Autopsy Round 6, 2021: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda

[moirae42]

I agree with you. There has to be something rancid going on internally. You just don't drop away like this if everything is roses behind the scenes.

Is anyone able to spill the beans without getting a lawsuit?

Anyone?

 

[Saintbloke]

I think we're being a bit hard on headless chooks on this forum

 

[kernelT]

I’ve slept on it, now I have a really sore back.

 

[gringo2011]

So to the list. How many pass marks do you see from this group?

1. Coff- Playing into better form. Still building.
2. Jake- I dunno... Filling holes.
3. Jones- Injured. Body borderline rooted. No where near his best. Backwards
4. Gresh- Injured but prior was average. Backwards
5. Crouch- Meh. One good game.Meh
6. Seb- Same, same.
7. Dunstan- Done.
8. Hill- Quite literally the worst case scenario possible. Backwards
9. Jack- One of the best dozen in the comp...
10. Hannas- Done.
11. Clark- I dont reckon he is fit. Has moments of silk. Has moments of sh*te effort. Again, he just does not have a tank at all. Looks gassed and slow. Backwards
12. King- Forward setup is terrible. Needs to lead more. Needs to work more. Needs to kick through the ball every single set shot. Backwards.
13. Lonie- Same old. Bobs up a few times. Backwards
14. Gears- Done.
15. Billings- Has moments. I doubt will ever break through to the next level. Backwards.
16. Butler- Small forward. Output down massively. Probably somewhat of a victim of our F50 of horrors. Backwards.
17. Dyl- Gone.
18. Paddy- Yet to play. Thus, backwards.
19. Marshall. Gun. Needs to stay healthy and string some games. Backwards.
20. Dougal. Getting pantsed by repeated easy oppo entries. Smashed. Backwards.
21. Benny- Inconsistent. Often unsighted. Undisciplined. Miles backwards.
22. Higgins- Another small forward with mediocre output. F50 Horrors.
23. Bytel- Has had moments where he looks great. But consistency and then again, consistent game time required.
24. Frawley. Injured. Probably will be seen again. Probably done after this year.
25. Kent. Thereabouts in the twos but if he starts getting games we be rooted.
26. Battle- Where should he be played? Should be better than he is showing atm. Backwards.
27. McKernan- No.
28. Membrey- Committed tryer. F50 horror show.
29. Jweb- Average. Has had some good moments, but again, smashed by the ease the opposition get it in.
30. Allison- Not even close yet.
31. Byrnes- Realistically, he's not even close yet. He's not.
32. Wood- Another top up depth that will struggle to get a look in if we are fair dinkum.
33. Paton- Quite seriously this is where it all started to fall apart. He is dead set crucial for the back line. If playing he would be getting smashed by the sheer number of opposition entries.
34. Highmore- Fringe unknown.
35. Sinclair- Has many moments. Looks great. Another positional head fck with half back so rooted.
36. McKenzie- He's had a decent year. But he's probably not good enough for long term at the level.
37. Connolly- Like Byrnes, he isnt doing enough at Sandy yet to be an option.
38. Clavarino- As above.
39. Joyce- As above. Fringe GOP.
41. Hunter- VFL level ok. Not a realistic option for the step up.
44. Wilkie- He's solid, but getting smashed like all the other mainstay backs.
45. Alabakis- Who...

When this list isnt performing it looks absolutely horrendous moving forward. It looks dead set alarming.
I question our fitness level. I just dont think it is up to standard.
How many pass marks would you give so far? Steele probably?
I question our midfield setup. Perhaps will look different with the Ryder/Marshall combo. Defensively weak allowing far too many easy, walked entries.
I question our forward setup. Ultimate lame duck. Always congested. No one leading. No movement. No marks. No goals.
I question our defensive setup across the field.
I dont have any real answers either. There is no longer any confidence. No longer any fluidity.
We are getting pantsed.

Something is rotten. Somewhere.
At least if the coach was rooting the physio or something... we might have something to point the finger at.

I keep trying to tell people we have terrible recruiting. Like everything else at the club it's better than it was but still not up to standard. Last year was the perfect storm for over performing, no crowds, short games, older sides struggling without their families, new coach with energy, new players with energy and something to prove, Ryder's tap work and forward craft making a very poor midfield look like silk and plenty of others teams meeting us at just the right time.

We have strategy that has never worked anywhere. Carlton have spent 20 years doing what we're doing and it's never worked. Melbourne spent about half of their rebuild doing what we're doing and North were the most recent example. Until you make the cake it doesn't matter how much icing you spread around.

The club has to decide which way to go, they are either happy to be s**t and sell false hope and have a membership spike every 5 years when they sell false hope or they need to recruit the best staff they can to find talent on field. They also need to chase the best experienced assistants that can help build a brand and a vision for 4 years down the track.

We have some pieces but realistically if you were picking players to be definite keepers you'd probably have about 10 out of your best 22. We look more like North Melbourne than a premiership side IMO. I can't imagine why we are trying to replicate the Hawks from the start of the last decade. Footy changes every few years and we are still looking at the past.

