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Analysis Who is the AFL GOAT - AFL Era?

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SplintWhisky

SplintWhisky

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So it appears the Dusty thread about him potentially being GOAT has legs like you wouldn't believe.

However, one of the things I noticed is that every player that gets brought up in the GOAT conversation is always Ablett Jnr & Snr, Judd, Fyfe (who personally I have no idea how he is included but that could just be me being in Victoria), and Dusty. They are all midfielders, yeah mids get the medals and all that malarkey but I want to put forth other options. Screw mids
  • Scarlett - Arguably the greatest backman of the AFL era.
  • Rance - Is the other side of the greatest backman argument.
  • Franklin - Possibly the last ever player to reach 1000 goals in their career. Also the last player to kick 100 goals in a season. Should be well and truly in the conversation for GOAT. He has kicked all those goals in an era of the Paul Roos Flood and the Clarko Web defences.
  • Lockett - Greatest Goal Kicker
  • Dunstall - Second greatest goal kicker
  • Mcleod - Fantastic dashing Half Back Flanker and a 2 time Norm Smith medalist
These are the ones of the top of my head who should be added to the list. I would also say the criteria should be that they played at least 10 AFL Games over their career (a player could of played 150 VFL/WAFL/SANFL/QAFL games and then 20 AFL games when the league switched over and be in contention. Basically it is a requirement to try and keep it to proper AFL era)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MAX GAWN
 

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Only including players who played exclusively in the AFL era:

Ablett Jr.
Franklin

Nobody else even comes close to these two.
 
Wayne Carey is the GOAT.
 
I reckon Tom MacDonald has played at least 10 incredible games, not saying he's GOAT but if the requirement is ten games then he's in the conversation.
 
Brownlow BOGs of AFL-era players...

55 Gary Ablett jr
53 Patrick Dangerfield
46 Chris Judd
45 Sam Mitchell, Robert Harvey
41 Dustin Martin, Brent Harvey, Nat Fyfe
39 Lachie Neale
38 Scott Pendlebury, Simon Black
36 Joel Selwood, Marcus Bontempelli
35 Lance Franklin
34 Nathan Buckley, Greg Williams
33 Dane Swan
31 Scott West, Andrew McLeod, Travis Boak
30 Adam Goodes
29 Nick Riewoldt, John Platten, Peter Matera, Scott Thompson
28 Matthew Richardson, Josh Kennedy (Syd)
27 Wayne Carey, Jason Dunstall, Stewart Loewe, Shane Crawford, Ben Cousins, Luke Parker, Nick Dal Santo
26 Michael Voss, Luke Hodge, Mark Ricciuto, Craig Bradley
25 Tony Lockett, Lenny Hayes, Matt Priddis, Jimmy Bartel, Tom Mitchell
24 Trent Cotchin, Ollie Wines, Matthew Knights
23 Jonathan Brown, Chris Grant, Gavin Wanganeen, Daniel Kerr, Garry Hocking, Wayne Schwass
22 Gary Ablett sr, Matthew Pavlich, Josh Kennedy (WCE), Paul Salmon, Jim Stynes, Jason Akermanis, Jobe Watson, Matthew Boyd, Tony Liberatore
21 Patrick Cripps, Clayton Oliver, David Mundy, Rory Sloane
20 Paul Roos, Zach Merrett, Steve Johnson, Dan Hannebery, Paul Williams
19 James Hird, Marc Murphy, Steele Sidebottom, Callan Ward
18 Andrew Gaff, Robbie Gray, Darren Jarman, Nathan Burke, Luke Shuey, Paul Chapman
17 Brad Johnson, Chris Petracca, Nigel Lappin, Paul Kelly, Peter Bell, Tony McGuinness




Brownlow BOGs of non-midfielders from AFL-era

35 Lance Franklin
29 Nick Riewoldt
28 Matthew Richardson
27 Wayne Carey, Jason Dunstall, Stewart Loewe
25 Tony Lockett
23 Jonathan Brown, Chris Grant
22 Gary Ablett sr, Matthew Pavlich, Josh Kennedy (WCE), Paul Salmon, Jim Stynes
20 Paul Roos
19 James Hird
17 Brad Johnson
16 Max Gawn, Jeremy Cameron, Barry Hall, Warren Tredrea, Scott Wynd, Guy McKenna
15 Taylor Walker
14 Matthew Lloyd, Glen Jakovich, Shaun Rehn
13 Brodie Grundy
12 Dean Cox, Aaron Sandilands, Todd Goldstein, Luke Darcy, Jack Riewoldt, David Neitz, Drew Petrie, Stephen Silvagni
11 Stephen Kernahan, Fraser Gehrig, Dustin Fletcher, Scott Lucas, Jeff White, Toby Greene
10 Jarryd Roughead
_9 Tom Hawkins, Ben Graham, Jarrad Waite
_8 Peter Everitt, Brendon Lade



I've included BOG votes from the 1980's for Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett, Loewe, Diesel, Roos, Salmon and Stynes.
They played the majority of their careers in the 90's.

I didn't include the likes of Daicos, T Shaw, T Watson, Madden, Daniher, Ayres, etc who played the majority of their careers in the 1980's.
 
