Review Good/Bad/Ugly vs Richmond, R5 2022

[AFC979810]

Basically what Doedee does, without defending?

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Ha. You can make the same case against Doedee. Doedee gets the #3 forward and at every opportunity is the loose defender. He is not a great 1 on 1 defender. Nuffies try to bring up 3 direct goals against Frampton, but fail to bring up the 2 huge mistakes of Doedees that lead to a goal for Richmond.

Doedee was on Castagna - halfway through the 2nd quarter (10 minute mark) and was lazily ball watching. Castagna escapes and has 15 meters. Marks easily 25 out and kicks the goal.

3rd Quarter - Richmond have momentum. Doedee gets a loose ball in the goalsquare, fumbles it. Picks it up and slips and Riewoldt kicks the goal.

Blunders happen to all defenders. Doedee and Frampton were both good against Richmond and deserve their spot next week.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is when you made the claim.

Read it again.

When did I claim AFC read what is posted on this board.

You really struggle at times that this is a football discussion board...

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Frampton drives me mad.

Fogarty is not delivering on his talent.

Shoenberg has regressed.

Jones panics under pressure.

Is there a lot that these guys are doing wrong? Yep.

But three weeks ago Himmelberg was a waste of a list spot.

Is there something to work with in these guys that might actually grow into an asset for the team? Absolutely.

Frampton in the back lines needs work. He needs to spoil first, the fumbles have to go, his positioning needs fixing. How many other 200cm backmen have all that covered off the bat? Frampton does some things really well. He seems calm once he has the ball, his disposal is pretty good.

I’m looking for those “penny drop” transformations for our inexperienced group over this season. Judge them over the whole 22 rounds.

Right now, I’m seeing good signs in our structure and attitude. The results aren’t terrible

While Frampton frustrated me no end as a forward for some reason I can cop some of his errors in defence as he also brings some strengths

Happy to see him given more time and experience there

 

[1970crow]

He's still contracted for 2023, so he has time to recover and get back.

... but by that time he'll be another year older, and he was already barely up to it this year. It could be very difficult for him, if he does choose to try and get back on the field.

I agree it could end up being a sad way to see such a great and loyal soldier for the club ending up... and he didn't even get the standing ovation send off that Chris Judd received, when his career ended the same way.

It’s a difficult one. I’d hate to see him come back and play terribly and then have to go out like that. If they could somehow hold him back till maybe the last few games. Maybe a tune up in the SANFL and then play the last couple of games with a proper final AFL game send off.

 

[feenix67]

Sorry, should have said, “that people cheer…..”. Not you specifically, but people love these lunatics until they turn on something/somebody that they love.

Oh, right that makes more sense.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Worrell is talented but isn't a key defender. He has almost zero ability to defend talls one on one. Just physically isn't up to it, sadly.

Lol, how can you make this claim when he hasn't even been given a decent chance at AFL level.

Even if true, hopefully he would fumble less & have reduced turnovers compared to his incumbent.

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

I enjoyed Cook's game. Seemed to be getting to the right spots and used it well. We seem to be using him as a half back though. Would prefer to have him delivering the ball inside 50.

Cook played on the wing along with Sholl.

Our wingmen run deep into defence. Our defenders were Brown, Butts, Doedee, Smith, Frampton, Dawson and Jones.

 

[CrowHop]

Ugly:

Frampton & ROB. Good moments here and there will paper over their enormouse issues and both had a hand in costing us multiple goals today. No I will not relent.

So tell us exactly what you’d do with our backline in Billy’s absence to make us better. Don’t be a relentless whinger, come up with your solution.


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[Mego Red]

Read it again.

When did I claim AFC read what is posted on this board.

You really struggle at times that this is a football discussion board...

I literally posted when you said what the poster claimed you said, and what you denied.

Just take the L and move on.

 

[footy4ever]

Missus and I went to port prelim last year and were right up the top of the southern stand. It was awesome watching all the angles opening up. Much better than high up on the wing IMO.

