Society/Culture Working from home vs forced back to the office

[HirdyLannister]

As someone who was a tradesperson for the last 20 years and has finished my degree, accepted a healthy VSP and start in the new year in engineering role.

I'm so looking forward to WFH, 2/3 split plus working 9 day fortnights!
I understand the first month or two I'll be in the office full time due to not knowing my role but after that having the flexibility with our first is going to be great. Never had this flexibility being a tradesperson.

 

[Gavin Excell]

As someone who was a tradesperson for the last 20 years and has finished my degree, accepted a healthy VSP and start in the new year in engineering role.

I'm so looking forward to WFH, 2/3 split plus working 9 day fortnights!
I understand the first month or two I'll be in the office full time due to not knowing my role but after that having the flexibility with our first is going to be great. Never had this flexibility being a tradesperson.

Good luck in the new career

 

[Borough Blood]

• people who lose their job because the step from remote work to offshoring is near non-existent

*Citation required

 

[Lia]

• people who lose their job because the step from remote work to offshoring is near non-existent
• young people who are supposed to somehow develop into fully fledged adults without the years of full-time face to face interactions (hell most 20-somethings are terrified to make a phone call)
• employers who see the workplace as part of their core culture
• local businesses, despite the efforts to spin this as a positive. I’m sorry but if people aren’t going into work then it follows that less people are eating out
• our cbds are at risk of going from vibrant hives of activities to dull filing cabinets of high density housing
• the good workers who know some of their colleagues are just sitting at home doing fk all and getting paid the same as them

Or maybe methods of communication have simply evolved and certain generations are unable or unwilling to keep up.

 

[basashi]

No wonder the property moguls - via governments - are trying so desperately to get people back to offices. There are certain people who benefit from others doing the commute, paying out for office space etc. These people are never going to act in the interests of the working class.

And the measure of how wrong they are is how active they are in this area. If WFH was genuinely faulty then the property industry would sit back and let it fail. But they know the reality that it is not a faulty work system and therefore need to attack it. Throughout the second half of 2023 there was an absolute parade of nonsense fed to the media - especially enthusiastically taken up by newscorp.

 

[owen87]

Or maybe methods of communication have simply evolved and certain generations are unable or unwilling to keep up.

There's many things that would take dozens of messages back and forth that a 2 minute phone call would solve.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Yeah plus hungry jacks don’t let me work from home the pricks

That could actually work. Make burger and chips at home. Chuck in a bottle of drink. Hand to delivery quadcopter. Quadcopter delivers prepaid meal. Bang! WFH Hungry Jacks or Mackers.

 

[the_interloper]

There's many things that would take dozens of messages back and forth that a 2 minute phone call would solve.

Absolutely, I'm a phone call guy for this very reason. Even if something needs to be in email I usually call before the email to explain what I'm about to send.

So many pricks are lazy and rely on email and s**t takes forever to sort out.

 

[1970crow]

I WFH(Cloud) and I'm definitely more productive in the office, lol. Having said that, as long as we're doing the work, they treat us like adults and don't monitor us too closely. I usually go in once every 2 weeks and find it's somewhat enjoyable to spend time with your colleagues, go out to lunch, etc.

One of my mates is an Exec at Commbank and he was saying they sacked a bunch of people this week. Said he'll find out whether he has a job or not tomorrow but didn't seem overly worried. Guess the refusal to go back to the office has had ramifications for many people at Commbank that they felt compelled to make an example.

Why can’t they monitor you too closely?

 

[owen87]

Why can’t they monitor you too closely?

He said ‘don’t’ not ‘can’t’.

Plenty of businesses could monitor excessively, but choose not to because they treat their staff like adults instead of children.

 

[Cap]

• people who lose their job because the step from remote work to offshoring is near non-existent
• young people who are supposed to somehow develop into fully fledged adults without the years of full-time face to face interactions (hell most 20-somethings are terrified to make a phone call)
• employers who see the workplace as part of their core culture
• local businesses, despite the efforts to spin this as a positive. I’m sorry but if people aren’t going into work then it follows that less people are eating out
• our cbds are at risk of going from vibrant hives of activities to dull filing cabinets of high density housing
• the good workers who know some of their colleagues are just sitting at home doing fk all and getting paid the same as them

I acknowledge that there are benefits to wfh. I find it’s a certain … type of worker that has the highest enthusiasm for it. If you reckon it’s a “no brainer” then I’d say you aren’t honestly weighing up the pros and cons.

I'm curious of this point.

If our CBDs get more and more high density living, isn't that actually going to increase the vibrancy because there is more people?

 

[ElectricG]

I'm curious of this point.

If our CBDs get more and more high density living, isn't that actually going to increase the vibrancy because there is more people?

I mean, I don’t know for sure. But I imagine it becoming more like those inner suburban areas that are densely populated and have no real reason for the people who don’t live there to travel to them. There might be more people living there, but there will be less people visiting.

Like, when did you last go to Kilburn for a night out?

 

[Cap]

I mean, I don’t know for sure. But I imagine it becoming more like those inner suburban areas that are densely populated and have no real reason for the people who don’t live there to travel to them. There might be more people living there, but there will be less people visiting.

Like, when did you last go to Kilburn for a night out?

But the CBD isn't a Western Suburbs built for commuters.

The CBDs have things people are going to need anyway and has the cultural, political and business institutions which will always have.

