Politics The madness of privatisation

[Power Raid]

And without increasing taxes, cutting expenses or selling assets how would you suggest to make this possible?

Liberals like to say labor increase taxes which people don't like. Then Labor say the Liberals will cut spending on essential services. That leaves only one option left which is selling off assets

increase GST, increase property taxes, reduce individual tax rates to the corporate rate, increase the corporate rate back to 30% for all

$1.7 trillion can not be paid off, even if we sold all our assets but selling some will have to happen

 

[00Stinger]

increase GST, increase property taxes, reduce individual tax rates to the corporate rate, increase the corporate rate back to 30% for all

$1.7 trillion can not be paid off, even if we sold all our assets but selling some will have to happen

Raising GST is basically the same as raising tax on individuals. Just buttered up a different way to not be so obvious

Raising land tax and corporate tax is a very risky move especially corporate tax. You want the economy to be stimulated and grow so giving companies more cash especially the small ones gives a higher chance of them employing more people

Either way you kind of agree with me there are really only three ways to cut the deficit and each has its pitfalls

One idea I have is cutting the grants available to businesses for tax breaks. But once again this potentially harms small/medium business which hurts their growth ability and potential to employ more people

 

[Seeds]

increase GST, increase property taxes, reduce individual tax rates to the corporate rate, increase the corporate rate back to 30% for all

$1.7 trillion can not be paid off, even if we sold all our assets but selling some will have to happen

Or simply print 1.7 trillion and give it to bond holders. sovereign debt isnt really a thing when the sovereign is the currency issuer and we have no inflation. The only debt we have to worry about is net external debt. But this is a private sector and bank problem. Not a sovereign problem unless the sovereign chooses to bail banks out.

 

[Kwality]

And without increasing taxes, cutting expenses or selling assets how would you suggest to make this possible?

Liberals like to say labor increase taxes which people don't like. Then Labor say the Liberals will cut spending on essential services. That leaves only one option left which is selling off assets

Should spending be considered? What is an essential service, versus a version of pork barreling/your preferred view of essential.
Do we need to spend the money on stadiums for example ? What about sponsoring sporting teams

Premier Partners

• 
  Victoria University
• 
  Asics
• 
  City of Ballarat
• 

Government advertising that is feel good/political in content.

Education is a big spend, are we getting value for money - appears not. Spend more?

 

[Kwality]

Or simply print 1.7 trillion and give it to bond holders. sovereign debt isnt really a thing when the sovereign is the currency issuer and we have no inflation. The only debt we have to worry about is net external debt. But this is a private sector and bank problem. Not a sovereign problem unless the sovereign chooses to bail banks out.

e.g. buying an imported car. What do you pay the Germans with, the pacific pesos ..... worked for Argentina.

 

[Kwality]

Raising GST is basically the same as raising tax on individuals. Just buttered up a different way to not be so obvious

Raising land tax and corporate tax is a very risky move especially corporate tax. You want the economy to be stimulated and grow so giving companies more cash especially the small ones gives a higher chance of them employing more people

Either way you kind of agree with me there are really only three ways to cut the deficit and each has its pitfalls

One idea I have is cutting the grants available to businesses for tax breaks. But once again this potentially harms small/medium business which hurts their growth ability and potential to employ more people

You are right about Government income, they have to take it from someone.
Company tax is effectively an international currency & we need to compete. We can chose not to & wear any consequences.

 

[Mofra]

e.g. buying an imported car. What do you pay the Germans with, the pacific pesos ..... worked for Argentina.

Capital issues don't directly cause inflation in isolation, it's the issing of capital above a nation's productive capacity that impacts inflation.

The irony of using the German example of an interesting one. Shorten made a nothing announcement about electric cars and some of the libs lost their s**t. German manufacturers are moving away for ICEs and shifting focus to electric vehicles anyway. Like it or not, were going to be dragged into the modern era.

