Past #7: Jack Ziebell [Part II] - retires post-RFC game/280gm&183gl/6yr captain - Shinboner - assaulted post-RFC game& in hospital - get well soon JZ

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DuckYeah said:
I wouldn’t personally, I’d play Jack up forward and persist with perez at HB.. I thought he showed a lot late last year. He might make JZ at success at half back.. its a long way from anything that resembles Luke Hodge
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Okay, I assume you're not a former AFL coach as well.
 

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Snake_Baker said:
Okay, I assume you're not a former AFL coach as well.
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There were massive issues in defence yesterday. JZ’s old habits of bombing the ball out of the D50 for it to return is just something ive seen and watched his whole career. Im not just pointing out JZ either. Defending was a s**t show yesterday
 
DuckYeah said:
If you remove the second and last quarter. Defending wasnt great Tef, Buckets going for marks instead if punching. Atu having zero body awareness. JZ booting the campaigner out of the sherrin for it on numerous occasions to sling shot back in. It can work a lot better.
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McKay had every right to go for that mark which resulted in a Hawks goal, not one player let him know and Atley lost it at other defenders for allowing a free run to jump in front of McKay.


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DuckYeah said:
There were massive issues in defence yesterday. JZ’s old habits of bombing the ball out of the D50 for it to return is just something ive seen and watched his whole career. Im not just pointing out JZ either. Defending was a sh*t show yesterday
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The biggest issue with the defence yesterday was with the ease in which the ball kept running in there.

If you can't see that then we may as well wind up our discussion.
 
The Anvil said:
McKay had every right to go for that mark which resulted in a Hawks goal, not one player let him know and Atley lost it at other defenders for allowing a free run to jump in front of McKay.


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Sure, thats fine. It resulted in a Hawthorn goal. Thats the bottom line. Whether communication, exiting or blocking or whatever it is or how anyone would like to phrase it. There is a massive problem down back and it wasnt good enough. Its only a practice match so I take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully they can work on it hard over the next couple of weeks.
 
Snake_Baker said:
The biggest issue with the defence yesterday was with the ease in which the ball kept running in there.

If you can't see that then we may as well wind up our discussion.
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Sure, i can accept that. However, you need to accept bombing the ball to direct turnovers is not going to help retain the ball in the midfield.
 
Snake_Baker said:
Okay, I assume you're not a former AFL coach as well.
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Mate Ziebell in defence will not work, it does not suit him. Hodge was one of the smartest players of all time, Z is a dumb player.
I can understand a new coach giving his captain anew challenge ( as one other position has worked for him), but it won’t work. Hope it does because Jack loves the club and plays his heart out, problem is he is just not very good.
harsh assessment but I believe fair.
Go Roos
 
Jack can kick to the goal, but he can't kick to the teammates.
Just suck him. his footy life is over. Done!!
 
tazaa said:
I can handle the mistakes if he’s trying to pull off an attacking kick but why does he lose his feet in every contest??

It’s mind numbingly stupid. You teach that to u16s defenders to keep their feet at all times.

I honestly think he’s not best 22 and he’s being placed in defence because the ball will be down there a lot and he’ll get enough opportunities to find the footy as a result.
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That's been his problem right from the start, it's been a really poor part of his game and the opposition knows that once he commits to the contest, they will be +1 as Jack hits the deck and takes an hour to stand up again. He is ok in the air and can be really damaging by foot. (can also win a hackathon when he plays in the middle). He's never had a great tank tbh.

I would try him in the backline again against port. If he loses his feet in a contest, or dives uselessly after an opponent who has gone, straight to the vfl, don't care if he is captain or not, that's an U9 trick to show the coach you are "trying".
 
HongKongRoo said:
That's been his problem right from the start, it's been a really poor part of his game and the opposition knows that once he commits to the contest, they will be +1 as Jack hits the deck and takes an hour to stand up again. He is ok in the air and can be really damaging by foot. (can also win a hackathon when he plays in the middle). He's never had a great tank tbh.

I would try him in the backline again against port. If he loses his feet in a contest, or dives uselessly after an opponent who has gone, straight to the vfl, don't care if he is captain or not, that's an U9 trick to show the coach you are "trying".
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The odds of him being caught out of position or off balance incease exponentially with the amount of times the opposition ram it back in there with relative ease.
 
HongKongRoo said:
That's been his problem right from the start, it's been a really poor part of his game and the opposition knows that once he commits to the contest, they will be +1 as Jack hits the deck and takes an hour to stand up again. He is ok in the air and can be really damaging by foot. (can also win a hackathon when he plays in the middle). He's never had a great tank tbh.

