OT: US University Shootings

[Super Goalie]

A lone gunman is dead after police said he killed at least 21 people Monday during twin shootings on the Virginia Tech campus -- the worst school shooting incident in U.S. history.
"Some victims were shot in a classroom," university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said during a news conference in Blacksburg.
Police believe there was only one gunman, Flinchum said.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

Full Story: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

 

[NSWCROW]

Lotta confusion over the suspect.
Was reportedly killed but then a photo of a bloke being cuffed surfaced.!!!

 

[NikkiNoo]

It's now up to 33 people dead and they think the shooter is dead but they are also still unsure if the two incidents are related - the earlier shooting and the larger one at Norris Hall

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Remember folks only humans kill, guns don't.

That's the NRA line.

If only that was true, most of these people would still be alive.

 

[Coopers]

Yeah, but how you gonna defend yourself from the milkman without your AK-47, with depleted-uranium, cyanide-tipped, hollow-pointed, explosive rounds?



Apparently the shooter killed himself after.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

Heard this early this morning. It is just horrifying to think that one (or 2) people can go on such a rampage and end the lives of so many people. If you have not seen it check out the video on ninemsn.com of someone's phone camera. It is absolutely chilling.

 

[noddy]

Heard this early this morning. It is just horrifying to think that one (or 2) people can go on such a rampage and end the lives of so many people. If you have not seen it check out the video on ninemsn.com of someone's phone camera. It is absolutely chilling.

Happens far to regularly

The worst ones in my opinion are the massacre in a Scottish primary school some years back & the Port Phillip one.

 

[jo172]

Guns don't kill people, People kill people

Americans are a bunch of stupid psychos

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Guns don't kill people, People kill people

Americans are a bunch of stupid psychos

This is the biggest piece of codswallop that the yanks try to sell.

Sure they don't have a brain and get up and walk over and shoot someone but if people couldn't get their hands on them just imagine the millions of lives saved.

 

[jenny61_99]

It's not just the Americans who believe that guns don't kill people! The small, but reasonably powerful gun lobby here in Australia will tell you the same thing.... until Port Arthur that was.

Nobody could tell me that a man armed with a knife (rather than an automatic weapon armed with more ammo than he could carry) is going to kill that many people before being overwhelmed and apprehended.

If this incident doesn't make the US change their gun laws, nothing will.

 

[jo172]

The fact that 2 members of the NSW Legislative Council are members of the shooters rights party freaks the hell out of me.

The problem is the second you liberalize gun laws, even for a second it makes it easier for the nutcases to get their hands on them and then you get events like this one happening.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

It's not just the Americans who believe that guns don't kill people! The small, but reasonably powerful gun lobby here in Australia will tell you the same thing.... until Port Arthur that was.

Nobody could tell me that a man armed with a knife (rather than an automatic weapon armed with more ammo than he could carry) is going to kill that many people before being overwhelmed and apprehended.

If this incident doesn't make the US change their gun laws, nothing will.

It's their god given right damn it.

 

[Crow-mo]

This is the biggest piece of codswallop that the yanks try to sell.

Sure they don't have a brain and get up and walk over and shoot someone but if people couldn't get their hands on them just imagine the millions of lives saved.

you're entitled to your opinion but at least inform yourself of the other view.

The idea is that it is a deterrent and if you banned gun ownership, then only the criminals would have them. there would still be a trade, and gun smuggling would become an even bigger issue.

as it is, Jo is entirely correct. this idea that guns kills people, what next, knives kill people, forks kill people, pesky fish bones kill people too?

 

[Crow-mo]

It's not just the Americans who believe that guns don't kill people! The small, but reasonably powerful gun lobby here in Australia will tell you the same thing.... until Port Arthur that was.

Nobody could tell me that a man armed with a knife (rather than an automatic weapon armed with more ammo than he could carry) is going to kill that many people before being overwhelmed and apprehended.

If this incident doesn't make the US change their gun laws, nothing will.

exactly how many guns were used in the terrorist attacks in Bali, London and in New York?

