Roast Matt Rendell Vendetta against Collingwood

[sideswipe]

Yeah it's a complex issue. And yes, it's an opportunity for those who don't have access to a certain education to have access to it.
But that isn't what we are talking about. It's about a solution to help indigenous footballers feel comfortable to stay at the club and not feel a need to return home which is what Rendell was championing. I was making the point that there are those far better qualified to understand this complex issue and advise on what may be the best way forward. And it's definitely not some AFL recruiter.

Leaving the race question to one side, I think it is worth stating that Rendell has positioned himself as a whiny disgruntled ex-employee whose currency is diminishing by the day. Would have been easier for him to send a group email to all clubs with the title "Reasons you should never hire me".

 

[Billys Back]

All very well to talk to 'experts' but the recruiters have the job of interviewing and assessing the stayability and character of young players, and the go home/homesickness factor is surely going to be a important determinant of their suitability as AFL footballers. The issues may 'run far deeper and above a club recruiter’s pay grade' but they are nevertheless the people at the clubs who ultimately decide the fate of the young hopefuls. My only interest in defending Rendell is his comment that lead to his dismissal from Adelaide. I have little knowledge of anything he has said or done recently or his comments in the media that appear to have ruffled a few Collingwood supporter's feathers.

You are not possibly serious are you!! You think an AFL recruiter is best equipped to decide the character of young indigenous boys and what, they are best to advise on a solution???
* me. This thread has hit a new low.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I don't think there's a good answer for that unfortunately 76 - otherwise by now the problem would be much reduced.

It may sound trite but tolerance and providing good examples and role models seems about the best answers we have.

Dad was a lay preacher and in his sermons he always stressed on building family and community strength as the way forward. He believed that the power of family and community could build and change those within them and also spread.

We can't change the attitudes of the world or the nation but we can change them within our families, our workplaces and schools and in our communities.

It may not seem like the answer but it does work within those constraints and if enough families and communities adopt it change can happen.

+ I’d add that we need to be able to articulate and engage in discussion and debate about why reconcilliation isn’t just good for the indigenous folks, but good for all Australians. (And likewise being able to engage in all issues). When these things degenerate into labels and name calling, or when people simply follow a point of view because it’s trendy, or to be anti-establishment, or to avoid shame ... when righteousness is based on these things then it generally leads to trouble down the track ...

I just hope your father wasnt involved with churches going into aboriginal communities and imposing western culture and breaking up their families.

... such as this example. The missionaries went in with the very best of intentions. Sure, with the benefit of hindsight we can see that what happened wasn’t good. How can we sure that in 100 years time that our dependents won‘t be whacking us over some popular attitudes today that we didn’t properly think through?

 

[jackcass]

With all due respect these issues run far deeper and above a club recruiter’s pay grade.

And to be honest suggesting the AFL take 30 indigenous kids and send them to board in a private school in Melbourne will help them is ludicrous.

I can tell you there have been and are indigenous kids currently boarding at my childrens’ school. Just as many return home as those who stay.

Rendell seems to have all the answers. Let the AFL speak to the actual experts and communities as to how to best nurture and support these boys

Doesn't that just reinforce Rendell's comments? Schools and scholarships may not be the answer for every kid, but you do need to start somewhere.

 

[Billys Back]

Doesn't that just reinforce Rendell's comments? Schools and scholarships may not be the answer for every kid, but you do need to start somewhere.

It's no different to what was the issue in the first place. Some stay and some don't.

Rendell obviously wanted a fix for the issue which is a tick. He was obviously insensitive with how he conducted himself in doing it.
This a a deeper issue and he would have been better served (and even round up the other clubs), to strongly suggest the AFL (if they weren't already looking at it), to basically invest resources in having the best and most appropriate advice for longer lasting outcomes.

It seems some clubs have been doing it better than others for a few years now. Whether it includes creating the right environment (both at club and outside the club) with the assistance/advice of retired indigenous players or mentors or whatever. And then again, it may not be right for every kid.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You are not possibly serious are you!! You think an AFL recruiter is best equipped to decide the character of young indigenous boys and what, they are best to advise on a solution???
f**k me. This thread has hit a new low.

