Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[El Topo]

Kelly & Whitfield have been ahead of him at GWS, no doubt he is good player, but with the ageing Richmond list with so many players over 30, l don't see him making the difference to win a premiership, they most likely will have to give up at their 1st 2nd picks in this draft and next year's 1st to get both, which is going to hurt them based on their age profile of their list in the long term.

This isn't a Geelong/Hawthorn situation, their mid-age and under group is still better than most. Posters calling it an act of desperation are whistling past the graveyard.

 

[macky99]

This isn't a Geelong/Hawthorn situation, their mid-age and under group is still better than most. Posters calling it an act of desperation are whistling past the graveyard.

Martin/Riewoldt/Cotchin & among others have been the core strength of their team, sometimes you can go on too long, some of those may fall off the cliff next year being another year older, it is a risky decision that could backfire in a few years time, l believe someone gave the West Coast exampe giving up so much for Tim Kelly after winning a flag, same thing could very well happen at Richmond.

The alternative may have been to invest in the draft and take the longer term view to build a younger list over the next 2 years.

 

[Aphrodite]

Haha I didn’t read that far, I’ll go back and take a look

IF ...​

the Roos seriously offered their first pick in the draft to Carlton for Harry McKay ...

THEN ...​

it would at least open a conversation. Maybe they already have.

 

[skadoosh]

Back to important issues surrounding our club...is Ross Lyon a Carlton mod yet, or are we forcing him to go through the process?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

You didn’t follow up with Barrett’s speculation in the same article that North should offer Carlton the number one pick for Harry McKay (and that maybe they already have)

I am of the view that it'd take more than just pick #1 for a 205cm KPF who won the coleman at 23

Conversation should go:
Norf: "hey, pick one for Harry?"
Carlton: "mmm.. nah"
Harry: "**** no"
Norf: whimpers

 

[thecotch]

Not getting them for nothing... remember that. Hopper is contracted and GWS will want a nice present for him....

Taranto with 7 freaking years lol... looks like they're desperately trying to cling onto their dynasty. Don't blame them to be honest, but can't help but think they will be selling the farm to get these two in...

Fair points but we had a super draft last year with 5 picks inside the top 30. This new draft hall was clearly planned for some big fish no doubt.

 

[Forty3]

Don’t want to spoil the party, and I understand that we don’t like Richmond.
But some of the stuff being said here is ridiculous (more so than normal)
Hopper is a very good player, and exactly what the tigers need, an extracting mid.
Taranto is a legit star with x-factor abilities to win games.
Most of us here have wanted one of both of these players the last 5 seasons.

Yes it will cost the tigers a lot. Probably ‘22 - 1st round, ‘22 - pick 19, ‘23 - 1st round and a player or two (soldo, RCD, maybe even Graham) depending on who gsw want.

But they have done this very well, they took 5 players in the top 30 last year, two of which (Gibcus and Sonsie) have already shown they will be top quality.

Their backline is very good, Lynch, dusty and Bolton up forward with a couple of younger ones coming on are dangerous, and what has been their weakness the last couple of years has become their strength with these two additions.

From the view point of a Carlton fan, I hate that they’ve nailed it.
But from a fan of list management, it’s pretty impressive work.

To me it just confirms what we already know, but somehow get the feeling some people here feel different. For us to win it, we need to get better! We can’t just be holding out hope that the good teams get worse!

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Kelly & Whitfield have been ahead of him at GWS, no doubt he is good player, but with the ageing Richmond list with so many players over 30, l don't see him making the difference to win a premiership, they most likely will have to give up at their 1st 2nd picks in this draft and next year's 1st to get both, which is going to hurt them based on their age profile of their list in the long term.

Richmond won't be fazed by missing out on the 1st few rounds this year and next to bring in 2 very good players to beef up their midfield.

They have a fair few of their best players to come off their list over the next 2-3 years and they will attack free agency.

They brought in 5 kids in last year's draft and are very happy with them.

 

[Aphrodite]

Have I stumbled across the Richmond Board!

 

[Gethelred]

RCD is pretty bad mate.

While Hopper’s 2021 season wasn’t fair off being elite.

