List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Blutopia]

Sorry have to disagree...

TDK is no where near Darcy...
Darcy has him covered in every stat, at the same age...

TDK is statistically a long way off the top ruckman in the comp... He might have had some sensational moments, but was hardly sensational overall...
He no doubt had his best year and has great upside to unlock, but hasn't reached it yet...

I'd 100% keep him and I also think he gets unfairly compared here and in the media to his brother, who has had a sensational year...
Just because his brother is a KPD doesn't mean that Tom is, they are different people...

Tom De Koning and Sean Darcy AFL Stats Comparison

Tom De Koning and Sean Darcy AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

Share

www.afl.com.au

I actually mostly agree with you.

I just think that ruckman develop a bit later generally and his body type is very athletic but he still lacks the genuine size to compete. Darcy developed into a monster earlier than most, similar to Grundy.
Point was that his upside potential could be bigger than Darcy in overall career IMO.
Would be mad to offload him.
Give it one more year. If no massive improvement then start talking trades.
His brother has been amazing but looking at body types, TDK’s position is harder to become a star than his bro’s.
Don’t mind the idea of testing him out CHB.

 

[rp84]

Surprised we haven't moved on more of our fringe players, for draft picks tbh...

The next 4-5 drafts are going to be critical to nail, for prolonged success...
With Tassie likely coming in 2028 and all the concessions they will get, followed by after the TV rights you'd assume a NT 20th licence...

The team that nails these drafts are the ones that are likely to be contending for easier premierships through the heavy concession period and the teams that are in the bottom 8 are going to struggle more than ever... Like we did when GWS and Gold Coast came in...

Players from this draft will be hitting their prime 24-25 range, in 2028 when Tassie are likely to join...

I really don't want NT to get a team.

What a basket case that would be.

Can't get anyone to live on the GC, let alone the battlegrounds of western Sydney.

Tassie, while they deserve a team in theory will be a nightmare for players retention. No young kid with money will choose to live there. They will end up overpaying for a whole bunch of b graders after their rookie contracts are up. IMO, the only way tassie worked was clarkson going as coach or forcing north down there or both.

Gws is just a waste of space, time and money. the sun's will be too soon unless they have a huge couple of years.

A team in NT would be an absolute train wreck.

 

[Blutopia]

I really don't want NT to get a team.

What a basket case that would be.

Can't get anyone to live on the GC, let alone the battlegrounds of western Sydney.

Tassie, while they deserve a team in theory will be a nightmare for players retention. No young kid with money will choose to live there. They will end up overpaying for a whole bunch of b graders after their rookie contracts are up. IMO, the only way tassie worked was clarkson going as coach or forcing north down there or both.

Gws is just a waste of space, time and money. the sun's will be too soon unless they have a huge couple of years.

A team in NT would be an absolute train wreck.

Agree with most of what you say.

But in regards to GWS and Suns…
Suns are more of a basket case than GWS. Membership numbers over past few years consistently back that up. This year GWS 32k and suns only 21k.
North had about 35k only a few years back if I recall correctly.

GWS will build and grow especially if they have more on field success.

Suns need to get successful soon or they may only have a 5 year window in comp.

NT no chance in most of our lifetimes.

Tassie will probably work but I don’t see it ever getting out of bottom 3 membership wise although they would have a fiercely passionate member base.

 

[Michael Jezz]

How does Geelong, Collingwood, not do any major rebuilds and keep making finals, grand finals, etc,
The AFL Draft is not working, you won't see geelong do a rebuild like the Blues, too long don't win many games etc.

Carlton is weak above the shoulders
Geelong and Collingwood are strong above the shoulders

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton is weak above the shoulders
Geelong and Collingwood are strong above the shoulders

But Pies were weak above the shoulders last year?

 

[I AM CARLTON]

But Pies were weak above the shoulders last year?

No I think he is suggesting Collingwood's ability to rebound back into the finals after a poor year shows they are determined. Where as other clubs take 8 to 10 years to get back to finals.

 

[Accidental genius]

So your nickname is wheelbarrow at work?

Only work when pushed? Lol

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Trading TDK is like the Russian's selling Alaska for a few million bucks-there is oil just under the surface

That's gold.

 

[JJBagger]

How does Geelong, Collingwood, not do any major rebuilds and keep making finals, grand finals, etc,
The AFL Draft is not working, you won't see geelong do a rebuild like the Blues, too long don't win many games etc.

Collingwood’s won 2 flags in the last 60 years

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I really don't want NT to get a team.

What a basket case that would be.

Can't get anyone to live on the GC, let alone the battlegrounds of western Sydney.

Tassie, while they deserve a team in theory will be a nightmare for players retention. No young kid with money will choose to live there. They will end up overpaying for a whole bunch of b graders after their rookie contracts are up. IMO, the only way tassie worked was clarkson going as coach or forcing north down there or both.