Mate, I never suggested any such thing! I said they had the job of recruiting players, including indigenous kids, and would decide whether or not the recruits got an AFL gig. It's their task to decide the suitability of all young players for a spot on an AFL list. Unless you are suggesting that a team of indigenous experts take over the recruiting of footballers. Certainly would make for an expensive and extensive recruiting team for each club. I made no mention whatsoever to a 'solution'.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

No but there are and have been indigenous kids provided with scholarships with private schools and from what I have seen (as I mentioned previously based upon the school 2 of my kids attend), some stay and some go back home due to being homesick. So, thinking that we should get these kids 'climatized' to a city environment by bringing them here earlier isn't the answer.

So the one's who go home are the players with a question mark over their head when the draft occurs each year. No club wants to recruit a player who is desperately homesick and just wants to leave. The same applies to non-indigenous players e.g Marsh.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

+ I’d add that we need to be able to articulate and engage in discussion and debate about why reconcilliation isn’t just good for the indigenous folks, but good for all Australians. (And likewise being able to engage in all issues). When these things degenerate into labels and name calling, or when people simply follow a point of view because it’s trendy, or to be anti-establishment, or to avoid shame ... when righteousness is based on these things then it generally leads to trouble down the track ...



... such as this example. The missionaries went in with the very best of intentions. Sure, with the benefit of hindsight we can see that what happened wasn’t good. How can we sure that in 100 years time that our dependents won‘t be whacking us over some popular attitudes today that we didn’t properly think through?

Missionaries are not a thing of the past. There are still plenty of them floating about the world preaching their arrogant belief to people with their own religions that only committed Christians will avoid eternal damnation. They are no more welcome now than they were 100 years ago. Interestingly, only Christians assume the role of missionaries and swan about third world and developing countries trying to convert.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Yeah it's a complex issue. And yes, it's an opportunity for those who don't have access to a certain education to have access to it.
But that isn't what we are talking about. It's about a solution to help indigenous footballers feel comfortable to stay at the club and not feel a need to return home which is what Rendell was championing. I was making the point that there are those far better qualified to understand this complex issue and advise on what may be the best way forward. And it's definitely not some AFL recruiter.

So he expressed an opinion, despite not being the best qualified...

... still waiting for the punchline.

Isn’t that the crux of what we’re all doing now on BigFooty?

 

[domus]

Ask an indigenous kid aspiring to play AFL football what he thinks of Rendell's comment, (on clubs preferring kids with at least one white parent) and see how he feels about it. Of course he will find it racist.

As for Collingwood employing Rendell well, the club's own investigation has been tabled, so no need for further comment.

He can play the victim and pot the club all he likes, it's easier for him to do that than address his own, (well exhibited) flaws.

How is it racist to suggest, based upon past experience, that young kids from isolated indigenous communities find it difficult to adapt to the fast paced life in a big city? Recently some clubs have been reluctant to recruit interstate kids because of their propensity to return back home after a year or two.. Nobody batted an eyelid over this statement and concern. I am so tired of this manufactured outrage and BS. It destroys good people's lives. My mate up in Darwin has been intending to return to Melbourne for years and keeps putting it off due to the heavy traffic and crowds. He' s not offended when I state he is struggling to decide whether he wants to return to the big smoke.

 

[ZEV]

How is it racist to suggest, based upon past experience, that young kids from isolated indigenous communities find it difficult to adapt to the fast paced life in a big city? Recently some clubs have been reluctant to recruit interstate kids because of their propensity to return back home after a year or two.. Nobody batted an eyelid over this statement and concern. I am so tired of this manufactured outrage and BS. It destroys good people's lives. My mate up in Darwin has been intending to return to Melbourne for years and keeps putting it off due to the heavy traffic and crowds. He' s not offended when I state he is struggling to decide whether he wants to return to the big smoke.

Someone's race or color is a protected attribute.