This is a big move for the Tigers and probably reopens their flag window.

Crazy stuff.

Don't think so.

They won flags off the back of ceding the clearance to set up around the periphery of the stoppage, hoping to pressure that clearance and go from turnover. With Taranto and Hopper, their clearance setup will change drastically away from this; why would you trade away substantial draft capital and a significant whack of salary for two mids with inside capability if you're not going to use them to play inside?

The only reason they could sustain their manic tackling pressure was that the pressure was the point; they launched everything from intercept and turnover. To actually possess the ball and win the clearance, your positioning is different and should you not get it you need to go even harder to compensate for that position change; they exhausted you, slammed you to the ground over and over, got you feeling the referred pressure, then unleashed a fresh Dusty, Cotchin, Edwards on you late in games. You can't play that way if you're setting up to win the clearance, you'll run out of legs.

They'll potentially make finals, but contention will be beyond them.

 

[El Topo]

so much cope in this thread

 

[teagueyubeauty]

You change your game style to suit, yeah they probably wont have that manic game style they’ve had for 5 years but that’s a coaching panel puzzle how to get the best out of the group.

Geelong supporters were a very sad lot with Scott for probably the last 3-4 years, chip/chip game style that got them into contention but was found out under the heat of finals footy. This year, they’ve changed it up significantly and a few Cats supporters I know are even more angry Scott didn’t do it earlier.

But you find the game style that suits your strengths and negates your weaknesses, coaches live and die by it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Magruder]

This isn't a Geelong/Hawthorn situation, their mid-age and under group is still better than most. Posters calling it an act of desperation are whistling past the graveyard.

more calculated risk than desperation.

 

[F_therest]

IF ...​

the Roos seriously offered their first pick in the draft to Carlton for Harry McKay ...

THEN ...​

it would at least open a conversation. Maybe they already have.

Yeah, let's trade last year's Coleman medallist and a key forward entering his prime, who forms our twin towers with Charlie JUST as we're entering our premiership window for a draft pick...

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Have I stumbled across the Richmond Board!

Time to invoke your super cleanup powers?

 

[branedotorg]

IF ...​

the Roos seriously offered their first pick in the draft to Carlton for Harry McKay ...

THEN ...​

it would at least open a conversation. Maybe they already have.

IF ...​

we think he's leaving next year

THEN ...​

you'd be stupid not to test his value as a pre-agent

big

IF​

though

 

[Benaly28]

Don’t want to spoil the party, and I understand that we don’t like Richmond.
But some of the stuff being said here is ridiculous (more so than normal)
Hopper is a very good player, and exactly what the tigers need, an extracting mid.
Taranto is a legit star with x-factor abilities to win games.
Most of us here have wanted one of both of these players the last 5 seasons.

Yes it will cost the tigers a lot. Probably ‘22 - 1st round, ‘22 - pick 19, ‘23 - 1st round and a player or two (soldo, RCD, maybe even Graham) depending on who gsw want.

But they have done this very well, they took 5 players in the top 30 last year, two of which (Gibcus and Sonsie) have already shown they will be top quality.

Their backline is very good, Lynch, dusty and Bolton up forward with a couple of younger ones coming on are dangerous, and what has been their weakness the last couple of years has become their strength with these two additions.

From the view point of a Carlton fan, I hate that they’ve nailed it.
But from a fan of list management, it’s pretty impressive work.

To me it just confirms what we already know, but somehow get the feeling some people here feel different. For us to win it, we need to get better! We can’t just be holding out hope that the good teams get worse!

Respect what you say but don’t share your optimism re those two.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Forty3]

IF ...​

we think he's leaving next year

THEN ...​

you'd be stupid not to test his value as a pre-agent

big

IF​

though

IF

the Roos offered their first pick this year, first pick next year and the 1999 premiership cup

THEN

I’d still be expected Harry to sign on long term with us before round 1 next year, most likely even before Christmas this year.

 

[Kenny Hunter09]

IF

the Roos offered their first pick this year, first pick next year and the 1999 premiership cup

THEN

I’d still be expected Harry to sign on long term with us before round 1 next year, most likely even before Christmas this year.

