourse is one of the genuine problems we have in society, where we are seeing more and more that people screech at, attempt to discredit and attack people who simply hold a different viewpoint. This thread is a real microcosm of what's going on out there.

There is a fair level of hypocrisy and irony going on here and it's pretty scary if some of what is being said is actually genuinely believed by those who are saying it. Very scary.

The poster stirring things up by pressing people's buttons - is just an example of those who promote an anti-intellectual world - fascists calling themselves whatever they choose to call themselves - and always occupying the high moral ground they invent for themselves. Laughter is the best response.

 

[Bostonian]

That is a pretty nice view.

It's a shame that in Victoria you either need to live in the city, or live out in the sticks with the country bumpkin plebs.

In Sydney or Perth, you can have both the city, and the water... Anyway I digress.

Such demeaning judgemental language directed at country people.

There is a chink in your virtue signalling armour.

 

[Kwality]

That is a pretty nice view.

It's a shame that in Victoria you either need to live in the city, or live out in the sticks with the country bumpkin plebs.

In Sydney or Perth, you can have both the city, and the water... Anyway I digress.

As an expat WA boy living outside Melbourne these days, you should visit some time.
Lived in all the mainland capitals, clearly you have not.

 

[Taylor]

We can talk about you getting impeached and losing your status as a moderator instead if you'd like?

Anything to avoid discussing the subject at hand.

 

[Demons09]

I know I haven't told any lies.

It's easy to call for unity, and pretend to be above the fray when you are gate keeping and protecting a society that still has deeply entrenched intolerance and bigotry.

What you are essentially arguing for is for a system of inequity and discrimination to remain in place. Firstly, it won't, and secondly, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

But you have told lies Mouncey is a bloke.

 

[TheKITC]

I know I haven't told any lies.

It's easy to call for unity, and pretend to be above the fray when you are gate keeping and protecting a society that still has deeply entrenched intolerance and bigotry.

What you are essentially arguing for is for a system of inequity and discrimination to remain in place. Firstly, it won't, and secondly, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

Your lack of self-awareness and continued hypocrisy is pretty stunning, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given your form.

Your failed barbs and personal attacks, lack of ability or willingness to have a genuine discussion and general demeanor have done nothing but show everyone reading this what your true colours actually are and how interested you are in reasonable discourse.

All the best, I think you've embarrassed yourself no end today in this thread and I'm certainly not anywhere close to being ashamed of myself.

 

[Great8]

but if women were good enough to get a run with the boys, good on em.

We want to see more women participate not less and I can’t see too many sports where even the best women in their field could compete with men at the elite level

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Most of these things begin with lefties' intolerance of the status quo.

If we always stuck with the status quo we would still be living in caves and grunting.

But you have told lies Mouncey is a bloke.

Nah, shes a woman

 

[Black white]

I've lived in Thailand for half my life and from observations would be quite confident to say yes re Thai males, trans is totally accepted here.
The fact that you call them chicks with dicks sort of emphasis that you think less of them.

Course I do, I'm a white male remember.
From what I saw in Thailand anything goes ,and I haven't even seen Pattaya ,whether it's accepted i'll take your word for it.

 

[Ron The Bear]

If we always stuck with the status quo we would still be living in caves and grunting.

Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[eastfreo75]

I've lived in Thailand for half my life and from observations would be quite confident to say yes re Thai males, trans is totally accepted here.
The fact that you call them chicks with dicks sort of emphasis that you think less of them.

Thai culture is very polite in public.

They are not accepted but just tolerated.

 

[theyellowsash]

Now this back in the 80's . Played soccer and this chick was very dominant in the female soccer comp.(very nice person as well). Th media launched on to her and how she should be playing in the mens divvy. The male players were told be careful when you tackle her because if to aggressive it would be dangerous and also if she got hit in the breasts by the ball it could lead to breast cancer..Actually late 70's. Thankfully it never went ahead.

That sounds like late 70s logic. Women can't play sports because it will give them cancer or something.

 

[theyellowsash]

Thai culture is very polite in public.

They are not accepted but just tolerated.

Better than neither, which is a lot of Australia.

 

[biggiemediums]

If we always stuck with the status quo we would still be living in caves and grunting.




Nah, shes a woman

Oh so you weren't joking before when you insinuated that me saying I was tolerant was what an intolerant person would say?

 

[Kappa]

For someone with Caster's condition, focusing on testosterone levels is a bit of a misnomer.

Caster likely has some form of both hyperandrogenism (excessive circulating testosterone) as well as androgen insensitivity syndrome (a disorder whereby the body can't respond the right way to the male sex hormone).

So, while we know the substantial effect that the presence of circulating testosterone can have on the development of muscle (and other athletic measures) for those with proper functioning hormone receptors, the science is still unclear as to nature and degree by which elevated testosterone levels in these individuals provide them with an 'unfair' athletic advantage.

Those with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) have testes but do not process testosterone at all - meaning testicular testosterone ends up converted into female sex hormones. The general view is that individuals with CAIS, though biologically male, can participate as female athletes as they receive no benefit from their elevated testosterone levels. Therefore, it is not as simple as to say that 'if you have testes, you cannot compete as a female' as CAIS athletes receive no athletic advantage from their elevated testosterone levels and are allowed to compete as females.

Those with partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (PAIS) body do process testosterone, but poorly. The general view is that those with PAIS have a slight athletic advantage over biological females and those with CAIS (but nowhere near the same advantage that 'normal' biological males have over biological females). The problem is that - currently - there is no measurable test to determine an individual's androgen insensitivity receptiveness - it is largely determined anatomically by doctors judging how virilised they are.

What we have is a very 'unscientific' approach to determining the advantage that PAIS athletes have over biological females - however, the relative overrepresentation of suspected PAIS athletes in female categories of elite sports would suggest that it is significant enough to require some form of re-categorisation for these individuals.

Do you think it's just one gigantic coincidence that Castor has this condition also absolutely destroys her elite female competitors? The science may not be conclusive yet, but based on pretty damn common sense her male attributes are helping her, and it's not fair to all the females who worked their whole lives for this race only to lose to someone who isn't biologically female, must be a real kick in the face.