 

[D2D3]

I’ve slept on it, now I have a really sore back.

I have quite an annoying headache after sleeping on it. Could be the saints or could be the alcohol, cannot confirm. Though the two aren’t unconnected.

 

[gringo2011]

would even kill to have someone like Clint Jones back! Never gave up ever, couldn’t hit the side of a barn by foot, but fu** I loved his effort! Our whole team could learn a lot from someone like CJ. Got the absolute most out of himself.

Daniel Mc Kenzie is that. Tries hard, lacks polish but he's a goer. He'd be a gun in a side like Richmond where he knows his limitations but works in a system. We are still trying to play a brand that is completely unsuited to our skill level. Richmond found a style that works with their limitations and makes them a positive.

 

[puntking]

I said last week i had some serious concerns about our coach after my source payed me a visit last week , its looking more and more obvious that what he told me is true

And what was that?

 

[CaptainRisky]

And what was that?

He didn't seem to concerned after the big losses , he f----ing would want to be concerned now

 

[CaptainRisky]

Daniel Mc Kenzie is that. Tries hard, lacks polish but he's a goer. He'd be a gun in a side like Richmond where he knows his limitations but works in a system. We are still trying to play a brand that is completely unsuited to our skill level. Richmond found a style that works with their limitations and makes them a positive.

You and your guns mate , sorry DMac would never be a gun in in AFL team

 

[Desperate saint]

Lots of bad factors coming into play:
* our style of play hasn't been as effective as it was last year because of the rule changes (longer quarters, less rotations, reduced list sizes, introduction of the stand the mark rule). The fast paced game plan we played last year can't be replicated in this new era, it seems, as effectively as it was... and we haven't adjusted.
* the draw hasn't helped;
* injuries have haramed us, as has Paddy's absence;
* our forward 50 entries are far less successful than they were last year. A lot of us expected King to be dominating games from the forward line, but that's not happening (at least yet). Not winning us matches the way some people expected.
* we are losing the clearances and that is hurting us badly. Maybe cause of Ryder and RoMa's absences... but we're not competitive.
* we have one elite player this year, I'd say, and that's just not enough... and (obviously) we don't have anyone who has stepped up as a match-winner
* We stacked up on older, mature players which had an immediate benefit last year but all older players run a higher risk of inury and faster drop-offs in form as they slow down etc
* our trades have been poor (Hanners, Hill) relative to the price we paid and our recruitment has also underperformed (as others said... Petracca was tipped to go No.1 the whole year and we picked someone with less talent).
* I'm not sure Ratten can go from hero to zero as quick as some are suggesting, but the coaching staff obviously hasn't responded as it should have to the changes in rules as they could have. I don't think speculation about a coach who got us to finals less than 10 games ago is fair... compare his record to the other coaches directly before him and you can see the improvement.
I'm sure that I have missed a lot of factors, but there sre so many happening at once that it's going to be a long and painful season. Leaves me wondering not just about the mid-season draft but also list management decisions at seasons end. Do we need to scrap the vision of ourselves that last year produced and do a complete rebuild? I dunno. Results will determine how we respond... but it's looking grim.

Great post-everything starts by who we bring into the club and the picks we trade out-Petracca =just a shocking decision I reckon he will win win a brownlow-Lonie in front of mini dog-Hannebury what were they thinking?and what we are paying Hill and for what we are getting........................4 massive reasons right there-then bringing in older players that have been let go for nothing-what message does that send to the group?you are never going to be top 4 bringing in players like that.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I think we can turn it around just not this year. This year is over. We need an off season to fully reset.

Sort of agree but dont , i think they all just need to harden the F--- up and get to work instead of spitting the dummy out , grow a back bone saints for once

 

[gringo2011]

This is interesting. I will look up on the Phantom drafts who the two at Sandy are. I don’t necessarily want to get rid of Billings. But if it leads to a couple of top picks in the engine room I would happily take a look.

Is this already a rumour behind the scenes, or your speculation? We haven’t had free agency work for us. About time. And I don’t want to give any picks away at the moment for Ben King, as good as he is.

Top level midfielders.

Billings is mentally fragile and a GOP, he's more Jack Newnes than the Bont. His missing goals when the game was still in the balance started the rot. He's not good enough to keep on big money. I'd rather cash him in if he wants another big contract. His best game was the come back against the Dogs years back. He offers no leadership other than being a nice guy and hasn't got drive or competitiveness to make him a great influence. He's from the era of Saints that were happy to be AFL footballers and just turn up for a pay cheque. Josh Bruce might be a massive campaigner off field but at leat he was competitive. Newnes too liked a win. We kept the wrong ones, anyone with drive or personality gets delisted. Parker was apparently a bit of a knob in the hub, gets sacked.

 

[Joffaboy]

I've slept on it and it is worse than a futon.

 

[gringo2011]

Brad Hill does that 5 times a game himself.