Hypothesizing, waiting to see the impact that the new TV deal will have on player benefits/salary cap?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Don't think so.

They won flags off the back of ceding the clearance to set up around the periphery of the stoppage, hoping to pressure that clearance and go from turnover. With Taranto and Hopper, their clearance setup will change drastically away from this; why would you trade away substantial draft capital and a significant whack of salary for two mids with inside capability if you're not going to use them to play inside?

The only reason they could sustain their manic tackling pressure was that the pressure was the point; they launched everything from intercept and turnover. To actually possess the ball and win the clearance, your positioning is different and should you not get it you need to go even harder to compensate for that position change; they exhausted you, slammed you to the ground over and over, got you feeling the referred pressure, then unleashed a fresh Dusty, Cotchin, Edwards on you late in games. You can't play that way if you're setting up to win the clearance, you'll run out of legs.

They'll potentially make finals, but contention will be beyond them.

Naive to think that they're going to slot two clearance mids into their side and not tinker with the gameplan...

 

[Gethelred]

Naive to think that they're going to slot two clearance mids into their side and not tinker with the gameplan...

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

By slotting them in and tinkering with their gameplan, they move away from what made them successful in the first place to become another side that just wants to win the ball. Even with Hopper and Taranto, they're not going to be able to beat Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane around the ball.

Their gameplan is what made them successful in the way it centred resting their quality early to unleash them late, whilst exhausting those sides who wanted to win the ball. Change that gameplan, and they're simply a team with good players playing a conventional game with a conventional structure, and are not the powerhouse they were.

 

[Funk]

I don't think Richmond would be overpaying at all giving up three late first rounders for Taranto and Hopper.

The average output of picks 11-20 is 88 matches*. Three times that is ~265 matches. That's about what Richmond should get out of Taranto and Hopper over their contracts. And at a better quality than the average of what you would get from the drafting lucky dip.

I think getting two known quantities, mid-aged, good players is a decent return for that kind of outlay.




* 88 matches is dragged down by a couple of factors. #1) Early draft years which were hit and miss #2) It includes recent drafts where players have not finished their careers, so their numbers will still go up. On the other hand, it also includes plenty of development matches pumped into young kids that haven't hit their peak. So happy to use 88 matches as a proxy of 'good output'.

This makes way too much sense ferrisb

Stick to making jokes

 

[Forty3]

Hypothesizing, waiting to see the impact that the new TV deal will have on player benefits/salary cap?

Not really, you’d be hard pressed to find a player these days that didn’t have it written into their contract that any % salary cap increase would be passed on in equal % to the players salary.
Changes in the salary cap don’t really change a clubs TPP. Unless you’ve got a terrible player manager.

I’d suggest it’s just he still has a year to run on his contract, he’s just finished off a tough season, he’s taking his time to refresh and the Carlton social media team is working on something hilarious to put together.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

By slotting them in and tinkering with their gameplan, they move away from what made them successful in the first place to become another side that just wants to win the ball. Even with Hopper and Taranto, they're not going to be able to beat Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane around the ball.

Their gameplan is what made them successful in the way it centred resting their quality early to unleash them late, whilst exhausting those sides who wanted to win the ball. Change that gameplan, and they're simply a team with good players playing a conventional game with a conventional structure, and are not the powerhouse they were.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't think Richmond were a "concede every stoppage and slingshot" kind of side when they were winning flags. That's been a more recent evolution. They were a hard-running, hard-tackling unit who constantly forced the ball forward and to ground where their smalls could get to work.

Adding Hopper and Taranto only changes their style dramatically if you assume they're replacing something other than a midfielder.

Cotchin is on the decline and has a 1yr deal, Prestia is succumbing to constant soft tissue injuries, Martin is on the decline and probably more a third or fourth forward option now.

Taranto replaces Cotchin, Hopper replaces Prestia, Bolton has stepped up to cover Dusty - think they know what they're doing.

 

[Ash24]

Any posters able to confirm or deny some rumours going round that Jack Carroll may be part of the Acres trade? Personally I call BS but thought I should ask.