Review Round 8, 2023 - Carlton vs. Brisbane Lions

[M Malice]

To be fair they all get paid well enough for it to be full time I just wonder whether they aren’t doing enough theory. I know all AFL umpires get every single part of their game dissected from positioning to communication to decision making. I know from one umpire that they usually also re watch the games of the two teams they umpire next during the week and takes notes. My memory is a tad shoddy though on it but I remember thinking it was a lot of extra work to do one top of your normal job already.

I think full time for AFL umpires I think can only make things better. However, if they want to fix the low participation issues, they should look at paying the lower level games (especially community and junior levels) more. The crack down on abuse alongside this will make for a much more appealing choice for people and especially parents for their kids.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Different sport but my 12 year old granddaughter gets really good money to help coach and then referee 4-5 year old kids on a Saturday morning... $25 for 45 minutes of coaching and then $15 for each game(10 minutes each way) she referees, cash in hand.

Caveat is that soccer clubs charge a fair bit for additional specialised coaching sessions on top of the usual training during the week.

 

[twhowler]

Watch Kayo mini. The NUMBER ONE with a bullet - Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

31

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

's pressure. He improved last year. This year he has gone to another level. He used to put in one big effort then appeal for a free or just start jogging. On Friday it was 2-3 big efforts. So many goals from them - either to him or to others. He is in phenomenal form in terms of goal-kicking but also his team approach. Our best player right now in my opinion.

 

[Sanchez365]

It was very noticable watching on TV that for the entire game Carlton had absolutely no time and space. It was the best I have seen us play.

 

[Dalions]

It was very noticable watching on TV that for the entire game Carlton had absolutely no time and space. It was the best I have seen us play.

The 2nd and 3rd quarters were the best defensive football we have played without a doubt.
The fact that we are playing with the intensity we are at this time of year will hold us in good stead for September.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Intrigued by 2 & 3.

1 makes me wonder if it fundamentally disincentivises the act of winning the ball, encouraging players to let their opponent grab it then immediately tackle.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention, 1 MUST come with a rider that completely eliminates pre-tackling. That is, any player who puts his hands arms on or around an opponent who is between him and the ball, or closer to the ball, before he takes possession, instant free kick against. This happens all the time right now and is an absolute blight of the game.

For the avoidance of doubt and ambiguity, "taking possession" can be simply defined as the action(s) of a player who, were they receiving a kick which had travelled 15m, would be paid a mark (ie you legitimately are holding the ball in your hands/arms). This means you cannot tackle an opponent simply because he's touched the ball.

The only concern with this is that the player first to the ball may start playing for free kicks by backing into his opponent, and initiating contact that way. I'd rather this be paid than the situation we have right now. Onus in that instance should still be on the player who is second to the ball to keep his hands off his opponent, or try to get around him to the ball.

 

[Dalions]

One of the plays of the game for mine.
Not sure if Daniher did it justice by kicking the goal though.

 

[Tom14]

Coaches votes:

Carlton
vs
Brisbane Lions
VOTES
PLAYER (CLUB)
10
Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

29

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

(BL)
8
Jack Payne (BL)
4
Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

31

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

(BL)
3
Adam Cerra (CARL)
3
Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

29

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

(BL)
1
Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

(BL)
1
Hugh McCluggage

6

Hugh Mccluggage

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.3

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

D

19.0

4star

K

12.0

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.0

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

(BL)


Seems pretty clear to me that the Carlton coaching box gave Cerra 3 votes?

 

[buttermuffs]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention, 1 MUST come with a rider that completely eliminates pre-tackling. That is, any player who puts his hands arms on or around an opponent who is between him and the ball, or closer to the ball, before he takes possession, instant free kick against. This happens all the time right now and is an absolute blight of the game.

For the avoidance of doubt and ambiguity, "taking possession" can be simply defined as the action(s) of a player who, were they receiving a kick which had travelled 15m, would be paid a mark (ie you legitimately are holding the ball in your hands/arms). This means you cannot tackle an opponent simply because he's touched the ball.

The only concern with this is that the player first to the ball may start playing for free kicks by backing into his opponent, and initiating contact that way. I'd rather this be paid than the situation we have right now. Onus in that instance should still be on the player who is second to the ball to keep his hands off his opponent, or try to get around him to the ball.

Although that eliminates the need for prior opportunity doesn’t it just create a whole new interpretational mess with what constitutes as pre tackling and to who?

At what point does a touch to an opposition player become too much?

