Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[Demonic Ascent]

I can’t even imagine what this sport will look like in 37 years, I see radical changes to how this comp is in that time. I don’t see any possibility that a salary cap will be in place in 37 years and if it is the amount will be massive with a much lower floor. Private ownership I still think will hit our sport eventually. Player managers and the players themselves greed will wipe out clubs.
The least concerning thing in 37 years will be where the GF is. Will be best of 3 by then anyway. Glad I won’t be around to see it . But huge change will continue to come over our game and you simply can’t be naive to think it won’t.

I don't think any of those things will happen (other than a higher salary cap).

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The demons home ground is the mcg.

We are quite happy to play them there - we do t get to play the mcg enough as it is!!!

If your busted arse broke clubs choose to sell games to wherever - its not our fault - theres too many clubs in one city.

Hang on but then you'd be flying all the way across Australia racking up frequent flyer km's. Which is it? You want less travel or you want to play at the G?

 

[kranky al]

Hang on but then you'd be flying all the way across Australia racking up frequent flyer km's. Which is it? You want less travel or you want to play at the G?

When the gf is at the g every year we need to play mcg tenants at the g.

We had one game at the mcg in 2015 before we played the gf.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

When the gf is at the g every year we need to play mcg tenants at the g.

We had one game at the mcg in 2015 before we played the gf.

Ohhh so that's why you got hammered by the Hawks.

In 2018 you played at the G twice in H&A yet won the flag?

In 2015 Hawks played Subiaco once in H&A and once in Finals before the Prelim yet still beat Freo.

Perhaps it's the strength of the team and not necessarily the venue which determines the winner in big games/finals?

 

[kranky al]

Ohhh so that's why you got hammered by the Hawks.

In 2018 you played at the G twice in H&A yet won the flag?

In 2015 Hawks played Subiaco once in H&A and once in Finals before the Prelim yet still beat Freo.

Perhaps it's the strength of the team and not necessarily the venue which determines the winner in big games/finals?

Perhaps the gf location should be rotated so there is a much lower likelihood of a team having hga on the day and so its not a factor.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Perhaps the gf location should be rotated so there is a much lower likelihood of a team having hga on the day and so its not a factor.

Nah, its at the G and its there to stay.

End of discussion.

 

[kranky al]

Nah, its at the G and its there to stay.

End of discussion.

You would like it to be the end of the discussion.

Thats what we were told when we had to play home finals in melbourne too.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You would like it to be the end of the discussion.

Thats what we were told when we had to play home finals in melbourne too.

OK, come back to me in 2060 and see if the GF has been moved yet.

 

[kranky al]

OK, come back to me in 2060 and see if the GF has been moved yet.

See my hit theory is by then we will have had to have moved to a best of three before that.

Stupid - but hey they signed a ridiculous contract a ridiculous number of years out to retain their right to stroll down.

Cheats.

 

[Rob]

You know why? Stadium deal. They got a very good one. One that wasnt available to any other club in the league, except Geelong and much later, Gold Coast.

Theres some irony in that the 1989-90 collapse of IPL is thought to have been avoidable if they had the same deal the Crows had with the SANFL (according to Soaring). But since the WAFC took over and the Eagles got their fixed arrangements in place its been daylight and none.

With all due respect, that's a complete load of shit Wookie. The Eagles are by far the biggest club because they draw huge crowds consistently at huge prices.

No other club with the possible exception of Adelaide - can consistently get 50k+ crowds against teams that bring very few fans of their own. Richmond have done it 6 times in their entire existence. You know how many games it took West Coast to achieve that once they were playing at a stadium with sufficient capacity? 6.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the stadium deal.

 

[doppleganger]

With all due respect, that's a complete load of sh*t Wookie. The Eagles are by far the biggest club because they draw huge crowds consistently at huge prices.

No other club with the possible exception of Adelaide - can consistently get 50k+ crowds against teams that bring very few fans of their own. Richmond have done it 6 times in their entire existence. You know how many games it took West Coast to achieve that once they were playing at a stadium with sufficient capacity? 6.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the stadium deal.

Did WC only become a big club when Optus was introduced?

Sure being the only expansion franchise in town for a decade, meant were always going to have big support.

Favourable stadium deals enable clubs to turn support into $$.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Did WC only become a big club when Optus was introduced?

Sure being the only expansion franchise in town for a decade, meant were always going to have big support.

Favourable stadium deals enable clubs to turn support into $$.

Why do clubs put up with poor management signing deals that are bad for their club? Every club with a bad stadium deal it is in them. They signed up to the bad deal. It’s about time clubs expected the people running their clubs to do a far better job.