 

[Alex99]

Imbecilic people kill other people, not guns. Guns are just the easiest weapon that they can get there hands on and easiest to use. Take the guns away and they will just find something else to use like a plastic explosive or a bomb or a plane or some shit that will do damage.

If the government were serious, they would put more money into mental health issues and try and help the people who are in danger of doing theses crimes. The guy who did this shooting today could have had a mental health issue like bi polar or depression.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Remember McVeigh's brother's line from Bowling For Columbine? "I believe that the pen is mightier than the sword... but you must always have a sword handy, in case the pen fails."

 

[Markthirtytwo]

you're entitled to your opinion but at least inform yourself of the other view.

The idea is that it is a deterrent and if you banned gun ownership, then only the criminals would have them. there would still be a trade, and gun smuggling would become an even bigger issue.

as it is, Jo is entirely correct. this idea that guns kills people, what next, knives kill people, forks kill people, pesky fish bones kill people too?

I have been informed snowball. The hard way. I have seen first hand what all weapons can do and it is not a pretty sight. That is why I have the opinions I do and no stupid self righeous nung is going to change it ok?

Just let me say that if this guy had a knife or a friggen fish bone, then how many people would have he killed before someone over powered him?

And if as you say it is a deterent, then why wasn't all the weapons that the college police force had at their disposal act as a deterent to this guy? That is a piss weak excuse.

It is the manufacturers, gutless polititians and corrupt states that have ****ed up society.

And for the record, read jo's thread again, there is something you have missed.

 

[Coopers]

The problem is more the culture - that they have the right to a gun, and they'll gosh darn use it too.

A lot of TV shows depict violence and crime, yet they ban nudity and sexual themese.

The us culture glorifies solving problems spectacularly, and individually. (i.e. you're a popular hero, or you're nothing).

That all said, I don't see why anyone who is not say a farmer or a licensed sporting shooter should be allowed to get a gun. It doesn't make sense.

 

[jo172]

The idea is that it is a deterrent and if you banned gun ownership, then only the criminals would have them. there would still be a trade, and gun smuggling would become an even bigger issue.

Well it certainly proved an effective deterrent yesterday

as it is, Jo is entirely correct. this idea that guns kills people, what next, knives kill people, forks kill people, pesky fish bones kill people too?

Most murders are crimes of passion not cold blooded killings, having guns avaliable allows the murderer an impersonal contact free way of killing people. Having less guns makes murders rare. For an example compare Australia's murder rate to America's.

 

[jo172]

exactly how many guns were used in the terrorist attacks in Bali, London and in New York?

How many more people die after being shot each year then died in those terrorist attacks?

 

[Adam BK]

Imbecilic people kill other people, not guns. Guns are just the easiest weapon that they can get there hands on and easiest to use. Take the guns away and they will just find something else to use like a plastic explosive or a bomb or a plane or some shit that will do damage.

If the government were serious, they would put more money into mental health issues and try and help the people who are in danger of doing theses crimes. The guy who did this shooting today could have had a mental health issue like bi polar or depression.

I found a AOL blog entry linked on The Age websites main page and have included some of the blog entry. Its quite chilling reading it, the fact that the thought of him being a school shooter went through his head. The two plays are quite disturbing as well.

--------------------

What happened yesterday:

When I first heard about the multiple shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday, my first thought was about my friends, and my second thought was "I bet it was Seung Cho."

Cho was in my playwriting class last fall, and nobody seemed to think much of him at first. He would sit by himself whenever possible, and didn't like talking to anyone. I don't think I've ever actually heard his voice before. He was just so quiet and kept to himself. Looking back, he fit the exact stereotype of what one would typically think of as a "school shooter" – a loner, obsessed with violence, and serious personal problems. Some of us in class tried to talk to him to be nice and get him out of his shell, but he refused talking to anyone. It was like he didn't want to be friends with anybody. One friend of mine tried to offer him some Halloween candy that she still had, but he slowly shook his head, refusing it. He just came to class every day and submitted his work on time, as I understand it.