Two players could be running for the same ball, and the player closer could technically pre tackle the entire way while the other player is helpless? I understand this is a tad silly but these are the types of situations that need to be considered for the interpretation of this new rule.

Consider players A, B are on team 1 with player C on the opposition. Player A is closest to the ball, then C, then B. Is player B allowed to attempt to use their hands and arms to shepherd player C even if their further away and player A looks to take possession? It’s still a massive grey area where the umpire is required to interpret the situation.

In the end I feel like you end up back where you started but with increased incentive for players to still try and tackle first and take possession last or better yet not take possession at all and simply shepherd and hit the ball along to gain territory.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Nathan Barley]

Coaches votes:

Carlton
vs
Brisbane Lions
VOTES
PLAYER (CLUB)
10
Josh Dunkley (BL)
8
Jack Payne (BL)
4
Charlie Cameron (BL)
3
Adam Cerra (CARL)
3
Harris Andrews (BL)
1
Zac Bailey (BL)
1
Hugh McCluggage (BL)


Seems pretty clear to me that the Carlton coaching box gave Cerra 3 votes?

Charlie now leading our coach's votes

 

[BuntonRules]

People talk about breakout games for young players. Friday was Jack's.

 

[buttermuffs]

People talk about breakout games for young players. Friday was Jack's.

Honestly think the Giants game was the first breakout. Got coaches votes and was prominent the entire day. Was the game where it was solidified by basically all here that he had what it takes to be a star player. Though the Carlton was on the national stage which mad everyone notice.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[LongLion]

Honestly think the Giants game was the first breakout. Got coaches votes and was prominent the entire day. Was the game where it was solidified by basically all here that he had what it takes to be a star player. Though the Carlton was on the national stage which mad everyone notice.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Was thinking something similar

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

People talk about breakout games for young players. Friday was Jack's.

He's not young.

 

[Grasshopper17]

One of the plays of the game for mine.
Not sure if Daniher did it justice by kicking the goal though.

He missed.

I'd like to see on social media some snippets of our set shot training. I very much doubt we are "practicing perfect". I doubt we have players on the mark putting the kicker off, I doubt there is a great deal of rigour in players kicking from a large range of spots (both distance and angle), and I doubt there is a great deal of rigour in determining "which kick is best from this spot for me?".

I could be wrong but given what we see quite regularly on game day I'd be surprised.

 

[Gadzorks]

People talk about breakout games for young players. Friday was Jack's.

I think it was a breakout game for the team. They finally get how to do team pressure.

We are about to start flying.

 

[Elixuh]

Coaches votes:

Carlton
vs
Brisbane Lions
VOTES
PLAYER (CLUB)
10
Josh Dunkley (BL)
8
Jack Payne (BL)
4
Charlie Cameron (BL)
3
Adam Cerra (CARL)
3
Harris Andrews (BL)
1
Zac Bailey (BL)
1
Hugh McCluggage (BL)


Seems pretty clear to me that the Carlton coaching box gave Cerra 3 votes?

Cerra was pretty good. Even with his homeschool bowl cut and lifeless eyes.

 

[dlanod]

I think it was a breakout game for the team. They finally get how to do team pressure.

We are about to start flying.

The Brisbane Griffons

 

[bungalow_bill]

It's still in this thread... most can see it's a joke nothing more.

In that same thread that it was deleted from a moderator posted an image of Joffa to bait a Magpies supporter, that is still there. LOL!

Personally thought it was very funny. Great pic of Jack too looking super ripped. Guy is a mountain of muscle

 

[scoman]

Watch Kayo mini. The NUMBER ONE with a bullet - Charlie Cameron's pressure. He improved last year. This year he has gone to another level. He used to put in one big effort then appeal for a free or just start jogging. On Friday it was 2-3 big efforts. So many goals from them - either to him or to others. He is in phenomenal form in terms of goal-kicking but also his team approach. Our best player right now in my opinion.

Absolutely, Charlie has always been decent at applying pressure, but in past years it has been hit and miss. It has seemed like he would apply the manic pressure if he sensed we needed a lift, or he sniffed an opportunity of a HTB free. This year he just keeps going and in the aftergame interview on Kayo/ Fox he mentioned just how many more opportunities this has been giving him. Its similar across our forward line, they seem to be reaping the rewards of defensive pressure, namely a few extra goals a game, and easy goals at that, out the back or marking unopposed. It's a different way of playing, but the rewards are there.