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Dusty is very good, just not as good as Ablett Jr. I'd have several players ahead of Martin. Buddy is probably #2 for me after Gazza.
 

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Everyone keeps saying GAJ but to me he is still a midfielder and they are a dime a dozen. Sure he did every skill fantastically when he was at the peak of his powers but I still feel he was in the more easier positions when compared to Forwards or Backs.

Still make the case that in the AFL era Buddy would be ahead because of the fact he was a forward in an era where team defence became the norm and he still managed to kick 1000 goals in his career.
 
SplintWhisky said:
For those who played in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL as the switch over occured.
Click to expand...
AFL GOAT…the thread title before your OP edit

If you are going to include the VFL era as well it would be Gaz Snr/Carey/Lethal

All interchangeable depending on opinion as it has been for the last 30 odd years
 
Last edited:
Strange Cat said:
AFL GOAT…the thread title

If you are going to include the VFL era as well it would be Gaz Snr/Carey/Lethal/Lockett interchangeable
Click to expand...
I know the thread title. I wrote the thread title. If you played at least 10 games in the Era of the AFL you qualify.

All players, apart from Lethal, will be eligible as they played at least 10 games in the AFL era (from season 1990 onwards).

So, for example, you wanted to say Gerard Healy was in contention for GOAT, then yes he would qualify because he played 11 games in the 1990 season when the competition rebranded to AFL. However, if you wanted to make the claim about Phil Krakouer then he would be ineligible because he only played 7 games when the comp changed to AFL.
 
Back One Out said:
Brownlow BOGs of AFL-era players...

55 Gary Ablett
53 Patrick Dangerfield
46 Chris Judd
45 Sam Mitchell
45 Robert Harvey
41 Dustin Martin, Brent Harvey, Nat Fyfe
39 Lachie Neale
38 Scott Pendlebury, Simon Black
36 Joel Selwood, Marcus Bontempelli
35 Lance Franklin
34 Nathan Buckley, Greg Williams
33 Dane Swan
31 Scott West, Andrew McLeod, Travis Boak
30 Adam Goodes
29 Nick Riewoldt, John Platten, Peter Matera, Scott Thompson
28 Matthew Richardson, Josh Kennedy (Syd)
27 Wayne Carey, Jason Dunstall, Stewart Loewe, Shane Crawford, Ben Cousins, Luke Parker, Nick Dal Santo
26 Michael Voss, Luke Hodge, Mark Ricciuto, Craig Bradley
25 Tony Lockett, Lenny Hayes, Matt Priddis, Jimmy Bartel, Tom Mitchell
24 Trent Cotchin, Ollie Wines, Matthew Knights
23 Jonathan Brown, Chris Grant, Gavin Wanganeen, Daniel Kerr, Garry Hocking, Wayne Schwass
22 Gary Ablett sr, Matthew Pavlich, Josh Kennedy (WCE), Paul Salmon, Jim Stynes, Jason Akermanis, Jobe Watson, Matthew Boyd, Tony Liberatore
21 Patrick Cripps, Clayton Oliver, David Mundy, Rory Sloane
20 Paul Roos, Zach Merrett, Steve Johnson, Dan Hannebery, Paul Williams
19 James Hird, Marc Murphy, Steele Sidebottom, Callan Ward
18 Andrew Gaff, Robbie Gray, Darren Jarman, Nathan Burke, Luke Shuey, Paul Chapman
17 Brad Johnson, Chris Petracca, Nigel Lappin, Paul Kelly, Peter Bell, Tony McGuinness




Brownlow BOGs of non-midfielders from AFL-era

35 Lance Franklin
29 Nick Riewoldt
28 Matthew Richardson
27 Wayne Carey, Jason Dunstall, Stewart Loewe
25 Tony Lockett
23 Jonathan Brown, Chris Grant
22 Gary Ablett, Matthew Pavlich, Josh Kennedy (WCE), Paul Salmon, Jim Stynes
20 Paul Roos
19 James Hird
17 Brad Johnson
16 Max Gawn, Jeremy Cameron, Barry Hall, Warren Tredrea, Scott Wynd, Guy McKenna
15 Taylor Walker
14 Matthew Lloyd, Glen Jakovich, Shaun Rehn
13 Brodie Grundy
12 Dean Cox, Aaron Sandilands, Todd Goldstein, Luke Darcy, Jack Riewoldt, David Neitz, Drew Petrie, Stephen Silvagni
11 Stephen Kernahan, Fraser Gehrig, Dustin Fletcher, Scott Lucas, Jeff White, Toby Greene
10 Jarryd Roughead
_9 Tom Hawkins, Ben Graham, Jarrad Waite
_8 Peter Everitt, Brendon Lade



I've included BOG votes from the 1980's for Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett, Loewe, Roos, Salmon and Stynes. They played the majority of their careers in the 90's.
I didn't include the likes of Daicos, T Shaw, T Watson, Madden, Daniher, Ayres, etc who played the majority of their careers in the 1980's.
Click to expand...
Yes I think gaz jnr a clear number 1 and Fyfe deserves an honourable mention but never in contention because if not for injury( a lot were impact injuries for his attack on the ball) he would definetly be in the ring.

