Universal Love David Teague

[Elmer_Hauser]

This is illogical unsubstantiated nonsense that goes against all of his history as a coach.

Oh really ? What about footage of him punching a hole in the wall in the coaches box at the MCG or having one of his players have an extended stint on the sidelines due to the toxic instructions he gave to his other players by aiming for the head at boxing practice in training?

One final thing, even if this club is moronic enough to appoint Clarkson as coach, I can pretty much guarnatee you he won't coach us to a Grand Final, let alone a flag.

The absolute naive conjecture some of you place upon Clarko and what he could achieve with our list really is astonishing.

Why not believe in Santa Claus whilst we're at it

Anyhow beat Geelong on Saturday and finals are well and truly back on the agenda and hopefully all this talk of replacing Teague will subside for a while

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Culling Teague when his trajectory is on the rise, has a case of dejavu about it.
I understand where the trepidation resides for many,
Clarko has been a great coach with historical success, but I say his best coaching is behind him
He built a list from hell, stars across all lines, he built an academy of coaches at clubland, he had the support of
a former premier president, Carlton is different, and I'm not sure clarko , has the tolerance to suffer fools at the CFC

I made it known I prefer Lyon, but I'm not 100% sold, but I wouldn't be upset with the decision if the club saw fit to go that way. I tend to prefer the incumbent especially if there's an improvement
Meritocracy allows for redemption, reinvention and openness to improve.

This is how i'd like it. Teague sees out his contract, on the proviso, very specific assistants come onboard.
If the trajectory improves as we all expected it to at the start of the season, he stays. If it doesn't, he goes.

I don't want to see Teague set up to fail by the club, like it did with Rattan, only to have the club ruined to an inch of its life
There were problems, but things have changed over the break, what? I'm not sure, how? i don't know. Was there an acceptance of sorts?
who knows.....i just want to see the club and all that represent it, improve, in however manner, it takes to do so.

Finally, some common sense, objective and thoughtful opinions that is well argued and backed up with solid facts.


If Teague goes he goes, life goes on, but I am convinced The Angry Midget is not a healthy choice for a club with so many young and players that need positive reinforcement like ours, and has really done horrible list management decisions that have set Hawthorn's rebuild back years.

Teague certainly deserves at least ONE more year in charge, and if doesn't work out, go for someone like Yze.

Clarkson is not a Bill Belichick type that coaches better as he gets older. Far from it.

Is it too much to ask for a bit more patience for a young and promising senior coach who is still finding his way in his position ?

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Oh really ? What about footage of him punching a hole in the wall in the coaches box at the MCG or having one of his players have an extended stint on the sidelines due to the toxic instructions he gave to his other players by aiming for the head at boxing practice in training?

One final thing, even if this club is moronic enough to appoint Clarkson as coach, I can pretty much guarnatee you he won't coach us to a Grand Final, let alone a flag.

The absolute naive conjecture some of you place upon Clarko and what he could achieve with our list really is astonishing.

Why not believe in Santa Claus whilst we're at it

Anyhow beat Geelong on Saturday and finals are well and truly back on the agenda and hopefully all this talk of replacing Teague will subside for a while

What does punching a hole in a wall and doing dumb things with the players have to do with being an egotist? I'm not sure you know what that word means.

Why can you guarantee he won't coach us to a flag?

Yes, believing the greatest coach of the modern era could bring success to us is naïve? Lol.

Assuming we beat Geelong, how does that mean finals are on the agenda? You need 12 wins to get into the 8, maybe 11 assuming the percentage was super high.

I'm not sure how we could chain together an additional 5-6 wins, 3-4 at best imo.

Finally, some common sense, objective and thoughtful opinions that is well argued and backed up with solid facts.


If Teague goes he goes, life goes on, but I am convinced The Angry Midget is not a healthy choice for a club with so many young and players that need positive reinforcement like ours, and has really done horrible list management decisions that have set Hawthorn's rebuild back years.

Teague certainly deserves at least ONE more year in charge, and if doesn't work out, go for someone like Yze.

Clarkson is not a Bill Belichick type that coaches better as he gets older. Far from it.

Is it too much to ask for a bit more patience for a young and promising senior coach who is still finding his way in his position ?

Lol positive reinforcement? Are they professional athletes or a bunch of babies? Good god.

Why do you have such a hatred of Clarkson? Ian Aitken ?

Yes it is, when he's had ALL year to fix things and hasn't done anything up until bare recently, its gotten so bad we've had to have a mid-season review.

They wanted to have another crack, but didn't get there? No shame in that, I would hope we'd do the same if we were ever in that position.

Clarkson available and he's keen? No brainer, done any day of the week.

If he's not, 1 more year for Teague with good quality assistants ffs, a lot of the good ones were signed up last year, completely ridiculous how we missed out.