 

[FeastOrFamine]

Absolutely, Charlie has always been decent at applying pressure, but in past years it has been hit and miss. It has seemed like he would apply the manic pressure if he sensed we needed a lift, or he sniffed an opportunity of a HTB free. This year he just keeps going and in the aftergame interview on Kayo/ Fox he mentioned just how many more opportunities this has been giving him. Its similar across our forward line, they seem to be reaping the rewards of defensive pressure, namely a few extra goals a game, and easy goals at that, out the back or marking unopposed. It's a different way of playing, but the rewards are there.

It feels much more sustainable as well compared to our previous style of play. I feel confident in our system being able to stand up to the best teams now that we're able to set up better defensively. It feels like all the pieces are starting to fall in place game-plan wise for us. Now it's down to tidying up smaller issues that can be resolved in the short to medium term.

 

[Thomasno]

He's not young.

He’s 23, he’s young. Most KP/Rucks don’t start coming on till that age or even later.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Very good win. Pressure is becoming consistent, and the midfield is humming nicely.

The sooner we get back to the three talls down back the better. Andrews, Payne and Joyce look much more comfortable than 2 plus Lester or anyone. Sharp went OK, looks a bit bigger, should be a good one when he fills out. Wanted the ball a bit more.

Shouldn't lose a game till after the bye on this form. Happy to keep rolling on.

Horse for courses but generally speaking Joyce is preferable to Lester.

 

[Doc Hattori]

To be fair they all get paid well enough for it to be full time I just wonder whether they aren’t doing enough theory. I know all AFL umpires get every single part of their game dissected from positioning to communication to decision making. I know from one umpire that they usually also re watch the games of the two teams they umpire next during the week and takes notes. My memory is a tad shoddy though on it but I remember thinking it was a lot of extra work to do one top of your normal job already.

I think full time for AFL umpires I think can only make things better. However, if they want to fix the low participation issues, they should look at paying the lower level games (especially community and junior levels) more. The crack down on abuse alongside this will make for a much more appealing choice for people and especially parents for their kids.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Check out the jobs & ages of the umpires. You have accountants, IT & management consultants, engineers, executives in large companies, lawyers (one was actually a barrister), school teachers/ leaders, businessmen etc. Like they are going to give that career prospect up to go full time. Like they are nuff nuffs who cant read a rule book, absorb intensive coaching or make split second logical decisions.

The effort, hours & professionalism they put in, is full time anyway when you consider game review, coaching, active recovery, AFL training, gym, physio or pilates, additional running, travel, match prep etc. The (Melb based) umpires doing the Gabba match this week are leaving on Friday night & getting home after mid day Sunday, wasting a total weekend of free/ family time. There's more than your fill time hours already.

Yes there is a big gap between state league, development leagues & AFL $. If it was up to me I would try & structure it so that young umpires would more see it an opportunity to at least get on the development path, make some good part time money & then give it everything. I think this is starting to happen thanks to AFLW requiring more umpires at a (supposed) higher level & their development path is now much more defined.

Anyway, talk of "full time" making the current AFL umpires better is basically shite. So is any mention of "inconsistency" without quoting specific examples that are roundly accepted by experts. Otherwise it's just an unsubstantiated opinion. So is the notion of "lack of feel for the game". How would an umpire that has done 50 AFL games plus many hundreds of lower level games, plus intensive AFL coaching for some years, have any less feel than a media nuff or a player who has been retired for 20 years (or a BF keyboard warrior). Feel isn't relevant in Rules anyway. Likewise talk of state or team bias is garbage. The whole perception of umpires integrity has been tarnished by the Pell thing (have not heard anything since before Xmas - doubt if the cops can find a charge that will stick), the level of betting available on AFL where many supporters see decisions through the lense of their multis. At the moment their assessment is through the AFL powers that be, not Bigfooty nuffs or even coaches or media hacks looking for a bite.

 

[buttermuffs]

Horse for courses but generally speaking Joyce is preferable to Lester.

Is he though? Lester has been quite a bit better than him this season. No unforced errors is the biggest difference and they basically are the same defensively but Lester has also been better one on one as well. I also feel like the statements about Lester not having speed were greatly exaggerated.

I get Joyce’s age and height are more preferable but he’s pretty much beaten by Lester in every major skill that matters. So it feels like a ‘Joyce is preferable if only he was actually better’ type statement.

I think Joyce deserves another year anyway. I think more time in our system will help iron out some of the unforced errors he made and there’s definitely promise.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Brizzys Squizzy]

He's not young.

He's 23 , really stupid comment.