 

[Power Raid]

Raising GST is basically the same as raising tax on individuals. Just buttered up a different way to not be so obvious

it also mitigates the ability for foreign entities to avoid paying tax. As it is almost impossible to get around consumption taxes vs income taxes being subject to transfer pricing.

Thus a consumption tax increases collection by hitting up multinationals

Raising land tax

Is a logical tax as it taxes wealth parked up in non-productive asset classes encouraging investment into more productive asset classes. Thus promoting business, R&D, technology, medical, renewables and other long term asset classes.

and corporate tax is a very risky move especially corporate tax. You want the economy to be stimulated and grow so giving companies more cash especially the small ones gives a higher chance of them employing more people

corporate tax could be 100% or zero percent. Having a franking system means we have the most efficient corporate tax regime in the world helping out the small end of town.

Either way you kind of agree with me there are really only three ways to cut the deficit and each has its pitfalls

yes agree. the only question is how we do this fairly, transition over time and the efficiency of the changes

One idea I have is cutting the grants available to businesses for tax breaks. But once again this potentially harms small/medium business which hurts their growth ability and potential to employ more people

I'm pro no grants unless there is a very compelling case but I'm not sure if this would create a dent in $1.7 trillion

 

[Power Raid]

Or simply print 1.7 trillion and give it to bond holders. sovereign debt isnt really a thing when the sovereign is the currency issuer and we have no inflation. The only debt we have to worry about is net external debt. But this is a private sector and bank problem. Not a sovereign problem unless the sovereign chooses to bail banks out.

with $90B of currency on issue, printing $1.7 trillion may result in currency deflation and sending inflation through the roof

We could smash the impressive 1 trillion Zimbabwe dollar note

 

[Kwality]

Capital issues don't directly cause inflation in isolation, it's the issing of capital above a nation's productive capacity that impacts inflation.

The irony of using the German example of an interesting one. Shorten made a nothing announcement about electric cars and some of the libs lost their sh*t. German manufacturers are moving away for ICEs and shifting focus to electric vehicles anyway. Like it or not, were going to be dragged into the modern era.

Not sure what electric cars have to do with anything to do with privatisation.
Whether or not the peanut gallery on either side of politics is chirping is irrelevant.

 

[ferball]

increase GST, increase property taxes, reduce individual tax rates to the corporate rate, increase the corporate rate back to 30% for all

$1.7 trillion can not be paid off, even if we sold all our assets but selling some will have to happen

Its in Australian dollars isn't it?

 

[ferball]

Anyway its been covered by Seeds and Mofra.

 

[Kwality]

Here is an Aus company mining in WA, building a processing plant in the US & the Yanks are kicking the can. Real world stuff, nothing academic/theoretical in play. Understand?

' Lynas Corporation has inked an agreement with the United States Government to build a light rare earths separation plant in Texas.

This follows Lynas’ agreement with the United States Department of Defense to deliver phase one work on a heavy rare earth separation facility in the United States.

Should that proceed to the next phase, the Texas facility will house both heavy and light rare earths processing facilities.

The plant will process material that is directly sourced from Lynas’ cracking and leaching plant under development in Kalgoorlie, Western Australia.

It is expected to produce around 5000 tonnes a year of rare earths products, including around 1250 tonnes a year of neodymium-praseodymium (NdPr).

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Should spending be considered? What is an essential service, versus a version of pork barreling/your preferred view of essential.
Do we need to spend the money on stadiums for example ? What about sponsoring sporting teams

Premier Partners

• 
  Victoria University
• 
  Asics
• 
  City of Ballarat
• 

Government advertising that is feel good/political in content.

Education is a big spend, are we getting value for money - appears not. Spend more?

Depends

If you want to single out the doggies, let's look at one of their key sponsorships - Victoria University

Because of that, govt agreed to kick in for the redevelopment of Western Oval. What did VU get in return? Their sports science faculty basically have unrivalled access to real world case studies for their students, and the faculty at VU are loving it

Also heard we shouldn't be shocked if this gets expanded to include Western Health in the not too distant future.