Gws is just a waste of space, time and money. the sun's will be too soon unless they have a huge couple of years.

A team in NT would be an absolute train wreck.

The Tassie franchise will complete the AFL competition, and be greatly supported. 80,000 members aren't a necessary measuring stick, as the state government will fork out generously to support it. (and so they should due to the huge tourism boost it will generate) Northern Territory on the other hand would be a nightmare that shouldn't even be considered.
The only Tassie question is the great divide between north and south. Is the team to be based in the more struggly north, that would really financially benefit. Or in the more vibrant Hobart, which would be much nicer to live in than any place in suburban Melbourne.

 

[Arr0w]

No I think he is suggesting Collingwood's ability to rebound back into the finals after a poor year shows they are determined. Where as other clubs take 8 to 10 years to get back to finals.

Pies had 2 poor years, yet still have a core of older players that have finals experience

MJ was clearly stating we are mentally weak, and or poor culture, that's how he defines whether a club makes finals or beyond

 

[Foucault1989]

TDK at present is a 'nearly' player as a ruckman. He could be special but he is inconsistent.

Is it worth playing him as a CHB? A bit like his brother, he could thrive there. His marking would be a feature and he could take the bigger forwards (which most clubs either have or want). It would hopefully mean he is led to the ball and can bring him into the game more and eliminate the inconsistency. Then we focus on getting another ruckman (or using Mirkov next year if he has a big off season).

Just a thought...

He's a 22 year old ruck with a lot of development left in him. Darcy is a man monster - of course he is showing more at a young age. Rucks usually don't come on until they are 25. TDK has exceeded expectations for a young skinny ruck - he competes in the air and on the ground. Pessimistic Carlton fans might not rate him, but internally I can guarantee he is thought of very highly.

 

[macky99]

At some stage we need to develop our own players. Apart from Mckay, Cripps, and Curnow, maybe Weitering and walsh but they were expected, our development needs to improve to take us to the next level

This is probably the key point in the TDK discussion he has shown very good growth in the last 12 mths and this will continue to in 2023.
TDK was fantastic against Darcy in the 2nd meeting, he has alot of upside in his
career and in our development.

The top 4 teams remaining have got to the pointy end without elite ruckman, so l don't see a ruckman eg Darcy as a priority in terms of what would be required to give up eg our 1st round pick.

 

[Arr0w]

This is probably the key point in the TDK discussion he has shown very good growth in the last 12 mths and this will continue to in 2023.
TDK was fantastic against Darcy in the 2nd meeting, he has alot of upside in his
career and in our development.

The top 4 teams remaining have got to the pointy end without elite ruckman, so l don't see a ruckman eg Darcy as a priority in terms of what would be required to give up eg our 1st round pick.

Apart from last year, no elite ruckman has won a flag in well over a decade and this year will be the same

Ruckmen have to be able to be a threat forward and capable around the ground

TDK is tracking well

 

[Accidental genius]

Tdk should be played down back as well to round off his value and development. Rotate through ruck forward defence and bench.

 

[Arr0w]

No idea why you would ever play TDK as a defender

Let him continue to learn his craft as a ruckman and forward

 

[rp84]

The Tassie franchise will complete the AFL competition, and be greatly supported. 80,000 members aren't a necessary measuring stick, as the state government will fork out generously to support it. (and so they should due to the huge tourism boost it will generate) Northern Territory on the other hand would be a nightmare that shouldn't even be considered.
The only Tassie question is the great divide between north and south. Is the team to be based in the more struggly north, that would really financially benefit. Or in the more vibrant Hobart, which would be much nicer to live in than any place in suburban Melbourne.

I love Hobart but it's a stretch to say its nicer than any suburban part of Melbourne, and certainly from a wealthy 20-30yo point of view it, wouldn't be high on the priority list.

The support isn't the issue I raised for tas. It's player retention. Clearly they should have been given a team before the abject failure of GWS and arguably the gold coast from a support point of view.

There was a chance to potentially solidify Tas with clarkson and/or the roos going there. I am worried it will really struggle from an admin and coaching point of view now.

I might be alone, but I don't expect Clarkson to be the panacea North expect him to be but time will tell.

 

[rp84]

Agree with most of what you say.

But in regards to GWS and Suns…
Suns are more of a basket case than GWS. Membership numbers over past few years consistently back that up. This year GWS 32k and suns only 21k.
North had about 35k only a few years back if I recall correctly.

GWS will build and grow especially if they have more on field success.

Suns need to get successful soon or they may only have a 5 year window in comp.

NT no chance in most of our lifetimes.

Tassie will probably work but I don’t see it ever getting out of bottom 3 membership wise although they would have a fiercely passionate member base.

Good numbers that I wasn't aware of.