A major part of the playwriting class was peer reviews. We would write one-act plays and submit them to an online repository called Blackboard for everyone in the class to read and comment about in class the next day. Typically, the students give their opinions about the plays and suggest ways to make it better, the professor gives his insights, then asks the author to comment about the play in class.

When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.

While I "knew" Cho, I always wished there was something I could do for him, but I couldn't think of anything. As far as notifying authorities, there isn't (to my knowledge) any system set up that lets people say "Hey! This guy has some issues! Maybe you should look into this guy!" If there were, I definitely would have tried to get the kid some help. I think that could have had a good chance of averting yesterday's tragedy more than anything.

Source: http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

 

[Stiffy_18]

Well it certainly proved an effective deterrent yesterday




Most murders are crimes of passion not cold blooded killings, having guns avaliable allows the murderer an impersonal contact free way of killing people. Having less guns makes murders rare. For an example compare Australia's murder rate to America's.

But if you compare the population of one country to another its tells a vastly different story. By sheer numbers USA wins hands down. On ratio, I am not so sure.

I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Getting rod of guns doesn't neccessarily mean there would be less murderers out there. There are other means to kill someone. Guns are just one way.

 

[jo172]

But if you compare the population of one country to another its tells a vastly different story. By sheer numbers USA wins hands down. On ratio, I am not so sure.

I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Getting rod of guns doesn't neccessarily mean there would be less murderers out there. There are other means to kill someone. Guns are just one way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

The BBC seems pretty sure.

Homicide is a dreadful deed, and varies very significantly around the world. Australia's current rate at just under two per 10,000 is the same as it was at the start of this century.

The USA has a rate five times that of Australia,

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/980419_Ockham's_Razor.htm

That seems pretty sure too ...

Mate, all those cities in the top murder rates have easy to get guns. Sure people will still get murdered with out guns but many murderers find it harder to physically and emotionally commit the crime when using a knife for example it requires much more physical contact.

Also i'd like to see someone commit a crime of passion and sponatanaity kill so many people yesterday with only a knife

 

[Markthirtytwo]

But if you compare the population of one country to another its tells a vastly different story. By sheer numbers USA wins hands down. On ratio, I am not so sure.

I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Getting rod of guns doesn't neccessarily mean there would be less murderers out there. There are other means to kill someone. Guns are just one way.

Just try and get out of the way of a bullet Stiff. At least you have a chance to either escape or defend yourself with anything else apart from explosives, and we all know who use them.


I'm just waiting for someone to bring up Jonestown.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Just try and get out of the way of a bullet Stiff. At least you have a chance to either escape or defend yourself with anything else apart from explosives, and we all know who use them.


I'm just waiting for someone to bring up Jonestown.

Listen chap, unlike you I have had the bullets in me since the age of 12. I also had to have a surgery a couple of years ago to remove bullet that was left in me and had resurfaced with time.

Banning guns is step one but its is NOT the solution. What people forget here is that there are other issues that lead to these things. Having guns available is NOT the key issue.

You and I could own a gun but are we ****ed up enough to go out there and kill someone?! The answer for me is certainly no.

Now if I was suffering from a mental disorder and I was to murder someone, I wouldn't need a gun to do it.

I think people are ignoring the very key issues here. Having guns available is not THE key issue.

All this boils down to one thing, if this chap didn't have some serious mental issues, this wouldn't have happened. How can someone possibly deny this?!

I will also give you an example that happened in Belgrade about a month ago. I read it in one of the serbian papers on line. A Chinese man who was suffering from bipolar disorder went on a rampage in the main mall in Belgrade one afternoon. He killed 3 people and seriously injured 12 others. His weapon of choice was knife. All this happened in a space of 30 minutes.

These mass killings are not due to relaxed gun laws. These are due to lack of resources in mental health systems where people like these do not get the help they need and a LOT of them slip through the net so to speak.

If someone plans to go on and committ these massacers, they don't need the guns. They can go out and purchase some fertalizer and other bits and pieces and blow up the whole campus and I would assume it would cost them less than getting ther hands on a gun.