This is a genuine win-win for govt and the community.

 

[Kwality]

Depends

If you want to single out the doggies, let's look at one of their key sponsorships - Victoria University

Because of that, govt agreed to kick in for the redevelopment of Western Oval. What did VU get in return? Their sports science faculty basically have unrivalled access to real world case studies for their students, and the faculty at VU are loving it

Also heard we shouldn't be shocked if this gets expanded to include Western Health in the not too distant future.

This is a genuine win-win for govt and the community.

I quoted the Doggies because I am across their sponsorship, no other reason. I could have cut & shut the grab, I didnt. I didnt remove Asics either.
I did not want to single out the Doggies, it is an example in the context of my post on privatisation, no more.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I quoted the Doggies because I am across their sponsorship, no other reason. I could have cut & shut the grab, I didnt. I didnt remove Asics either.
I did not want to single out the Doggies, it is an example in the context of my post on privatisation, no more.

There is something in this one though. Some other ones, not so much

You picked the wrong club to single out

 

[Kwality]

There is something in this one though. Some other ones, not so much

You picked the wrong club to single out

As you choose, see my comments about the club involved.

 

[Power Raid]

Its in Australian dollars isn't it?

Yes

 

[Ned_Flanders]

As you choose, see my comments about the club involved.

i did, and i refute them. ive spoken to people at Vic Uni, and they dont consider themselves to be subsidizing the doggies in any way shape or form

as for tassies ferries sponsoring north, yet to find anyone who agrees thats economic value for TT

 

[Seeds]

e.g. buying an imported car. What do you pay the Germans with, the pacific pesos ..... worked for Argentina.

I dont understand your point? Are you confusing external debt with sovereign debt? Domestic currency issued debt with US dollar denominated debt?

 

[Seeds]

with $90B of currency on issue, printing $1.7 trillion may result in currency deflation and sending inflation through the roof

We could smash the impressive 1 trillion Zimbabwe dollar note

I dont think it would. Bond holders invest in bonds cos they want to save not spend. If you give the bondholders their money back do you think they would just all consume now and add to inflationary pressure even though previously they choose to save? I think you would find almost all that money would be put into shares or lent overseas or put back into bank accounts.

 

[Kwality]

i did, and i refute them. ive spoken to people at Vic Uni, and they dont consider themselves to be subsidizing the doggies in any way shape or form

as for tassies ferries sponsoring north, yet to find anyone who agrees thats economic value for TT

 

[Kwality]

I dont understand your point? Are you confusing external debt with sovereign debt? Domestic currency issued debt with US dollar denominated debt?

follow the money, dont get sidetracked - the car is built in say Germany, the jobs are there, the profits/tax are there.

When you buy the car in Aus, there are lots of on costs but Germany want/get their profit in real money not the pumped up Aus dollar. The Germans arent dills, spin it as you will.
I'm not talking about debt, its paid for.

I do understand what you are saying, I'm taking the transaction back to its simple form because international debt has so many rabbit holes to disappear down.

KISS, keep it simple stupid.

 

[Power Raid]

I dont think it would. Bond holders invest in bonds cos they want to save not spend. If you give the bondholders their money back do you think they would just all consume now and add to inflationary pressure even though previously they choose to save? I think you would find almost all that money would be put into shares or lent overseas or put back into bank accounts.

the inflation will be caused by the devaluation of currency meaning simple things like petrol would go to $20 a litre based on proportional dilution and probably $200 a litre based on fear

 

[Power Raid]

I dont think it would. Bond holders invest in bonds cos they want to save not spend. If you give the bondholders their money back do you think they would just all consume now and add to inflationary pressure even though previously they choose to save? I think you would find almost all that money would be put into shares or lent overseas or put back into bank accounts.

then when the government wants to issue another bond, rather than a 1-3% coupon the rate would be 30-2,000%

or simply no takers at all