Imagine Adelaide CBD with 100k to 200k more people (instead of being shunted to the middle of nowhere) , adequate PT to get around and less cars and carparks and the surrounding parkland would be better looked after.

CBD would be far more vibrant.

 

[ElectricG]

But the CBD isn't a Western Suburbs built for commuters.

The CBDs have things people are going to need anyway and has the cultural, political and business institutions which will always have.

Imagine Adelaide CBD with 100k to 200k more people (instead of being shunted to the middle of nowhere) , adequate PT to get around and less cars and carparks and the surrounding parkland would be better looked after.

CBD would be far more vibrant.

But also imagine Adelaide CBD where half the restaurants and shops have closed because they have lost all of the business of the people who come in to work, including all of the out-of-towners on business trips. I think those businesses are propped up far more by working professionals rather than the student residents who live there.

Granted I’m probably exaggerating by saying it’d turn into a fully blown ghetto. But I feel strongly that it would be far less of a draw card for our state. I’m thinking Rundle Mall during COVID lockdowns.

 

[Cap]

But also imagine Adelaide CBD where half the restaurants and shops have closed because they have lost all of the business of the people who come in to work, including all of the out-of-towners on business trips. I think those businesses are propped up far more by working professionals rather than the student residents who live there.

That's the point you replace the 5 day a week people with people who actually live there.

Which means more people casually visiting, the people that live there.

Not all businesses are going to close their offices, it's not all our nothing

Granted I’m probably exaggerating by saying it’d turn into a fully blown ghetto. But I feel strongly that it would be far less of a draw card for our state. I’m thinking Rundle Mall during COVID lockdowns.

I think you are way off.

The art gallery, Adelaide oval Etc aren't disappearing because you let a few more peope work from home and replaced them with people who lived there.

 

[ElectricG]

That's the point you replace the 5 day a week people with people who actually live there.

Which means more people casually visiting, the people that live there.

Not all businesses are going to close their offices, it's not all our nothing

I think you are way off.

The art gallery, Adelaide oval Etc aren't disappearing because you let a few more peope work from home and replaced them with people who lived there.

Well just to be clear I generally advocate for mostly working in the office and occasional wfh - I do one day a week. Lots of people seem to support the wfh free-for-all.

 

[Cap]

Well just to be clear I generally advocate for mostly working in the office and occasional wfh - I do one day a week. Lots of people seem to support the wfh free-for-all.

All good, I think we just have different views on what will make a CBD better.

I'm more of a whatever works for the individual, if you don't need to go in, why go in.

Edit - certainly not just to prop up some CBD coffee shop.

 

[1970crow]

He said ‘don’t’ not ‘can’t’.

Plenty of businesses could monitor excessively, but choose not to because they treat their staff like adults instead of children.

Yes, him saying "don't" results in the question as to why "can't" they. It's simple English. But, OK, I'll play, what's the problem if they are monitoring "too closely"? Surely businesses are entitled to monitor output from WFH employees to their own discretion. Or does it concern you if keystrokes are monitored and people are held accountable for their lack of output?

 

[owen87]

Yes, him saying "don't" results in the question as to why "can't" they. It's simple English. But, OK, I'll play, what's the problem if they are monitoring "too closely"? Surely businesses are entitled to monitor output from WFH employees to their own discretion. Or does it concern you if keystrokes are monitored and people are held accountable for their lack of output?

It doesn’t concern me, it does however make staff pretty uncomfortable when they’re monitored in that way and is a pretty good way to convince them to look elsewhere for employment where they’ll be treated like adults.

I certainly wouldn’t be managing staff that way as a default position. Good on you if you think it’s productive I guess?

 

[1970crow]

It doesn’t concern me, it does however make staff pretty uncomfortable when they’re monitored in that way and is a pretty good way to convince them to look elsewhere for employment where they’ll be treated like adults.

I certainly wouldn’t be managing staff that way as a default position. Good on you if you think it’s productive I guess?

In the public service it's not your money, so you don't care.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Yes, him saying "don't" results in the question as to why "can't" they. It's simple English. But, OK, I'll play, what's the problem if they are monitoring "too closely"? Surely businesses are entitled to monitor output from WFH employees to their own discretion. Or does it concern you if keystrokes are monitored and people are held accountable for their lack of output?

Keystrokes over time is a really poor metric to measure productivity. Sounds like something that managers who don't actually know what their subordinates do would look at, competent people would simply look if tasks were completed by agreed dates.

 

[owen87]

In the public service it's not your money, so you don't care.

That makes no sense… staff are staff wherever they work. Good management and micromanagement are often very different things.

 

[peetoo]

That's the point you replace the 5 day a week people with people who actually live there.

Which means more people casually visiting, the people that live there.

Not all businesses are going to close their offices, it's not all our nothing

I think you are way off.

The art gallery, Adelaide oval Etc aren't disappearing because you let a few more peope work from home and replaced them with people who lived there.

people have more time for coffee shops or whatever we think ‘vibrancy’ is if they aren’t commuting 2 hours per day

Agreeing by the way

 

[ElectricG]

people have more time for coffee shops or whatever we think ‘vibrancy’ is if they aren’t commuting 2 hours per day

Agreeing by the way

I don’t really think that makes sense. They’re not gonna wfh and then commute to the CBD for after work drinks or lunch time coffee with colleagues are they?

 

[peetoo]

I don’t really think that makes sense. They’re not gonna wfh and then commute to the CBD for after work drinks or lunch time coffee with colleagues are they?

If they wise up and work near home or work from home and meet friends locally?