Toast McRae era (2022-) = see OP

[Mollythedolly]

I've said this before, I'll say it again and I'll repeat it even more after McRae has won us a flag

Losing that 2018 Grand Final will be looked back upon as the biggest blessing in disguise this club has ever experienced

Can't ever see losing a GF as a blessing. They're so hard to get to. I'd suggest the 2020 SF more significant anyway. Triggered the rebuild / list cleanse that brought this list together.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Can't ever see losing a GF as a blessing. They're so hard to get to. I'd suggest the 2020 SF more significant anyway. Triggered the rebuild / list cleanse that brought this list together.

I’d say the salary cap debacle was the trigger.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Can't ever see losing a GF as a blessing. They're so hard to get to. I'd suggest the 2020 SF more significant anyway. Triggered the rebuild / list cleanse that brought this list together.

I never said losing the flag triggered the change

I said losing that flag will end up being a blessing in disguise because if we had won that flag, we'd still have Buckley as coach and be wallowing in the bottom 4

 

[Mollythedolly]

I never said losing the flag triggered the change

I said losing that flag will end up being a blessing in disguise because if we had won that flag, we'd still have Buckley as coach and be wallowing in the bottom 4

I know, I did.

Not sure you can assume our position when the rebuild was initiated under Bucks and he’d shown he was capable of getting the team to a GF with a half decent run on the injury front.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I’d say the salary cap debacle was the trigger.

We’d have worked through the cap issues if we hadn’t been flogged in that SF. Comments from the club post that game essentially confirm the flogging was the trigger. Sides that make a SF rarely dismantle the list as vigorously as we did.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I know, I did.

Not sure you can assume our position when the rebuild was initiated under Bucks and he’d shown he was capable of getting the team to a GF with a half decent run on the injury front.

That's assuming you believe Buckley was the one who got us there:

End of 2011, Buckley takes over a Premiership Winning and then Grand Final losing side

2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 12th
2016 12th
2017 13th

End of 2017, Longmuir and Hocking arrive

2018 3rd (then Grand Final)
2019 4th (Prelim)

Longmuir leaves (I think Hocking too?)

2020 8th
2021 17th

Now, if you truly think Bucks got us to that Grand Final...great. I couldn't disagree more

This is why I will FOREVER say that losing that Grand Final was a blessing in disguise

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That's assuming you believe Buckley was the one who got us there:

End of 2011, Buckley takes over a Premiership Winning and then Grand Final losing side

2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 12th
2016 12th
2017 13th

End of 2017, Longmuir and Hocking arrive

2018 3rd (then Grand Final)
2019 4th (Prelim)

Longmuir leaves (I think Hocking too?)

2020 8th
2021 17th

Now, if you truly think Bucks got us to that Grand Final...great. I couldn't disagree more

This is why I will FOREVER say that losing that Grand Final was a blessing in disguise

I never said losing the flag triggered the change

I said losing that flag will end up being a blessing in disguise because if we had won that flag, we'd still have Buckley as coach and be wallowing in the bottom 4

How’s longmuir going?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We’d have worked through the cap issues if we hadn’t been flogged in that SF. Comments from the club post that game essentially confirm the flogging was the trigger. Sides that make a SF rarely dismantle the list as vigorously as we did.

Nah I think the cap issues were much worse than the club realised and it was panic stations at the last minute when the penny finally dropped. I also hold a conspiracy theory that the AFL secretly whacked Collingwood with extra cap overlay for secret payments to beams.. or to the bikies he owed money to…..

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

How’s longmuir going?

He's doing ok thus far.

I'd argue he doesn't have the list we had in 2018 though.

I mean, we were the best defensive side of those 2 seasons, which is what we built the Premiership tilt on. Longmuir then went to Freo and they took the mantle of best defensive side.

You can all continue to live in the world where Buckley was responsible for getting us there if you choose. That's fine. I'll happily live in the one where evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He's doing ok thus far.

I'd argue he doesn't have the list we had in 2018 though.

I mean, we were the best defensive side of those 2 seasons, which is what we built the Premiership tilt on. Longmuir then went to Freo and they took the mantle of best defensive side.

You can all continue to live in the world where Buckley was responsible for getting us there if you choose. That's fine. I'll happily live in the one where evidence suggests otherwise.

Half the side walked out on Longmuir, little wonder his list is poor. Luckily we didn’t replace buckley with him.

Bucks inherited a good team at the top, and were a top team from 2007-2013 inclusive. Then it was time for a rebuild because 5-6 years is a long time in football and he inherited zero next generation players from Malthouse. Nearly won a flag, then his time and his defensive game plan were over.

 

[Bianconeri]

Half the side walked out on Longmuir, little wonder his list is poor. Luckily we didn’t replace buckley with him.

Bucks inherited a good team at the top, and were a top team from 2007-2013 inclusive. Then it was time for a rebuild because 5-6 years is a long time in football and he inherited zero next generation players from Malthouse. Nearly won a flag, then his time and his defensive game plan were over.

Not all good assistant coaches can make it as a coach, Longmuir failing at Fremantle doesn’t retroactively make Bucks time better.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Nah I think the cap issues were much worse than the club realised and it was panic stations at the last minute when the penny finally dropped. I also hold a conspiracy theory that the AFL secretly whacked Collingwood with extra cap overlay for secret payments to beams.. or to the bikies he owed money to…..

They announced after the final that there'd be significant list changes. They'd tried to trade Treloar the previous year so I'm sure they were aware of the SC issues before the final. I'm happy for you to think otherwise.