 

[doppleganger]

What isnt fair is that one states team get every gf.

What is fair is that its shared between all the srates.

LoL

The states arent created equal.

Even in your golden league, the NFL, they dont share the SuperBowl equally...it has never been to Chicago or Seattle.

Seattle is the Perth equivalent, the isolated West Coast city...it aint going there any time soon either.

Superbowls are dominated by warm populous areas like California, Texas, Florida and the Domed stadium in New Orleans.

Adopt that same logic to Australia

Population hubs are all east coast.

Suitable stadium is really only the G...
GABBA, SCG old and small.
Kardinia Park not uo to scratch.
Second best optiom would be the Marvel dome...but as our GF isnt played in middle of winter, you dont want/need the indoor option.

It isnt "fair" but shit is never fair on a national scale for those who live in isolated places.

 

[Papa G]

LoL

The states arent created equal.

Even in your golden league, the NFL, they dont share the SuperBowl equally...it has never been to Chicago or Seattle.

Seattle is the Perth equivalent, the isolated West Coast city...it aint going there any time soon either.

Superbowls are dominated by warm populous areas like California, Texas, Florida and the Domed stadium in New Orleans.

Adopt that same logic to Australia

Population hubs are all east coast.

Suitable stadium is really only the G...
GABBA, SCG old and small.
Kardinia Park not uo to scratch.
Second best optiom would be the Marvel dome...but as our GF isnt played in middle of winter, you dont want/need the indoor option.

It isnt "fair" but sh*t is never fair on a national scale for those who live in isolated places.

Lol. Idiotic. Commercial air travel for the common folk has existed for quite some time now. If an important game was held outside these East Coast Population centres, I'm sure the simple denizens of these population centres could find an airport.

 

[The_Wookie]

With all due respect, that's a complete load of sh*t Wookie. The Eagles are by far the biggest club because they draw huge crowds consistently at huge prices.

No other club with the possible exception of Adelaide - can consistently get 50k+ crowds against teams that bring very few fans of their own. Richmond have done it 6 times in their entire existence. You know how many games it took West Coast to achieve that once they were playing at a stadium with sufficient capacity? 6.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the stadium deal.

With all due respect. Your ignoring the large amounts of money West Coast recieve from the stadium deal. Yes member revenue is high, but corporate hospitality and other stadium revenues dwarf everyone elses too.

In 2019, Collingwood and Richmond made 30m in membership and matchday, West Coast made 35m - 24m in membership, 9 million in gate revenues. In addition West Coast made another 14m in corporate hospitality, and 4m in signage.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

With all due respect. Your ignoring the large amounts of money West Coast recieve from the stadium deal. Yes member revenue is high, but corporate hospitality and other stadium revenues dwarf everyone elses too.

In 2019, Collingwood and Richmond made 30m in membership and matchday, West Coast made 35m - 24m in membership, 9 million in gate revenues. In addition West Coast made another 14m in corporate hospitality, and 4m in signage.

How come the big VIC clubs don’t have the corporate support in Melbourne mate? Is that because of the AFL club and the MCC?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Why do clubs put up with poor management signing deals that are bad for their club? Every club with a bad stadium deal it is in them. They signed up to the bad deal. It’s about time clubs expected the people running their clubs to do a far better job.

I think it was North or the Dogs that didn't even have a deal for several years but were still scheduled by the AFL to play at docklands to meet the afls contractual obligations. Club's have no power to negotiate when the AFL schedules the games when they want anyway. Let's say Carlton, Essendon, North, Dogs and Saints all try to sign separate agreement with the MCG how do you think that is going to work? Carlton wanted to continue playing out of Princes Park and were basically shunted out by the AFL.

 

[bh90210fan]

With all due respect. Your ignoring the large amounts of money West Coast recieve from the stadium deal. Yes member revenue is high, but corporate hospitality and other stadium revenues dwarf everyone elses too.

In 2019, Collingwood and Richmond made 30m in membership and matchday, West Coast made 35m - 24m in membership, 9 million in gate revenues. In addition West Coast made another 14m in corporate hospitality, and 4m in signage.

Do Fremantle have the same deal? I can’t find anything. Would be interesting to know considering they are among the best earners through membership and ticket sales yet lag behind when it comes to revenue

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I think it was North or the Dogs that didn't even have a deal for several years but were still scheduled by the AFL to play at docklands to meet the afls contractual obligations. Club's have no power to negotiate when the AFL schedules the games when they want anyway. Let's say Carlton, Essendon, North, Dogs and Saints all try to sign separate agreement with the MCG how do you think that is going to work? Carlton wanted to continue playing out of Princes Park and were basically shunted out by the AFL.