But end of the day, I'm just a babbling campaigner on a footy forum, trust the club to get the review right.

But Moneybags as I've rambled previously will 10000% be gunning for Clarkson, so if he's keen don't be surprised to see him coach Carlton.

 

[Juddrockz]

As the old Thy would say "can you see romance in my future"?

Where is Thy btw?

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Where is Thy btw?

Was wondering that myself recently, haven't seen Thy and MetalCrusher post in a while, hope both of them are A-ok.

 

[Markyd]

On Clarkson, I think coaches are like players they all have an end date. To have 18 years coaching at one club with 4 premierships, phenomenal effort!

Lets try to build our own dynasty, not try and harness it from the tail end of another clubs success.
If it's not Teague we move on, but I don't think he's a lost cause just yet!

 

[CarltonBlooz]

On Clarkson, I think coaches are like players they all have an end date. To have 18 years coaching at one club with 4 premierships, phenomenal effort!

Lets try to build our own dynasty, not try and harness it from the tail end of another clubs success.
If it's not Teague we move on, but I don't think he's a lost cause just yet!

If we move Teague on, who's your candidate? Strongly disagree Clarkson has an end date. Dunstall on 360 saying he still has an immense coaching passion.

 

[macky99]

Bottom 6? Yes, we are 13th and one win out of the eight. You need to add context to things when making such statements. Whether we win 10 games or 12 games doesn't make too much difference at the end of the day, we are still where we are at.

We have performed fairly well against the better teams, what has let us down is a couple of games we could have won that we didn't. Two games I can identify as us having totally failed in.


Maybe expectations sometimes need to be more aligned with reality. We were always going to be a 7th-12th sort of team this year and that is where I expect we will be at the end of the season.

We made the decision to recruit three expensive recruits and 6th-10th was absolutely a achievable target in the 5th year of a rebuild & the age profile of the list.
Whilst your comments that we lost against good opposition by 4-5 goals reality is we lost we were in winning positions in most of those games but folded because of lack of good defensive structures and the inability to stop teams scoring quickly against us.
Maybe Teague & co have partly addressed this, but then again why would it take so long for some of these changes to occur.
Again pretty sure the club is of a similar view hence the review process.

 

[chunkylover53]

Both those coaches, coached finals before their reviews...
If the club decide he is still the man then I will back him...

Two and a half years in and he still has training wheels on..
How much time do you give him? Until Walsh retires without playing finals? (dramatic sound effects)


Don't agree with that at all..
Hawthorne's list is cooked, they would be the 18th worst list in the comp..

For him to keep them competitive in games and even win some, says to me his still got it..
But, he would need to steer clear of list management

which clarko has had a lot to do with. he controls that entire club including a lot of list management and refused to rebuild. i find it hard to believe he would come to us unless we allow the same sort of power.

the whole "clarko will bring standards" thing is such trash imo. malthouse was meant to bring standards, then buttifant, then bolton, then russell, now clarko?

he hasn't fired a shot since 2015 and has continually misjudged his list, maybe his time in the sun is over?

if teague doesn't survive i'd rather go for bucks. have a feeling him and cripps would make a pretty formidable partnership as leaders.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

which clarko has had a lot to do with. he controls that entire club including a lot of list management and refused to rebuild. i find it hard to believe he would come to us unless we allow the same sort of power.

the whole "clarko will bring standards" thing is such trash imo. malthouse was meant to bring standards, then buttifant, then bolton, then russell, now clarko?

he hasn't fired a shot since 2015 and has continually misjudged his list, maybe his time in the sun is over?

if teague doesn't survive i'd rather go for bucks. have a feeling him and cripps would make a pretty formidable partnership as leaders.

Why Buckley? Like his coaching style?

Disagree Clarkson wouldn't bring standards, would 100% be a shock to the system to a lot of Carlton players if he was coach.

 

[Blue__Balls]

which clarko has had a lot to do with. he controls that entire club including a lot of list management and refused to rebuild. i find it hard to believe he would come to us unless we allow the same sort of power.

the whole "clarko will bring standards" thing is such trash imo. malthouse was meant to bring standards, then buttifant, then bolton, then russell, now clarko?

he hasn't fired a shot since 2015 and has continually misjudged his list, maybe his time in the sun is over?

if teague doesn't survive i'd rather go for bucks. have a feeling him and cripps would make a pretty formidable partnership as leaders.

Refused to rebuild?

What?

Ladder finishes by year:

2011 - 3rd
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st (premiers)
2014 - 2nd (premiers)
2015 - 3rd (premiers)
2016 - 3rd
2017 - 12th
2018 - 4th
2019 - 9th
2020 - 15th
2021 - 17th (so far)

The "slide" starts in 2019, but even then they only just missed out on finals. Not sure why they'd be expected to rebuild prior to 2020.