Your suggestion is making a negative assumption where someone's race or color is noted. That is what racism is. If you can't comprehend that you are part of the problem. Be tired, get used to the fact that your normal is wrong. Be better, do better.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

How is it racist to suggest, based upon past experience, that young kids from isolated indigenous communities find it difficult to adapt to the fast paced life in a big city? Recently some clubs have been reluctant to recruit interstate kids because of their propensity to return back home after a year or two.. Nobody batted an eyelid over this statement and concern. I am so tired of this manufactured outrage and BS. It destroys good people's lives. My mate up in Darwin has been intending to return to Melbourne for years and keeps putting it off due to the heavy traffic and crowds. He' s not offended when I state he is struggling to decide whether he wants to return to the big smoke.

This is the new age when anything said by a white person that seeks to provide an explanation for a negative outcome for an indigenous person is seen as racist, even if the comment is perfectly reasonable and based on evidence or experience. Usually I stay out of these discussions because inevitably I get howled down by the racism purists who think they can spot a racist remark within any group of innocuous words.

 

[domus]

You are not possibly serious are you!! You think an AFL recruiter is best equipped to decide the character of young indigenous boys and what, they are best to advise on a solution???
f**k me. This thread has hit a new low.

What are you on about? Every club makes an assessment on the character of every prospective pick, white, black or any other hue. They dig down into every aspect of their personality and attitude to a range of things. Why are indigenous boys off limits when it comes to this treatment? Plenty of white boys have been rejected based upon information the club has attained regarding their personality traits.

 

[ZEV]

This is the new age when anything said by a white person that seeks to provide an explanation for a negative outcome for an indigenous person is seen as racist, even if the comment is perfectly reasonable and based on evidence or experience. Usually I stay out of these discussions because inevitably I get howled down by the racism purists who think they can spot a racist remark within any group of innocuous words.

People defended Alan Macallisters comments.

People defended Eddies comments.

People defended Rendell's comments.

Can you see the pattern?

Changing your thinking and opinions is hard, challenging and confronting. Challenge yourself

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Someone's race or color is a protected attribute.

Your suggestion is making a negative assumption where someone's race or color is noted. That is what racism is. If you can't comprehend that you are part of the problem. Be tired, get used to the fact that your normal is wrong. Be better, do better.

Problem with this style of thinking is that people like me seeking to do the right thing will say '* it', I am always going to be labelled a racist, so I may as well become what they think I am anyway. What you have just said to me is bullshit, and makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about this issue.

 

[ZEV]

Problem with this style of thinking is that people like me seeking to do the right thing will say 'fu** it', I am always going to be labelled a racist, so I may as well become what they think I am anyway. What you have just said to me is bullshit, and makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about this issue.

Theres no need for discussion, Rendell made racist comments and suggested further systemic racist systems be put in place to benefit himself and his employer under the umbrella of helping indigenous players.

If an assumption based on an assumption is your defense for allowing racist behavior I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Don't draw conclusions. Change your actions. Change your thought patterns.

 

[domus]

People defended Alan Macallisters comments.

People defended Eddies comments.

People defended Rendell's comments.

Can you see the pattern?

Changing your thinking and opinions is hard, challenging and confronting. Challenge yourself

Stop it. Of the three you named only McCallister's comments could be seen to be racist and I don't think for a moment that he was a racist. If you seriously believe Eddie spoke racist comments and he was accused of doing it frequently, then you should feel nothing but disgust for our club, Nathan Buckley, Korda and everyone who is a part of the club for permitting Eddie to remain president for so long and have so much power. You should be contacting Channel Nine and Fox demanding to know why they are allowing a known racist to run one of their most popular programs and asking Fox to explain why Eddie is still commentating.

The only pattern I see in today's culture is the sickening desire to tear down people and use mob power to destroy their lives, often for words or deeds they spoke or acted out twenty to thirty years ago. Our society has never been less racist or oppressive toward other cultures or our indigenous people. It can't be such a bad thing to be indigenous in Australia when you have more people claiming to be indigenous now than existed fifty years ago. If you are one quarter indigenous why would you call yourself an indigenous person, yet that is exactly what most people in this situation do. I've never heard of a person with a Scottish grandma and Aussie grandpa and two Aussie born parents claim that they are Scottish. Have you?

 

[domus]

Theres no need for discussion, Rendell made racist comments and suggested further systemic racist systems be put in place to benefit himself and his employer under the umbrella of helping indigenous players.

