List Mgmt. Squad post rebuild > finals push 2024

[Golumless]

Brisbane is the reverse example. Sometimes it clicks.

Personally, I think we'll be very competitive and improve again next year, and we'll be pushing for finals in 2023. Not sure if we make them, but we absolutely should be in the conversation.

Brisbane were at the bottom for ages though. It does provide an unfair advantage to rebuilding.

I have a lot of faith Nicks is the right man to lead this rebuild, but it seems like too much has to go right to get to that point in 2023. Firstly we're yet to really see the post-Tex world. Now the good news is we have the replacement on our list as the focal point, the bad news for any short term competitiveness is it is Thilthorpe. I don't think it's a stretch at this point in time to expect our rebuild to mirror Thilthropes ascent as a footballer, and I expect it'll take about 4 seasons for Riley to morph into that superstar to lead that line. I dunno if 2023 Riley will be ready.

The other major issue is we're yet to really make in-roads into transitioning our midfield. Sure we've replace Brouch with Laird and Mrouch with Keays, but that's not a group that's really going to make us very competitive on their own. Schoenberg will replace Sloane at some point in the next 9 months, which should really start that process, but we're likely waiting on him, Berry, Pedlar and whoever else we draft to take over alongside Laird. We're probably waiting on this group to start getting into that 70-90 game bracket before we're really pushing for finals. At least it's looking like the start of a capable group.

It's certainly not a moment to be panicking in, but I think there is enough there to think we'll spend 2-3 years after this one stuck in the mid table before we begin to push upwards.

 

[latinoheat]

One things for sure , you don’t need a list of superstars to win the flag . You need a mix of role players and a few stars
hopefully we pick up a blue chip midfielder this draft.
Think we’ve got the forward star in Thilthorpe

 

[aabp1978]

FWIW, I just cant see us winning a premiership again (at least not in the next decade) for two simple reasons - 1) we cant retain talent and 2) we cant recruit established talent. If you look at the clubs that are around the mark atm, not only have the nailed their draft picks, but also they have all been able to pick off the stars at "lesser" clubs (such as ours) - Richmond with Prestia and Lynch etc, Geelong with Danger, Cameron etc, Melbourne with Lever and May, Brisbane with Cameron, Neale and Danniher. We don't possess that luxury sadly. The simple reality is that no big name, non-SA player in their prime is going to come to the Crows...has not happened in 31 years...wont happen in the next 31 years. So thus we are stuck in a world where we will always be close...but never quite there.

 

[Golumless]

Out likely core is going to be Keays, Laird, Crouch, Seedsman and sadly Sloane.

Our developing mids of Shoenberg et Al will be the ones hitting 50+, meaning they all things being equal should be pushing the team towards finals in 2023

All good things being equal of course

It's a pretty yuck core.

Sloane is regressing. Seedsman is a candidate for a bad regression in 2022 (having a career year in 2021, and will be on the wrong side of 30 next year). Crouch if he's still here and Ben Keays are effectively the same player (with Crouch being the slightly richer version). Laird is good.

It's adequate for a team who is rebuilding, but we're definitely waiting on the kids to replace this bunch.

 

[Cap]

It's a pretty yuck core.

Sloane is regressing. Seedsman is a candidate for a bad regression in 2022 (having a career year in 2021, and will be on the wrong side of 30 next year). Crouch if he's still here and Ben Keays are effectively the same player (with Crouch being the slightly richer version). Laird is good.

It's adequate for a team who is rebuilding, but we're definitely waiting on the kids to replace this bunch.

Granted it isn't elite

But it's a core enough to provide supply to not be awful and should be good enough to move towards finals

We have Pedlar, 2021 and 2022 recruits to come in (likely at least 2 mids and all top 6 picks).

There really is no excuse, outside being Carlton, not to be pushing for finals in 2023

 

[jackster83]

We're more competitive than last year, but it's plain as day we lack class throughout our squad. We need players who can make good decisions and weight their kicks properly. This goes for not just the midfield, but the backline which looks like a bunch of headless chooks running around atm.