I always try to watch from '3/4 view point'...higher up watching slightly closer to goal than where the 50m line touches the boundary. IMO the best viewpoint to see the entire movement and positioning in a game, and a nice compromise to the foreshortening effect that you get sitting directly behind the goals.

 

[Mego Red]

Lol, how can you make this claim when he hasn't even been given a decent chance at AFL level.

Even if true, hopefully he would fumble less & have reduced turnovers compared to his incumbent.

I have watched every game he's played in the SANFL.

He's talented but he's a third tall. Shit, at the moment in the SANFL he's our FOURTH tall defender. He's doesn't have the core strength to defend players one on one. Literally anyone who's watched him could see this.

Could he develop it? Maybe, but he's not near yet.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I literally posted when you said what the poster claimed you said, and what you denied.

Just take the L and move on.

Again you can't read!

I never said that AFC read what is posted on here.

Show me this quote claiming that I did.

 

[CrowHop]

Lol, how can you make this claim when he hasn't even been given a decent chance at AFL level.

Even if true, hopefully he would fumble less & have reduced turnovers compared to his incumbent.

Surely we’d want to see it in the SANFL first though? And if he’s not considered good enough to do it given Fish’s poor form, then surely he’s not ready for an AFL call up ?


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[CroCop]

Worrell is talented but isn't a key defender. He has almost zero ability to defend talls one on one. Just physically isn't up to it, sadly.

Needs to be played up forward . Keep saying it under 18s footage for VIC metro reminds me of Cameron from Geelong /GWS with his fwd movement .

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I have watched every game he's played in the SANFL.

He's talented but he's a third tall. Shit, at the moment in the SANFL he's our FOURTH tall defender. He's doesn't have the core strength to defend players one on one. Literally anyone who's watched him could see this.

Could he develop it? Maybe, but he's not near yet.

This is the thing - we won't know whether he can make it if we never play him at AFL level.

In a rebuild I would prefer for us to try all options.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Surely we’d want to see it in the SANFL first though? And if he’s not considered good enough to do it given Fish’s poor form, then surely he’s not ready for an AFL call up ?


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I posted last night thay McAsey doesn't warrant selecting given he is showing little at sanfl level.

But we need to find someone who can actually defend to play as our 2nd key defender.

 

[Mego Red]

Again you can't read!

I never said that AFC read what is posted on here.

Show me this quote claiming that I did.

What the f***?

We were literally talking about the pointless negativity of the posting on here, and you defended it by saying "how would we improve if we accept mediocrity". To which people said - it doesn't MATTER what we accept or don't on here, we have zero influence.

Which part of the conversation did you not understand? All that's happened is people have pointed out exactly what you said.

 

[Jirkago75]

You made some fair and interesting points without sarcasm or getting personal, thank you.

Before the game, I wondered:
--- what Nicks would do with Sloane (more CBAs as usual or a change of tactic?). It was the latter which most BF posters have called for, for weeks, and it worked. Great!
--- specifically, how Tex/ McAdam/ Mrouch/ McHenry/ Murphy/ EH/ Billy/ Dawson/RoB/ Sholl/ Berry would play.
In that process, I noticed Billy's early fumbles in traffic/packs/under pressure and RoB's ruckwork, especially the number of times he tapped to, or to the advantage of, Richmond players.

I wasn't watching or hoping that they would fail; I'd love to see them both doing well to the Crows' benefit.

After all that's been said and explained (and smartarsed @ me) I am still of the opinion that
1) Billy is not an AFL standard player. Any competent SANFL player can do what he does in space, but under AFL pressure he fumbles, a lot, and made errors which cost the Crows at least 2 goals last night ie Billy fumbled, they goaled within 2 or 3 possessions.
But as you pointed out, Murray is not playing well and McAsey is languishing in the SANFL not showing any improvement. Why the Crows chose McAsey and why he has been so ordinary is beyond me.