2019 they drafted with Picks 13 and 29, 2020 with Picks 6, 29 and 35.

The only senior players they've traded in those years have been with late picks (Frost, Hartigan, Phillips).

The last player they gave up anything of note for was Wingard in 2018.

How is any of this "refusing to rebuild"?

Pushed for finals as long as was viable, then turned to the draft and senior role players for late picks.

 

[17SetMeFree]

Why Buckley? Like his coaching style?

Disagree Clarkson wouldn't bring standards, would 100% be a shock to the system to a lot of Carlton players if he was coach.

I reckon we wait a bit. we wanted a "standard" and what we've seen in the last 2 weeks is closer to what we want than further away.
We don't know what this review has found, its plans to implement, or any other suggestions. We don't know Luke powers impact, all we know is what we see, and its improving.

 

[katmanblue]

Refused to rebuild?

What?

Ladder finishes by year:

2011 - 3rd
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st (premiers)
2014 - 2nd (premiers)
2015 - 3rd (premiers)
2016 - 3rd
2017 - 12th
2018 - 4th
2019 - 9th
2020 - 15th
2021 - 17th (so far)

The "slide" starts in 2019, but even then they only just missed out on finals. Not sure why they'd be expected to rebuild prior to 2020.

2019 they drafted with Picks 13 and 29, 2020 with Picks 6, 29 and 35.

The only senior players they've traded in those years have been with late picks (Frost, Hartigan, Phillips).

The last player they gave up anything of note for was Wingard in 2018.

How is any of this "refusing to rebuild"?

Pushed for finals as long as was viable, then turned to the draft and senior role players for late picks.

C'mon man, don't poke holes in his narrative. Unsporting of you to bring facts and analysis to a rant.

 

[chunkylover53]

Refused to rebuild?

What?

Ladder finishes by year:

2011 - 3rd
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st (premiers)
2014 - 2nd (premiers)
2015 - 3rd (premiers)
2016 - 3rd
2017 - 12th
2018 - 4th
2019 - 9th
2020 - 15th
2021 - 17th (so far)

The "slide" starts in 2019, but even then they only just missed out on finals. Not sure why they'd be expected to rebuild prior to 2020.

2019 they drafted with Picks 13 and 29, 2020 with Picks 6, 29 and 35.

The only senior players they've traded in those years have been with late picks (Frost, Hartigan, Phillips).

The last player they gave up anything of note for was Wingard in 2018.

How is any of this "refusing to rebuild"?

Pushed for finals as long as was viable, then turned to the draft and senior role players for late picks.

the writing was on the wall in 2017, they fell into '4th' in 2018 and went out in straight sets. that year the first draft pick they had was 43 as they sold the house for wingard, scrimshaw and scully - whilst trading out their only promising youngster in Burton. that's the definition of refusing to rebuild. just because he's finally succumbed now doesn't mean he didn't set the list back a few years.

Why Buckley? Like his coaching style?

Disagree Clarkson wouldn't bring standards, would 100% be a shock to the system to a lot of Carlton players if he was coach.

buckley was in self-preservation mode this year due to a horrible, horrible list, so his style looked garbage. however his players never stopped having a crack. when collingwood were up and running they were pretty good to watch. i reckon he's still young in coaching years, still chasing that elusive flag and has a good balance of tactical nous and man management. ignore the ageing rat pack he pissed off at the start of his coaching career, it's clear he's changed.

why would it be a 100% shock? mick was an animal when it came to training (arizona camps), as was buttifant - best in the business at the time wasn't he? bolton came in and made a "fat camp" and anyone under 12% body fat was banished there until they improved their skin folds. let's mention his incredibly high intensity as a coach as well, bloke never switched off. now andrew russell, another best in the business high-performance manager who was going to whip us into shape physically and mentally in no time. now clarko? nah, don't buy it. players set the standards, coaches can lead them to water, but can't make them drink.

 

[chunkylover53]

C'mon man, don't poke holes in his narrative. Unsporting of you to bring facts and analysis to a rant.

Ah yes, facts like the year they went out in straight sets they chose to sell the farm to top up for a flag and failed miserably? There's literally an entire thread on it that's been going on for years.

Why don't you show your facts instead of cheerleading from the sidelines about "narratives"?

 

[BigFrizz36]

I don't get it. This time last week Ross was the messiah and had the job sewn up. Plenty of people posted rumours to say it was pretty much a done deal.

This week its Clarko.

Meanwhile we are playing pretty much our biggest game for quite some time this Saturday. Win it and we are in it up to our eyeballs.

Might be best to prioritise that.

 

[jj1978]

I reckon we wait a bit. we wanted a "standard" and what we've seen in the last 2 weeks is closer to what we want than further away.
We don't know what this review has found, its plans to implement, or any other suggestions. We don't know Luke powers impact, all we know is what we see, and its improving.