People at the top have played a lot of footy.
Votes per a game ave for career
Gazjr- .77
Fyfe- .92
 

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SplintWhisky said:
I know the thread title. I wrote the thread title. If you played at least 10 games in the Era of the AFL you qualify.

All players, apart from Lethal, will be eligible as they played at least 10 games in the AFL era (from season 1990 onwards).

So, for example, you wanted to say Gerard Healy was in contention for GOAT, then yes he would qualify because he played 11 games in the 1990 season when the competition rebranded to AFL. However, if you wanted to make the claim about Phil Krakouer then he would be ineligible because he only played 7 games when the comp changed to AFL.
Click to expand...
The original opening post didn’t state the inclusion of the WAVFL/SANFL/VFL et al

The post edit doesn’t change that , the original post had a silly criteria of the requirement of more than 10 games
 
It’s too hard to say these days as people can’t seem to put their finger on what is actually the most important thing and players these days have such strictly defined roles.

Coaches all talk about defence - it’s almost all they talk about - as the key to winning.

Ablett never defended for one second in his life. His role was too strict - he was to attack, that’s it.

Why do you attack? To kick goals to win.

Franklin and Lloyd are a long way ahead in that regard.

You’d barely see either ever get a best of ground because they don’t get 40 disposals like Ablett. Their job was to get the ball and kick goals.

Nor did either ever defend at all.

So is it two way players? Ablett wasn’t two way, neither is Dangerfield or Martin. They never defended. The best attackers don’t.

Some of the best defenders also provide attack. But then the coaches generally find their attacking drive so valuable that they strip them of basically all defensive responsibilities.

It’s become a lot more like NFL. They all have such tight and narrow roles.

So who’s the most valuable? I guess, really, you could say it is whoever you would take first in an even draft.

Many would say Ablett but maybe his years at the GC show something… he just racked up endless disposals in teams that could never even make the finals. What did all his brilliance achieve? Basically nothing.

I’d probably take Franklin. I suspect many would because the gun key forward is the rarest. Maybe that’s the measure.
 
Ive acknowledged that Fyfe can’t joust with gaz for careers but for those that can’t recall 13,14,15 Fyfe here’s a snippet from a pies supporter on bigfooty 2009 draft thread written in mid 2015 doing a redraft:


Pick 1 (Melbourne) – Nathan Fyfe
Nat Fyfe is 90 kilograms and 190 centimetres of elite AFL material. He was astoundingly selected at pick 20 (let that sink in for a few seconds) by the Dockers in 2009. Fyfe has probably overtaken Gary Ablett as the best player in the competition. He is already a superstar at just 23. He is almost unmatchable and unbeatable on the field.

Fyfe can destroy you in the midfield with his ball winning, ball efficiency and tackling. He can push forward and take a highlight grab and kick a few goals. Or, if that wasn’t good enough, he can be put down back to steady the tide. In just five seasons, he’s won two best and fairest awards at Fremantle, an All-Australian slot in 2014, as well as the ALFPA’s MVP, and came second in the Brownlow last year.

Did I mention he hasn’t even played 100 games yet? He’s averaging ridiculously scary numbers over his career – 25 disposals, five marks, four tackles and almost a goal a game.



By the end of 2015 he finished with his first Brownlow and second AA, MVP becoming one of 5 to do so
 
SplintWhisky said:
So it appears the Dusty thread about him potentially being GOAT has legs like you wouldn't believe and it appears to be a dick measuring between Richmond and Geelong Supporters arguing between Jnr and Dusty.

However, one of the things I noticed is that every player that gets brought up in the GOAT conversation is always Ablett Jnr & Snr, Judd, Fyfe (who personally I have no idea how he is included but that could just be me being in Victoria), and Dusty. They are all midfielders, yeah mids get the medals and all that malarkey but I want to put forth other options. Screw mids
  • Scarlett - Arguably the greatest backman of the AFL era.
  • Rance - Is the other side of the greatest backman argument.
  • Franklin - Possibly the last ever player to reach 1000 goals in their career. Also the last player to kick 100 goals in a season. Should be well and truly in the conversation for GOAT. He has kicked all those goals in an era of the Paul Roos Flood and the Clarko Web defences.
  • Lockett - Greatest Goal Kicker
  • Dunstall - Second greatest goal kicker
  • Mcleod - Fantastic dashing Half Back Flanker and a 2 time Norm Smith medalist
These are the ones of the top of my head who should be added to the list. I would also say the criteria should be that they played at least 10 AFL Games over their career (a player could of played 150 VFL/WAFL/SANFL/QAFL games and then 20 AFL games when the league switched over and be in contention. Basically it is a requirement to try and keep it to proper AFL era)
Click to expand...
You forgot Dean Cox redefining ruck work.

If we're talking exclusively AFL era, it's Gaz Jr, Judd and Franklin, if it's anyone that played in the AFL era, it's Carey or Gary Ablett Sr, which does show the AFL wasn't always mid-centric.
 

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