Doesn't tell the full story, though.

Gws have been incredibly successful and only managed 11k more members. Would love to see crowd attendances.

Now that gc are becoming somewhat reputable, I personally think they will fly past gws.

As I say in another post, I dont have major concerns about tassie getting 40k members within a couple seasons. It's the player retention that will be a nightmare.

 

[smashbox gill]

No idea why you would ever play TDK as a defender

Let him continue to learn his craft as a ruckman and forward

People think just because his brother has excelled in defence that he will also

 

[Coona Blues]

Tdk should be played down back as well to round off his value and development. Rotate through ruck forward defence and bench.

I have long held the view TDK could be a quality defender and absolutely think he should do some sessions in defence during the pre season. If nothing else it mixes up the match ups during the sessions to add layers.

I still believe his future lies in the ruck. His development has been slow and, in my opinion, incomplete. He needs a dedicated tapping coach, a mentor who can vary his technique and the range of his hit outs. He is somewhat one dimensional and also needs a bit more aggression in his contests more often. He has the scope to be the closest thing to NicNat in the competition. His athleticism should make him a force at each and every ball up. His boundary work is still a work in process as he doesn’t have the core strength of many of his opponents. Do we build his strength at the possible detriment of his leap, or do we look at using him at bounces and ball ups, leaving Pitto to use his strengths at boundary contests?

We have players with varied strengths and could adopt a game plan maximising those aspects or develop Tom to be a more “rounded” ruckman. He could be valuable deployed tactically at either end of the ground if we choose.

 

[Blue__Balls]

People think just because his brother has excelled in defence that he will also

That's more than a little dismissive.

Think it might have more to do with the fact that a ruckman who can set up behind the ball when you have it inside your forward 50 makes it much more difficult for the opposition to rebound. We've seen it with Gawn and McEvoy in recent times, and it's a trend that we could certainly look to emulate. Especially given we have two elite key forwards.

With Harry and Charlie up forward, and plenty of calls for the addition of a quality third tall forward, giving TDK some experience slotting into the defensive setups makes plenty of sense. Doesn't mean converting him into a defender, just giving him some experience and exposure down back so that he's got the versatility to defend.

 

[Arr0w]

That's more than a little dismissive.

Think it might have more to do with the fact that a ruckman who can set up behind the ball when you have it inside your forward 50 makes it much more difficult for the opposition to rebound. We've seen it with Gawn and McEvoy in recent times, and it's a trend that we could certainly look to emulate. Especially given we have two elite key forwards.

With Harry and Charlie up forward, and plenty of calls for the addition of a quality third tall forward, giving TDK some experience slotting into the defensive setups makes plenty of sense. Doesn't mean converting him into a defender, just giving him some experience and exposure down back so that he's got the versatility to defend.

Most if not all ruckman play a kick behind play or fill space in defensive 50, which TDK does like other ruckmen

Guys Blicavs and Stanley types started as defenders and are extremely agile

I think TDK should focus on his ruck work, workrate to be in defensive zones to effect marking contests and his forward craft

 

[RAPPA]

He's a 22 year old ruck with a lot of development left in him. Darcy is a man monster - of course he is showing more at a young age. Rucks usually don't come on until they are 25. TDK has exceeded expectations for a young skinny ruck - he competes in the air and on the ground. Pessimistic Carlton fans might not rate him, but internally I can guarantee he is thought of very highly.

I’d agree that internally there are huge wraps on TDK and perhaps pre season injuries have stunted his development but the age gap between the two is only one year. At a pure ruck level, Darcy is an A-grader and has reached his level so it’s just a matter at being consistent at that level, whereas TDK is still very much a novice ruck and still not there (be speculative as to whether he gets there).

Sure, TDK is an exciting prospect and has a high ceiling, but geez how many players are deceived as that but get nowhere near that. I prefer proven commodities and would take Darcy over TDK based on where we are at and where we want to get to in the next couple of years.

 

[ferrisb]

I think he is suggesting Collingwood's ability to rebound back into the finals after a poor year shows they are determined. Where as other clubs take 8 to 10 years to get back to finals.

Everyone is treating Collingwood like this year was an incredible rebuild/rebound and is a modern-day baby bombers*. It wasn't.

They are one of the oldest, most experienced sides out there every week.

Last year was the aberration. This year is back to normal.

They have introduced a nice group of youngsters in the last couple of years. They have had a great year, with a fresh coach, a clear gameplan, player buy-in, and a never give up attitude; not trying to downplay any of that.

But they still have the core of a team that has made it to the 2nd week of the finals 3/4 years prior to 2022.

PS - my post not aimed specifically at you I AM CARLTON, just raising the point in general.

 

[Blue and Silver]

It is easier to bounce back up the ladder when you get a free hit an AA calibre draftee

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app