I would try him in the backline again against port. If he loses his feet in a contest, or dives uselessly after an opponent who has gone, straight to the vfl, don't care if he is captain or not, that's an U9 trick to show the coach you are "trying".
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I watched him closely.
The reality is he is a forward who has never played defence and his positioning at times was of someone with no experience at all.

My major concern is the lack of pace in the backline. Jack will only make us slower. Tarrant, Corr and McDonald is enough big bodies. There needs to be a shift to actually getting pace down there.
Richmond, West Coast, Saints all have quick small forwards. Our Defence are going to be sitting ducks this year.
 
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Snake_Baker said:
The odds of him being caught out of position or off balance incease exponentially with the amount of times the opposition ram it back in there with relative ease.
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Have a spell mate. This has been characterised by JZ his entire career. How many bombs outside D 50?

You blame the mids for not locking the ball up, the failure of defending is a product in midfield errors. Not entirely accurate. It was a combination of the two yesterday.

I really liked the 2nd quarter from the entire team to be honest. Bar the last 2 minutes.
 
Snake_Baker said:
The biggest issue with the defence yesterday was with the ease in which the ball kept running in there.

If you can't see that then we may as well wind up our discussion.
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I agree.

From what I saw our pressure is well off around the ground. Came in way too easily. Made it hard for defence.

Will have to see how we look with our best 22 in and after round 3
 
Personally I'd rather see Jack up in the forward line myself but I won't flick a switch atm and will see if the multitude of coaches we have be right or wrong first.
 
DuckYeah said:
I wouldn’t personally, I’d play Jack up forward and persist with perez at HB.. I thought he showed a lot late last year. He might make JZ at success at half back.. its a long way from anything that resembles Luke Hodge
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Where is Perez at ? How many weeks to go till he gets back ?
 
Jindrrk said:
I agree.

From what I saw our pressure is well off around the ground. Came in way too easily. Made it hard for defence.

Will have to see how we look with our best 22 in and after round 3
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StKilda & Hawthorn have just waltzed out of our half forward line.
 
Jindrrk said:
I agree.

From what I saw our pressure is well off around the ground. Came in way too easily. Made it hard for defence.

Will have to see how we look with our best 22 in and after round 3
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When two first gamers bang 9 bananas. You can hardly blame the forward line.

thats a cop out. The defence was putrid (1st and 3rd Q)

they were insipid, they did not function as a unit and did not use the ball exiting D 50 well at all in 1st and 3rd.
 
Devington said:
I can see it ending sooner than that: If he can't rapidly improve on his one on one defending, based on todays showing which is hopefully an anomaly, then he's in trouble. Keeping in the contest will also be an issue, but IMO it's far lesser than just conceding a mark inside 50. Not all the stats for the game appeared to be recorded (defensive 1on1 win rate etc) so I can't make too informed of a comment, but by my eye he wasn't great in that regard. He has some weapons with his kicking, physicality and (intercept)marking, but the most vital part of being a defender is preventing easy shots on goal and opposition coaches will try to exploit him if he doesn't improve. Possibly they might try use him as a sweeper coming in hot off the back of the square at bounces, let him get a head of steam up and either get the opportunity for a handball receive then kick it 60 or just crunch the poor opposition fool coming his way.

Not all gloom and doom on todays count, I think I mentioned it in a different thread, because he did a lot right today too and defensively the entire backline as a unit was poor so I would expect some easy improvement across the board. Other than 3 or 4 quite bad disposals he generating a lot of decent drive, including a few quick and smart handballs to a runner after taking a mark in the back half. Only one particularly crunching intercept attempt, but I expect we'll see more of those as well. He'll be a menace in that regard once he gets the timing right on whether to go or stay.

No idea how the change of role might work when all is said and done, could genuinely go either way. Most interesting positional change we've seen in a while I reckon. Could make or break Jack, and the coaches.
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Pretty much spot on. I’d say in the backline you basically have to do 3 things: defend, intercept, rebound. I would have said rebounding good, intercepting decent-to-good, defending poor-to-average. As an opposition coach you’d be looking to exploit him 1v1 or for pace; our coaches’ (and his teammates’) job is to counter that. His 1v1 should improve and the team defence around him should too. I’m far from convinced it’s a master stroke but there were signs it could work.
 
Snake_Baker said:
Why are folks heaping so much grief on the defenders?

Didn't you all see how hideously bad we were in mid to forward transition & retention?

A few of you are missing the elephant in the room.
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Individually, whatever. As a group though, they looked disorganised all day.
 
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