If an assumption based on an assumption is your defense for allowing racist behavior I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Don't draw conclusions. Change your actions. Change your thought patterns.

No he didn't. You and a number of hysterical people who wish to make an issue where there isn't one called his comments racist. When Edddie made reference to the land of the falafel when talking about an area of Sydney he was called a racist and forced to apologise. Being the cuck that he is, McGuire apologized. I would have asked what was racist about a comment which accurately described a very popular food in that area as it is loved by people of a particular ethnic background?

If someone said Mooroolbark is the land of dimmies and four and twenty pies, how in the name of god could anyone take offense or view it as a putdown?

I would suggest those who believe somehow being associated with falafels is a negative thing are clearly the true racists.

 

[Markfs]

+ I’d add that we need to be able to articulate and engage in discussion and debate about why reconcilliation isn’t just good for the indigenous folks, but good for all Australians. (And likewise being able to engage in all issues). When these things degenerate into labels and name calling, or when people simply follow a point of view because it’s trendy, or to be anti-establishment, or to avoid shame ... when righteousness is based on these things then it generally leads to trouble down the track ...



... such as this example. The missionaries went in with the very best of intentions. Sure, with the benefit of hindsight we can see that what happened wasn’t good. How can we sure that in 100 years time that our dependents won‘t be whacking us over some popular attitudes today that we didn’t properly think through?

Regarding your first part, I think it is impossible for me to know the various nuances of how to say things or how to talk about the topic. I'd like to see some basic guidelines about things relating to common decency and fairness - not abusing, access to services.....right across the board. I think your idea of reconciliation is beyond what the general populace is capable of. It's like trying to run, without learning to stand up properly. It also expects a certain level of interest and advocates often use terms like "learning" and "education". I've got a lot to learn about a wide variety of things in life. I can't be expected to learn to engage with indigenous people at the sophisticated sensitive level that many of their advocates would like. I prefer to be polite and cordial ....as I would be with my neighbours. I have a lot of respect for traditional indigenous peoples living here for 60K years without stuffing it up....which is a lot better than what europeans have done. And I understand white history is heavily from one side. I think that level of understanding would be a great improvement for white society and I think it doesnt need a lot of discussion.

As for your hindsight thing, as a 10 year old boy, I would have thought that going into a country and forcibly changing a people's religions and cultures, wouldnt be the right thing to do. I dont need hindsight. I would have thought that as a 10 year old and every year since. I havent needed royal commissions to tell me what is right and wrong in this regard. I've heard this "retrospective" argument used by Napolean lovers recently and for southern slave owners in the US. Some things are right and wrong. Forcing someone with less power than you is always wrong. Coercing someone who has less power than you to do something, is one of the most questionable practices that I can think of.

 

[ZEV]

Stop it. Of the three you named only McCallister's comments could be seen to be racist and I don't think for a moment that he was a racist. If you seriously believe Eddie spoke racist comments and he was accused of doing it frequently, then you should feel nothing but disgust for our club, Nathan Buckley, Korda and everyone who is a part of the club for permitting Eddie to remain president for so long and have so much power. You should be contacting Channel Nine and Fox demanding to know why they are allowing a known racist to run one of their most popular programs and asking Fox to explain why Eddie is still commentating.

The only pattern I see in today's culture is the sickening desire to tear down people and use mob power to destroy their lives, often for words or deeds they spoke or acted out twenty to thirty years ago. Our society has never been less racist or oppressive toward other cultures or our indigenous people. It can't be such a bad thing to be indigenous in Australia when you have more people claiming to be indigenous now than existed fifty years ago. If you are one quarter indigenous why would you call yourself an indigenous person, yet that is exactly what most people in this situation do. I've never heard of a person with a Scottish grandma and Aussie grandpa and two Aussie born parents claim that they are Scottish. Have you?

Eddie said some racist stuff. He apologized. HE altered his behavior. People can and should change.

The goal is to eliminate racism, not celebrate being less racist.

Um, im not sure if you aware of how family trees work but generally you might find they expand....