2) "Frampton was ok ..." (you) and similar statements by others just means "Frampton was not as bad as he usually is". Such statements are hardly an endorsement, but again he is and will be CHB because of his height and availability (availa-BILLY-ty? ) and no-one else has put up their hand. Murray/McAsey were drafted for that KPD role.

3) it's been reported that Strachan played well in the SANFL, again, and I'd like to see RoB replaced by him.

4) and this is most important, I'd love to see Frampton do well, really lift his game, lose those fumbles and be a force at CHB. I have not seen any evidence, yet, that he will.
EH has stepped up --- his marking/goaling has been Tex-like and that ball-snaffle-snapped-goal was elite.
It would be great if Frampton did too.

I’ve seen Frampton stink it up and play ok, due to his age. I’d let him play most of the year given our options and if he doesn’t improve, we let him fo but if he improves then we play him.

I lot on this board used to hammer Mackay but no one really came in and performed his role for the coaches to dump him for more then a game or 2, (I’m sure some one will correct me if I’m wrong). Same thing will be the case with Frampton, if Murray or McAsey play better then we will drop him. At the moment it’s his position to lose

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What the f***?

We were literally talking about the pointless negativity of the posting on here, and you defended it by saying "how would we improve if we accept mediocrity". To which people said - it doesn't MATTER what we accept or don't on here, we have zero influence.

Which part of the conversation did you not understand? All that's happened is people have pointed out exactly what you said.

You really seem to struggle that this is a football discussion board for us to discuss all things about the Crows - the good & the bad.

I never claimed what is said here influences AFC... but so what!

If you can't handle criticism, perhaps this isn't the place for you...

 

[CrowHop]

I posted last night thay McAsey doesn't warrant selecting given he is showing little at sanfl level.

But we need to find someone who can actually defend to play as our 2nd key defender.

Agreed, maybe Worrell needs to start being groomed in the sanfl for such a position. Not the silliest idea.


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[Vader]

Which means he's like Billy.

Well, no... "Worrell is talented" puts him one step ahead of Billy.

 

[adelaide_girl]

It doesn't matter what we "accept". We're just anonymous fans on an internet forum. Literally nothing we do or say has any influence on whether the team improves.

This board has become absolutely cooked. Just more and more negative bitterness, no matter what actually happens. The number of people on here who seem to be genuinely hoping that players go badly so they're proven right has gone through the roof.

Been around since 2004 on the board nothing changes - only new whipping boys when the old one retires. For what it’s worth I was at the game and every time Frampton was near the ball I held my breath.

He consistently fumbled, wasn’t alone as other players did to, difference was where Billy fumbled put huge pressure on the rest of the defence.

Against a Melbourne we would have been punished.

I hate the whole let’s collectively bag a whipping boy mentality on the board - but sadly yesterday framptons fumbles really did show. If it was a debutant or someone fresh in the system I would agree with you, but he’s been around a long time.

However, Berg is showing what patience and confidence does do for a player - so perhaps if billy gets his shit together quickly and no one in the SANFL steps up we might see more composure.


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[feenix67]

Hypothetical: if Berg continues with this form for the season, would you trade him to GWS, Gold Coast, WB etc for one of their emerging quick mids?

It would be a brave call, not one we're prone to make, but given we have RT, I probably would.

 

[hey shorty]

Hypothetical: if Berg continues with this form for the season, would you trade him to GWS, Gold Coast, WB etc for one of their emerging quick mids?

It would be a brave call, not one we're prone to make, but given we have RT, I probably would.

Yep.

Bring in a mid and grab Lemmy

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Cook played on the wing along with Sholl.

Our wingmen run deep into defence. Our defenders were Brown, Butts, Doedee, Smith, Frampton, Dawson and Jones.

Yep. My bad. Probably just noticed him getting more of the footy in the back line.