I can’t imagine VIC clubs being bullied by the AFL unless there was something in it for them. Still just excuses for poorly run clubs, what do you reckon West Coast fans would do if they found out their club makes no money from their stadium deal? Nisbett would be fine in an instant.
I am not saying they should be negotiating direct I am saying they should refuse to sign up to anything with the AFL unless it is profitable for their club and it’s members. If 10 VIC clubs stood side by side and said no then the AFL are ****ed. Obviously some clubs are getting a good deal and others are being forced to cop it up the backside for the so call good of VIC footy that only benefits a few clubs. Makes zero sense and is totally unprofessional.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I can’t imagine VIC clubs being bullied by the AFL unless there was something in it for them. Still just excuses for poorly run clubs, what do you reckon West Coast fans would do if they found out their club makes no money from their stadium deal? Nisbett would be fine in an instant.
I am not saying they should be negotiating direct I am saying they should refuse to sign up to anything with the AFL unless it is profitable for their club and it’s members. If 10 VIC clubs stood side by side and said no then the AFL are f’ed. Obviously some clubs are getting a good deal and others are being forced to cop it up the backside for the so call good of VIC footy that only benefits a few clubs. Makes zero sense and is totally unprofessional.

You can't imagine Vic clubs being bullied by the AFL? It's not just Collingwood, Essendon and Richmond over here you know.

If you were in North or St. Kilda's position, how would you go about trying to get a better stadium deal? What leverage would you use?

 

[Rob]

With all due respect. Your ignoring the large amounts of money West Coast recieve from the stadium deal. Yes member revenue is high, but corporate hospitality and other stadium revenues dwarf everyone elses too.

In 2019, Collingwood and Richmond made 30m in membership and matchday, West Coast made 35m - 24m in membership, 9 million in gate revenues. In addition West Coast made another 14m in corporate hospitality, and 4m in signage.

That's not revenue from the stadium deal, that's revenue from supporters and sponsors.

You think they sign their deal and the revenue just comes flooding in? No, they get their revenue by selling product.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the cheapest adult ticket to a West Coast game is $57. Most tickets are $90+. And they sell. That you think the revenue flows from the stadium deal and not from the people that buy the product shows an inherent misunderstanding as to where football clubs derive their revenue.

 

[kranky al]

LoL

The states arent created equal.

Even in your golden league, the NFL, they dont share the SuperBowl equally...it has never been to Chicago or Seattle.

Seattle is the Perth equivalent, the isolated West Coast city...it aint going there any time soon either.

Superbowls are dominated by warm populous areas like California, Texas, Florida and the Domed stadium in New Orleans.

Adopt that same logic to Australia

Population hubs are all east coast.

Suitable stadium is really only the G...
GABBA, SCG old and small.
Kardinia Park not uo to scratch.
Second best optiom would be the Marvel dome...but as our GF isnt played in middle of winter, you dont want/need the indoor option.

It isnt "fair" but sh*t is never fair on a national scale for those who live in isolated places.

Yes but the fact that it moves every year has meant only two teams have ever had hga in the superbowls history.

Thanks for playing…..

 

[doppleganger]

Lol. Idiotic. Commercial air travel for the common folk has existed for quite some time now. If an important game was held outside these East Coast Population centres, I'm sure the simple denizens of these population centres could find an airport.

Way to completely miss the point (pretty normal for you!).

NFL superbowl isnt shared equally.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Why do clubs put up with poor management signing deals that are bad for their club? Every club with a bad stadium deal it is in them. They signed up to the bad deal. It’s about time clubs expected the people running their clubs to do a far better job.

Bolded reminds me of another debate, but anyway.

You still need the right people in there to be able to oust the wrong people. I personally commend the Eagles for what they have achieved on and off the field in the last 35 years. I have a really good mate who spent quite a few years on the playing list at West Coast and still raves about the club, except for Ken Judge and Rod Lester-Smith, who he claims were a liability to the club. Fortunately the Eags had the right people on the board who stifled the damage they both did. But we all salivate over the corporate money that the club has rolling in each season.

 

[doppleganger]

Yes but the fact that it moves every year has meant only two teams have ever had hga in the superbowls history.

Thanks for playing…..

The only reason it moves every year in the US is because the US has multiple large population hubs, and stadiums worthy of hosting it.

Australia only has one.

It isnt rotated or shared fairly.

Thanks for playing.