I'm not sure of where you are going with your example but that person would be correct in saying they have Scottish heritage even as an Australian born citizen?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Theres no need for discussion, Rendell made racist comments and suggested further systemic racist systems be put in place to benefit himself and his employer under the umbrella of helping indigenous players.

If an assumption based on an assumption is your defense for allowing racist behavior I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Don't draw conclusions. Change your actions. Change your thought patterns.

Actually, I think what I will do instead is just accept that I am totally out of step with this contemporary way of thinking on racism and other similar topics. I have no more to say on the topic. I am obviously a racist and my opinion is worthless because I actually want to discuss based on evidence and experience which are apparently 'protected attributes' now.

 

[domus]

Someone's race or color is a protected attribute.

Your suggestion is making a negative assumption where someone's race or color is noted. That is what racism is. If you can't comprehend that you are part of the problem. Be tired, get used to the fact that your normal is wrong. Be better, do better.

Bloody ridiculous comment. So, you can make "positive" comments about a person's race or colour based upon observations but anything negative is racist?Black people tend to be more athletic than white people. Is that racist? Black people tend to run faster than white people? Check out the 100 metre sprint final line up at the next Olympics or all of the past Olympics. Is that racist or a fact? Black people tend to be better dancers than white people. White people can't jump. White people can't dance. White people run more slowly than black people. White people tend to swim better than black people. Scandinavian men are almost always the winners of the strongest man competitions. Asian people tend to be more gifted when it comes to maths. Italians are more emotive and demonstrative than Dutch people.

Are these observations not based upon evidence?

 

[ZEV]

No he didn't. You and a number of hysterical people who wish to make an issue where there isn't one called his comments racist. When Edddie made reference to the land of the falafel when talking about an area of Sydney he was called a racist and forced to apologise. Being the cuck that he is, McGuire apologized. I would have asked what was racist about a comment which accurately described a very popular food in that area as it is loved by people of a particular ethnic background?

If someone said Mooroolbark is the land of dimmies and four and twenty pies, how in the name of god could anyone take offense or view it as a putdown?

I would suggest those who believe somehow being associated with falafels is a negative thing are clearly the true racists.

"I've just a put a team together of your 17-year-olds who'll be sick of living up in the land of the falafel in western Sydney playing in front of a 12,000-seat stadium that's still not put up,"

Thats what he said. Do you think that is appropriate or neccessary?

 

[Markfs]

Actually, I think what I will do instead is just accept that I am totally out of step with this contemporary way of thinking on racism and other similar topics. I have no more to say on the topic. I am obviously a racist and my opinion is worthless because I actually want to discuss based on evidence and experience which are apparently 'protected attributes' now.

well except for the dramatic stuff, I've been saying this for a few posts....not that you're a racist, but white folk should really keep their opinions to themselves and simply do the common courtesies when it comes to their interactions with indigenous people.

 

[domus]

Eddie said some racist stuff. He apologized. HE altered his behavior. People can and should change.

The goal is to eliminate racism, not celebrate being less racist.

Um, im not sure if you aware of how family trees work but generally you might find they expand....

I'm not sure of where you are going with your example but that person would be correct in saying they have Scottish heritage even as an Australian born citizen?

They don't say they have an indigenous heritage. They identify as indigenous. That is very different and you know it. Why? It seems being indigenous might be perceived as advantageous by some people which completely shatters the lie that we are still oppressing our indigenous people.

Eddie didn't apologise because he said racist stuff. Eddie apologized so he could maintain his reputation and status and continue to rub shoulders with the rich and powerful and remain in his media roles. The social media mob would have made this impossible had he told them to shove it and refused to apologise as anyone with a spine and integrity would have done. The jellyfish apologized for saying he wished Caro would stay under the water if she went down the slide on the Queen's Birthday MND fundraiser. Why? We all say lines like this about people we don't like. Yet he was accused of encouraging violence against women. It was an utter farce. I wish X would take a long walk off a short pier is a traditional comment made by Aussies about people they don't like. It was taken as nothing more than a statement about your opinion of the X, not an actual threat of violence until the SJW mob saw yet another opportunity to take down someone they hated.

Eddie of course gave a groveling apology (as he always does) and donated money to White Ribbon. His apologies are meaningless.