I'm also not buying into your conspiracy theories around Beams. We paid him out as we were required to do. It's the obvious reason all 10 players we added to the list in 2020 were 1st year players rather than pursuing anyone significant during the trade period, and only Kreuger and Lipinski among the 8 players added in 2021.

 

[DWil6]

That's assuming you believe Buckley was the one who got us there:

End of 2011, Buckley takes over a Premiership Winning and then Grand Final losing side

2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 12th
2016 12th
2017 13th

End of 2017, Longmuir and Hocking arrive

2018 3rd (then Grand Final)
2019 4th (Prelim)

Longmuir leaves (I think Hocking too?)

2020 8th
2021 17th

Now, if you truly think Bucks got us to that Grand Final...great. I couldn't disagree more

This is why I will FOREVER say that losing that Grand Final was a blessing in disguise

There has been no upside to losing that grand final. No blessing is disguise. We might win a flag under McRae and I really like him as a coach, but we are more likely not to unless he’s here for a long time.

Winning 2018 would have been amazing, plain and simple.

 

[Mollythedolly]

That's assuming you believe Buckley was the one who got us there:

End of 2011, Buckley takes over a Premiership Winning and then Grand Final losing side

2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 12th
2016 12th
2017 13th

End of 2017, Longmuir and Hocking arrive

2018 3rd (then Grand Final)
2019 4th (Prelim)

Longmuir leaves (I think Hocking too?)

2020 8th
2021 17th

Now, if you truly think Bucks got us to that Grand Final...great. I couldn't disagree more

This is why I will FOREVER say that losing that Grand Final was a blessing in disguise

Love that Bucks gets the blame when we struggle but can't get the credit when we do well. Regardless of who the assistants were right through his tenure, the buck stops with him. Those guys didn't do anything without his approval and/or say so. Happy for you to think otherwise. I'll leave it there as this isn't the thread for it.

 

[domus]

So far McCrae's era has been the most joyful I have experienced. Yes-including 2010!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

There has been no upside to losing that grand final. No blessing is disguise. We might win a flag under McRae and I really like him as a coach, but we are more likely not to unless he’s here for a long time.

Winning 2018 would have been amazing, plain and simple.

At the time I’m sure it would have been.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not all good assistant coaches can make it as a coach, Longmuir failing at Fremantle doesn’t retroactively make Bucks time better.

True but many people were bemoaning that we’d lost longmuir and that he should instead be our senior coach. In that scenario we wouldn’t have mcraeveither. I’m not retrospectively reviewing bucks time…. I’m stating facts. Crediting longmuir is where the retrospectivity comes in. It’s outside judgement,…. Guesswork. There’s no retrospective love for Harvey and the other assistant coaches…people are guessing who contributed to what. It like always was a team effort from the president down to the doorman.

The club was within a kick of a premiership in the Buckley regime. That’s a basic fact. To say losing that is a blessing in disguise is absolute rubbish.

 

[Bianconeri]

True but many people were bemoaning that we’d lost longmuir and that he should instead be our senior coach. In that scenario we wouldn’t have mcraeveither. I’m not retrospectively reviewing bucks time…. I’m stating facts. Crediting longmuir is where the retrospectivity comes in. It’s outside judgement,…. Guesswork. There’s no retrospective love for Harvey and the other assistant coaches…people are guessing who contributed to what. It like always was a team effort from the president down to the doorman.

The club was within a kick of a premiership in the Buckley regime. That’s a basic fact. To say losing that is a blessing in disguise is absolute rubbish.

If you want to reduce all the analysis I down to guess work you may as well not have an opinion.

 

[sr36]

That's assuming you believe Buckley was the one who got us there:

End of 2011, Buckley takes over a Premiership Winning and then Grand Final losing side

2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 12th
2016 12th
2017 13th

End of 2017, Longmuir and Hocking arrive

2018 3rd (then Grand Final)
2019 4th (Prelim)

Longmuir leaves (I think Hocking too?)

2020 8th
2021 17th

Now, if you truly think Bucks got us to that Grand Final...great. I couldn't disagree more

This is why I will FOREVER say that losing that Grand Final was a blessing in disguise

Just to add - 2018 came straight after a review where Bucks was told he had to back off and stop micromanaging. My theory is it could have worked longer term with Bucks except covid cuts and the bubble meant that Bucks was back to being fully hands on and micromanaging. Just doesn't have the EQ to manage players.

 

[NMBB]

Just to add - 2018 came straight after a review where Bucks was told he had to back off and stop micromanaging. My theory is it could have worked longer term with Bucks except covid cuts and the bubble meant that Bucks was back to being fully hands on and micromanaging. Just doesn't have the EQ to manage players.

Also seems that the game plan was fuzzy to say the least and the means of communicating the fuzzy game plan was even fuzzier = a confused group of players

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If you want to reduce all the analysis I down to guess work you may as well not have an opinion.

Im guessing 99% percent of supporters wouldn’t call losing in 2018 a blessing in disguise!

 

[Bianconeri]

Im guessing 99% percent of supporters wouldn’t call losing in 2018 a blessing in disguise!

Yeah that’s a pretty ridiculous opinion,
Would at least wait for McRae to win a three peat before rolling that one out.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yeah that’s a pretty ridiculous opinion,
Would at least wait for McRae to win a three peat before rolling that one out.

That’s the guy I’m arguing with so not sure why you’re chipping in. Conversation about longmuir was entirely in context of his ridiculous assertion.

 

[MooreTreloar]

PonsfordMagpie will you be doing a seperate games and goals tally for 2023? Thanks.

 

[Masked Magician]

PonsfordMagpie will you be doing a seperate games and goals tally for 2023? Thanks.

I would say no, maybe a rolling top 5 one