News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III - L6ckdown

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7577969923 said:
Would that be a material enough change to necessitate a new batch of stage 2 and 3 trials? That would be a huge disincentive.
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Yeah, at this point I wouldn't know what to say about how they'd do trials. Rulebook seems to have gone out the window quite a while ago here on a lot of how these vaccines are being handled because the situation itself is ever evolving (and of course incredibly urgent). Pfizer being given to kids 12 and up here now, talk of Moderna doing that next, and okays being given to mix and match mRNA and viral vector vaccines between doses if necessary. Our last batches of AZ here expired at the end of May, but the official word now from the top docs advising is "yeah, use 'em anyway. It's fine." And I'm sure it is. We all know expiry dates aren't absolutes.

I kind of love seeing how fluid the scientific decision making processes have become throughout all this though. It's been refreshing to hear these voices tasked with what used to be such a fear-based rigid do-not-deviate-from-protocol approach finally just shrug and say "yeah, we can do that, it'll be fine."
 
Sopwiths North said:
Yep, good explanation Roos, they are entirely different clotting process than what you would use anticoagulants for. May even cause more harm too, if you did.

And I think you're spot-on about the modified adenovirus used as transport mechanism. The J&J vaccine uses it as well, and guess what - also causes clots.

I get that we're neck-deep in a pandemic, but it'd be ethical policy for both those companies to at least consider reworking the transport mechanism for these vaccines asap. I'm not sure either of them is though. Had one of the top guys from Astra Zenica on the news here in Canada last month hurling abuse at our country's top doctors for recommending those that can wait for Pfizer wait for that instead. He said the Canadian government was being negligent in its duties, and putting people in danger by recommending that option. He didn't say a word about the 5 people who died here from his vaccine and the 28 hospitalised. Geez he was mad though. Angry old white guy losing his cool at us on national tv. Not a good look for that company at all.

Back before all the vaccines were rolled out I was pinning my hopes for a J&J because it's just one dose. Was very disappointed when it turned out to cause clots too. Over to Pfizer it was. Hopefully be able to get my second dose in about 6 weeks.

Hope you guys can get your hands on more vaccines soon and get the rollout moving faster. I know it seems like you've got this latest outbreak corralled right now, but I worry about your winter. And we need to beat the variants at this point too. :(
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Adenoviruses are used because they work well with vaccines generally.

Apparently Canada will stop givng the AZ shot as a first dose. But it will give it as a second shot to people who get other vaccines. How does mixing vacines work? Or have I completely misunderstood.

Does that mean they will give it as a second dose when someone else
 
ferball said:
Adenoviruses are used because they work well with vaccines generally.

Apparently Canada will stop givng the AZ shot as a first dose. But it will give it as a second shot to people who get other vaccines. How does mixing vacines work? Or have I completely misunderstood.

Does that mean they will give it as a second dose when someone else
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No, you're right, we are mixing them here. Essentially, if you got AZ as a first dose, you have the option of getting an mRNA as a second dose, or getting another AZ. That's for now, until everyone's gotten a second dose that wants one and then it looks like we'll be phasing out AZ completely. Hence the using expired doses instead of ordering more.

The mixing has been okayed here based on a few short term "studies" done in the UK and Spain. I suppose it's not a new concept/practice, the mixing of vaccines, but I guess it's the first time it's been done with an mRNA.

Some researchers think the adenovirus vector delivery in the AZ and J&J results in some sort of "undesirable" breakdowns that cause mutations to occur within the spike protein DNA, and potentially trigger inflammatory reactions that result in thrombocytopenia in the first days after, but they haven't been able to account for what causes the later-occurring thromboembolic events that happen weeks later.

Well, maybe they have by now, I don't know. This is a German study from last month.


8c30a186-e9e2-47c1-a76c-dc3bdf10c22a.pdf (researchsquare.com)
 

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Tas said:
Why don't they just put people on Aspirin from the first jab to a couple of months after the second jab? The clots will unlikely form even with a mild blood thinner like Aspirin.

By the time you can detect clots, there is the potential for a life threatening event.
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yep i take an aspirin every morning and so should you all. heck it may just stop a clot forming in your brain and blowing part of it up. Just one of those tiny ones is apparently enough
 
Sillygit said:
Alright, so if i drive across the nullarbor and pretend to be from WA ill likely get it before just sitting on my arse here.
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We will make you an honorary sandgroper 👍
I did look though, it said no spots available so no rush though :p
 
 
Melbourne’s lockdown will end on Friday, but residents are set to be restricted to travelling 25km from their homes in a bid to prevent a Queen’s Birthday weekend exodus to the regions.

Under a new restrictions regime, students are expected to return to the classroom as early as Friday, with visitors to the home still banned and public outdoor get-togethers capped at 10 people.

Cafes and restaurants will be limited to 50 customers, while gyms are expected to remain closed. Masks will remain mandatory indoors, with density limits in offices.
 
Pretty sure my car doesn't have a 25 kilometer meter ffs. Fair dinkum these carnts. You fekkers can go to work and be thankful to stay home. Get facked.
 
giantroo said:
Melbourne’s lockdown will end on Friday, but residents are set to be restricted to travelling 25km from their homes in a bid to prevent a Queen’s Birthday weekend exodus to the regions.

Under a new restrictions regime, students are expected to return to the classroom as early as Friday, with visitors to the home still banned and public outdoor get-togethers capped at 10 people.

Cafes and restaurants will be limited to 50 customers, while gyms are expected to remain closed. Masks will remain mandatory indoors, with density limits in offices.
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If this is true then I'm getting concerned that the more vocal lobby groups (parents who don't want to WFH and have their child home too and hospo) are getting all the bones thrown to them.

The idea that hundreds of kids from different families can all sit in a classroom together, but friends of mine who booked a little stay in a cabin in the dandenongs are too high risk, is pretty on the nose. If they're that concerned that they need to restrict movement, I think they need to treat it as such across the board rather than making some pretty high risk exceptions.

Doesn't affect my life too much either way.
 

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