As the younger guys start to accrue games, we will need to start weeding out the ones who aren't up to it.

Hopefully we don't become obsessed with finding the next Keays - for every one of those, there are a dozen Crocker/Frampton types who don't work out. Plus playing them deprives a more talented youngster of a game.

Someone posted a month or so ago that we were chasing Dumont from North. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - sure it might help us win games like last night, but it will only hurt the development of guys like Berry and Pedlar. Next year and 2023 should be when we start looking at trades and FA's to fill whatever gaps we have in our side.

 

[goyoucrows]

I would go a top 5 mid than Luko for #3-5 if that was ever on the table.

I love Luko but having him in the side without fixing our mid through draft or FA won't fix anything.

Still hoping the south Adelaide kid falls to us this draft and Pedlar steps up.

Anyone know the deal with Pedlar atm? Is he nursing injuries or something? Why isn't he getting a shot? Also, I know he's not the answer, but Hately needs to be in the side good and bad form to build AFL level experience.

 

[Golumless]

We are still finding elite good players with late 1st rounders in Doedee and gun youngsters with late picks in Sholl and Schoenberg, Hamill (who hasn't kicked on this season) and Berry are looking as very good late picks, O'Brien and Butts were both rookie picks, McHenry and Fogarty are developing to the 1st rounders players we expected, McAsey is also developing nicely in the SANFL, Thilthrope was always going to be a gun player so the development is still there.

Gallucci was a bust but that was a Pyke decision and the reason was more around his lack of effort to be able to run both way which was why he wasn't selected even as a rookie by other clubs after we delisted him and the jury isn't out on Jones.

Schoenberg, Hamill and Berry weren't late picks. All were 2nd rounders.

McHenry, Fog and Jones are why I think our development is rebounding back to where it was, but equally - Gooch was a bust (That's on our development system no matter however you want to spin it), Jones fell apart as a prospect, Poholke and Fogarty stalled. Our 2016 drafts is really rough reading too now. It's not pretty reading really, after a solid 6-8 years in the lead up to Noble leaving the GM gig.

Granted it isn't elite

But it's a core enough to provide supply to not be awful and should be good enough to move towards finals

We have Pedlar, 2021 and 2022 recruits to come in (likely at least 2 mids and all top 6 picks).

There really is no excuse, outside being Carlton, not to be pushing for finals in 2023

Nah, I don't see it at all with that core. Not until Schoenberg, Berry, Pedlar (everything that can be crossed is crossed for Luke) and whoever we draft with our 1st round pick in '21 take the reigns and become the key guys. Or Thilthorpe genuinely breaks out and becomes a superstar, but even then that may not be enough (see Gold Coast now with Ben King, seeing he's on track for a 60+ goal year).

I expect we'll be where Fremantle and Gold Coast are now in 2023. There is enough to be very excited about the future, but it needs a little bit more cooking before its ready to be a genuine finals contender.

I would go a top 5 mid than Luko for #3-5 if that was ever on the table.

I love Luko but having him in the side without fixing our mid through draft or FA won't fix anything.

Still hoping the south Adelaide kid falls to us this draft and Pedlar steps up.

Anyone know the deal with Pedlar atm? Is he nursing injuries or something? Why isn't he getting a shot? Also, I know he's not the answer, but Hately needs to be in the side good and bad form to build AFL level experience.

Had some injury issues in his draft year (and year before), and has spent some time out of the SANFL side nursing a groin injury. Sounded like he had a good game on the weekend though in the 2nds, with 23 disposals/5 tackles. Might get a debut in the back half of the year hopefully and a couple of games to build off if he can stay fit.

Hately is a tough one seeing his inside game is really not there at the moment. I'd let him sit in the SANFL until he's lighting it up at the moment.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

I would go a top 5 mid than Luko for #3-5 if that was ever on the table.

I love Luko but having him in the side without fixing our mid through draft or FA won't fix anything.

Still hoping the south Adelaide kid falls to us this draft and Pedlar steps up.