 

[gringo2011]

Dunno whether anyone posted this yet but listen around the last half of the interview. Seb talks about how teams have cracked onto our 0-30m scoring plan and that we've been "forced to use short passes, which we don't wanna do". And that late in the 4th quarter we saw some promising signs when "We were able to kick it long and Maxy got some looks at it. Things go another way and he might get a mark or a free kick". This confirms its a coaching directive to bomb it long to Max's head and that short passes are against our game plan

EDIT: 1:10 timestamp

Video

Seb Ross spoke to STK Media following our Round 6 loss to Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval

www.saints.com.au

Someone said they were training the cluster * forward set up. It's coaching.

 

[gringo2011]

Also why the flying fu** are we hiding Snake in the non existent forward line and playing Joyce? Just play him in his best position, CHB. I don’t care if his back is made out of peanut ******* brittle, just DO IT.


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Joyce has played forward so why not swap when neither worked. It wasn't like Jake's ruck work was effective and we couldn't lose the advantage of it. Could have rucked Darragh and had the same result.

 

[BigPowerForward]

Seb Ross with 31 disposals, 10 marks and 9 tackles was a pretty good effort I thought, but he needs to do this way more consistently. He seems to pick and choose when he puts in. He is one of our senior players and needs to be showing the way more often.
When I look at our team I think to myself, "where is the leadership coming from?". When the chips are down, who are the guys that are going to take the game by the scruff of the neck? Steele consistently yes, but he desperately needs help.
Belief is a important thing. When you have it great things are possible. When you don't, you play like us this year.
BTW It was great to see Paddy Ryder play well for Sandy. His tap work is sublime!

 

[gringo2011]

A lot to play out Merrett , Josh Kelly will be chased by a few clubs with Cripps most probably heading west.
and also a lot of un-contracted players like Cerra , Hopper , Shai Bolton , Ash , Tom Green.

Honestly Premo if you were a player manager you would not send your players to the Saints after this season. We would be as appealing as North right now and we don't even have any cap space to blow others out of the water.

 

[Sainter3and7]

What do you mean our fast paced game style from last year cant be replicated in this new era?

I don't think I made my point clearly... I was trying to say that our game plan from last year... OUR way of getting it quick into the forward line last year... isn't working and maybe can't work witg the new rules. Obviously other teams have adjusted better and their way works.

 

[kernelT]

Billings is mentally fragile and a GOP, he's more Jack Newnes than the Bont. His missing goals when the game was still in the balance started the rot. He's not good enough to keep on big money. I'd rather cash him in if he wants another big contract. His best game was the come back against the Dogs years back. He offers no leadership other than being a nice guy and hasn't got drive or competitiveness to make him a great influence. He's from the era of Saints that were happy to be AFL footballers and just turn up for a pay cheque. Josh Bruce might be a massive campaigner off field but at leat he was competitive. Newnes too liked a win. We kept the wrong ones, anyone with drive or personality gets delisted. Parker was apparently a bit of a knob in the hub, gets sacked.

So throw in Bruce, Hind, Newnes, Parker, Phillips, Marsh, Savage and you reckon we’re better placed to challenge?

 

[gringo2011]

I'd have Riewoldt as head/forward coach in a heartbeat. I don't care about coaching experience, he knows how to get the best out of players and work as an effective team. He would demand excellence and let them know where to improve. Dal Santo as midfield coach. Montagna defence coach. Ryder as playing ruck coach. I don't give a flying f*ck how unconventional it is.

I'd want him in as a director of footy role or similar. We need someone to straighten the vision for the future up. He has a presence that would attract footballers into the club too.

 

[Joffaboy]

Someone said they were training the cluster fu** forward set up. It's coaching.

Hill playing like a dead dogs donga but Ellis is right, he continues to get burned by his teammates.

We whinge he doesn't do enough, that he wont get the ball or tackle, but he was recruited to be outside, he is in a perfect spot to be given the receive but Mackenzie thinks it is beter to kick it OOB on the wing.

Obviously the coaching, sack Ratten, then we will win a flag.

 

[KingsRansom]

I'VE WORKED IT OUT!!!

Ratts, Rath and Roughie were sent here by clarkson to do the early leg work for the great man when he gets here. Clarkson wants to finish off where it all began in his coaching career, in the R,W and B....
Absolute master-stroke by the back house, had it planned for years. May as well give us the cup now!



Think I can hear my alarm for work....time to wake up now...

 

[BrutThough]

Hill playing like a dead dogs donga but Ellis is right, he continues to get burned by his teammates.

We whinge he doesn't do enough, that he wont get the ball or tackle, but he was recruited to be outside, he is in a perfect spot to be given the receive but Mackenzie thinks it is beter to kick it OOB on the wing.

Obviously the coaching, sack Ratten, then we will win a flag.

Was Long wasnt it?

 

[Joffaboy]

I don't think I made my point clearly... I was trying to say that our game plan from last year... OUR way of getting it quick into the forward line last year... isn't working and maybe can't work witg the new rules. Obviously other teams have adjusted better and their way works.

Should work better with the new rules. We transitioned well last year from the back half, it is almost non existent this year.