I hate to say it, but we won the last 2 games by not being the dominant team for the longest. Our tackling numbers were low and we still had periods of leakage. We keep harping on about getting better assistants, well Clarko will have a line from Princes Park to the MCG for coaches wanting to be part of his team.

 

[Ricky Mott]

Teague on the move!

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Oh really ? What about footage of him punching a hole in the wall in the coaches box at the MCG or having one of his players have an extended stint on the sidelines due to the toxic instructions he gave to his other players by aiming for the head at boxing practice in training?

None of that is arrogance or what you said it is. That's passion, frustration and pushing to the limits to win. Pretty easy behaviour to analyse and doesn't signal him being washed up at all either lol.

One final thing, even if this club is moronic enough to appoint Clarkson as coach, I can pretty much guarnatee you he won't coach us to a Grand Final, let alone a flag.

Lol. You're clueless. You've no idea on this. It's about the processes and he knows them better than most, so if the club deems him the best choice then he likely is. He knows how to run a professional high performance setup. Something we can't even do right now, hence the review.

The absolute naive conjecture some of you place upon Clarko and what he could achieve with our list really is astonishing.

Why not believe in Santa Claus whilst we're at it

What absolute condescending ****ing bull shit. He's a proven coach and just because you dislike him doesn't make your false narrative true or let you call the club and other supporters moronic.

Clarko could come over he could go elsewhere, he could win us a premiership he might not, its about maximising possibilities and whether the club thinks Teague or Clarkson has a higher success chance.

The simple answer is we don't know who has a higher success chance out of the two. We can't, we don't know the future, which makes your assertions on Clarkson coaching ability even funnier.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Clarkson is not a Bill Belichick type that coaches better as he gets older. Far from it.

How the **** would you or anyone know this.

 

[BlueBlood15]

We made the decision to recruit three expensive recruits and 6th-10th was absolutely a achievable target in the 5th year of a rebuild & the age profile of the list.
Whilst your comments that we lost against good opposition by 4-5 goals reality is we lost we were in winning positions in most of those games but folded because of lack of good defensive structures and the inability to stop teams scoring quickly against us.
Maybe Teague & co have partly addressed this, but then again why would it take so long for some of these changes to occur.
Again pretty sure the club is of a similar view hence the review process.

Good post
For me, the big games to watch to close out this year are Geelong, Port and GWS. We are 0-7 against top 8 sides. The only other team to not beat a top 8 side is 18th place North and they drew against GWS, which gives them a better record than us against top 8 sides. None of the top 8 sides blew us out but you would think that our system would hold up in one of the 7 attempts, but it did not. Teague and this team have been relatively reliable in beating the bottom 6 sides but our system needs to stand up against top 8 sides or our ceiling as a club is capped. Interesting last 7 weeks upcoming.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Why do you have such a hatred of Clarkson? Ian Aitken ?

Contrarian or because he absorbs and believes the headline of the day shit other supporters post too quickly.

Probably read a hawks autopsy thread once this season. Never the place to go for rational thought.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Ah yes, facts like the year they went out in straight sets they chose to sell the farm to top up for a flag and failed miserably? There's literally an entire thread on it that's been going on for years.

Why don't you show your facts instead of cheerleading from the sidelines about "narratives"?

What people like being is the smartest in the room so a lot of supporters talk absolute shit, the hawks as a whole organisation decided to top up and go for another flag, it failed. They then no fussed started a rebuild. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. There's no gross mismanagement. They took a risk and it didn't pay off. Not every risk can...

 

[Blue__Balls]

the writing was on the wall in 2017, they fell into '4th' in 2018 and went out in straight sets. that year the first draft pick they had was 43 as they sold the house for wingard, scrimshaw and scully - whilst trading out their only promising youngster in Burton. that's the definition of refusing to rebuild. just because he's finally succumbed now doesn't mean he didn't set the list back a few years.

Jeez, wish we could "fall into" a top four finish....

"sold the house for wingard, scrimshaw and scully"

You're kidding right?

Scully and Scrimshaw cost them a future third rounder. For both players! Pick 52 in a draft that only went to Pick 65....

And what's Burton done in the last three years to indicate they were wrong to cash in? They overpaid a bit for Wingard, sure, but what club doesn't do this on the odd occasion?

Even then - is "rebuilding" all about drafting with high picks, or about developing the kids you do draft? Jiath, Worpel, Moore, Koschitzke, Greaves, Day, Morris, Grainger-Barrass, Newcombe all showing good signs. Maginness, Reeves, Downie and Brockman developing in the reserves. Looks a lot like a rebuild to me....

 

[myblueroan]

What people like being is the smartest in the room...

Not me. I'm not even the smartest in my stable. Sure I've got it over the parrot living in the rafters, but wee Jock the shetland?
Sharp as a whip that one.