Anyone know the deal with Pedlar atm? Is he nursing injuries or something? Why isn't he getting a shot? Also, I know he's not the answer, but Hately needs to be in the side good and bad form to build AFL level experience.

Horne likely out of reach unfortunately, unless some vic kids explode out the blocks in U18
Matthew Roberts a very good consolation prize though
Along with Arlo Draper (we might package up 2nd rounder with crouch compo for a live trade to get Draper back end of first round / early 2nd)
That’s adds 2 more class mids allowing next years 1st to be Lukosious collateral

Matthew Roberts
South Adelaide/South Australia
DOB: July 31, 2003
Height/Weight: 183cm/81kg
Position: Midfielder/Forward
2021 averages*: 32.0 disposals | 23.0 kicks | 9.0 handballs | 8.3 marks | 7.7 tackles | 6.3 clearances | 7.7 inside 50s | 4.0 rebound 50s | 1.7 goals (5)
* – from three Under 18 games.


Arlo Draper
South Adelaide/South Australia

DOB: January 20, 2003
Height: 185cm
Position: Midfielder/Forward

2021 averages*: 21.8 disposals | 12.8 kicks | 9.0 handballs | 4.3 marks | 4.3 tackles | 6.0 clearances | 3.5 inside 50s | 0.3 rebound 50s | 2.0 goals (8)

* – from first four games.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Above gives us a very good core to work around

Laird
Schoenberg
Pedlar
Hately
Berry
Cook
Sholl
Milera
Roberts
Draper
Jones
Hamill
McHenry
Keays

Fairly decent depth who can go through the midfield

 

[kulak]

It's a pretty yuck core.

Sloane is regressing. Seedsman is a candidate for a bad regression in 2022 (having a career year in 2021, and will be on the wrong side of 30 next year). Crouch if he's still here and Ben Keays are effectively the same player (with Crouch being the slightly richer version). Laird is good.

It's adequate for a team who is rebuilding, but we're definitely waiting on the kids to replace this bunch.

Sloane’s demise is greatly exaggerated. He is the 7th ranked player in the league by AFL player ratings points per game this year. Tex 11th.

 

[Trigger13]

Can’t compare our rebuild to Brisbane’s. They actually nailed their high draft picks. The current list is being carried by over performing older players, covering the cracks for what is a horribly constructed list. The rebuild has only just started. And it’s a very bad start.

 

[Golumless]

Can’t compare our rebuild to Brisbane’s. They actually nailed their high draft picks. The current list is being carried by over performing older players, covering the cracks for what is a horribly constructed list. The rebuild has only just started. And it’s a very bad start.

Now that's being overdramatic for the sake of it. 2nd youngest list, routinely playing 13-15 guys under 50 games experienced and have rolled two top 4 teams. It's going ok at the moment.

We have our key forward (Thilthorpe), we have our key defender (Butts), and we have three midfielders (Sholl, Schoenberg and Berry) sorted for our next-gen core. It's not Brisbane just yet (but note, Brisbane had been at the bottom for 3-4 years before they spiked), but for the 1 1/2 year mark of a build, it's a fine position to be in. Beyond that, for the most part, we've looked well structured and organised as well.

The position becomes very good if Fogarty takes the next step in the back half of the year and really cements being a 2nd KPF, or Pedlar starts to get game time in the AFL, or someone randomly breaks out.

 

[1970crow]

Brisbane first hit the bottom 4 in 2014 and stayed there for five consecutive years including a spoon year. It took them five years to make finals

Yes, from finishing 18th to 2nd they took 2 years, but it was built on the back of accumulating lower picks for a longer period

We may not have finished bottom 4 prior to spoon but we did finish 11th and 12th

 

[Faaarrk]

Now that's being overdramatic for the sake of it. 2nd youngest list, routinely playing 13-15 guys under 50 games experienced and have rolled two top 4 teams. It's going ok at the moment.

Through necessity rather than choice though.
Without looking at the ages we must be playing close to our oldest list available.

 

[1970crow]

Sloane’s demise is greatly exaggerated. He is the 7th ranked player in the league by AFL player ratings points per game this year. Tex 11th.

View attachment 1148861

Just keep looking at those rating points. I'll watch him play and notice that a full time midfielder has averaged 21 touches in 6 of 8 games. I think his 8 games this year carry a bit more weight than the 32 that preceded them.

 

[Interloperer]

The rebuild has only just started. And it’s a very bad start.

it's 18 months into the Nicks era, if it's only just starting now then it's irredeemable.

 

[Golumless]

Through necessity rather than choice though.
Without looking at the ages we must be playing close to our oldest list available.

Yup. We're pretty much on it bar a couple tweaks.

Definitely the most experienced... which is still one of the lowest in the league. Our list management has certainly been thorough.

 

[Golumless]

We may not have finished bottom 4 prior to spoon but we did finish 11th and 12th

Yup 11th and 12th whilst we believed we were a top 4 side.

We didn't officially start the rebuild until 2020, seeing rebuilds start when you burn your list down, but it did allow us to get some kids onto our list beforehand. Mostly by necessity then anything else seeing who we lost in 2017. Some preconditioning years if anything.

 

[kulak]

Just keep looking at those rating points. I'll watch him play and notice that a full time midfielder has averaged 21 touches in 6 of 8 games. I think his 8 games this year carry a bit more weight than the 32 that preceded them.

Those stats were for this year only. He wasn’t great last year with various injuries.

He is actually playing quality footy this year, albeit not 2016 All Australian vice captain absolute top tier.

 

[1970crow]

Those stats were for this year only. He wasn’t great last year with various injuries.

He is actually playing quality footy this year, albeit not 2016 All Australian vice captain absolute top tier.

AFL player ratings are last 40 games. If Sloane is 7th mid in the league this year then you can rule a line through that metric.

 

[ABAB]

Can’t compare our rebuild to Brisbane’s. They actually nailed their high draft picks. The current list is being carried by over performing older players, covering the cracks for what is a horribly constructed list. The rebuild has only just started. And it’s a very bad start.

If you are talking about last year* then yes it started very bad but this year there has been very positive sign we are heading in the right direction where even Kane Cornes has started to change his tone that this is the worst Crows list at the start of the year. Walker and Seedsman has only been our consistent older players and Sloane early in the season but there no doubt there has also been massive contribution by the youngsters this season.

 

[Murray2503]

In regards to Grundy I would be happy for the club to pay him 500k a year with Collingwood paying the remaining 400k per year. They did a similar deal with Treloar to free up salary so i can see a similar deal taking place with us. ROB would be on 500-600k minimum so this would be a big win for us to trade ROB out and bring Grundy in. We are going nowhere with ROB as our ruckman. The other move I would make is offering Bolton 950k a year for 5. He would likely win us 3 or 4 games off his own boot. Lastly we should go after Brennan Cox down back from Freo. Is a South Australian so it shouldn't be hard to get him home and he would be a great replacement for Talia. Butts and Cox down back would see us through for 10 years.

 

[WeeBlake]

FWIW, I just cant see us winning a premiership again (at least not in the next decade) for two simple reasons - 1) we cant retain talent and 2) we cant recruit established talent. If you look at the clubs that are around the mark atm, not only have the nailed their draft picks, but also they have all been able to pick off the stars at "lesser" clubs (such as ours) - Richmond with Prestia and Lynch etc, Geelong with Danger, Cameron etc, Melbourne with Lever and May, Brisbane with Cameron, Neale and Danniher. We don't possess that luxury sadly. The simple reality is that no big name, non-SA player in their prime is going to come to the Crows...has not happened in 31 years...wont happen in the next 31 years. So thus we are stuck in a world where we will always be close...but never quite there.

Don’t agree with all of this but your main point is important and gets overlooked a bit. We haven’t landed many early to mid career top end players lately. Eddie Betts is the only one I can think of. But we’ve lost plenty. It’s very hard to compete with clubs getting a steady flow the other way.

 

[BronCrow]

If the club isn't in a strong finals position (contending for home final week 1) in 2023, it's a failed rebuild.

You don't seem to understand what a full rebuild of a playing list entails.