Hot Topic Michael Voss - Coaching in 2026. Should he remain beyond that?

[Azzurro]

Or conversely his gameplan was figured out after half a season and we've played like rubbish since.

After the bye last year we've gone 4-7 last season and 4-7-1 this season. That's more than just a bad start to the year, it's an extended run of really poor form that has stretched across 2 seasons. There's currently no end in sight to this run either.

I'm surprised you find it refreshing that a coach admits we've got problems "many, many times" and yet hasn't been able to figure a way to alter it. Just admitting there's a problem isn't really good enough. We can all tell there's a problem.

I'm not against the club sorting it out internally, however, have you got any confidence in them being able to do that? I certainly don't. Nothing I've seen from a board/football department has shown that they're capable of figuring this out.

If they can't sort out the admitted performance problem over the next 6-12 months, then of course things have to change.

Admitting is the first step. He's been doing that over the last 2 weeks that I can tell. That's not a lot of time in any industry, but people feel like it's an eternity in football which is rubbish.

They need to ignore the masses and sort it out internally under Cook's guidance. If they get it wrong again, so be it - but at least we look like a remotely professional organisation rather than a running joke sacking another coach mid season again.

 

[Accidental genius]

I am not the one being emotional about this from a decision making perspective. I am certainly getting emotive in my responses to all and sundry "supporters" on this board

Every major (note major) error we've made as a club has been when we've knee jerked on key decisions based on no discernible, logical process. Ratten mid season 2012, Malthouse direct appointment, Bolton for a caretaking Barker, Teague because he was there. While a process is not guaranteed to yield the right result (see Bolton) it exponentially increases your chance of a positive outcome. Instead here we are a decade later, repeating the same mistakes based on gut feel and emotion.

If Voss is not the right guy (I have my doubts too!), a post season review will sort it out. And surely with Cook at the helm, there will be a post season review.

Agree but if we leave it to end of year and decide a new coach is the way to go that will likely reduce number of potential candidates.

We should do more thorough review at end of year but for now remove voss and let one of the other assistants take over as interim coach. Work hard to find the best available coach.

I’d be targeting someone like don pyke. And Let pyke bring his assistants of choice.

List also needs a bit of a shake up.

Next year I’d be very surprised if we didn’t make finals.

 

[Jatz]

If they can't sort out the admitted performance problem over the next 6-12 months, then of course things have to change.

Admitting is the first step. He's been doing that over the last 2 weeks that I can tell. That's not a lot of time in any industry, but people feel like it's an eternity in football which is rubbish.

They need to ignore the masses and sort it out internally under Cook's guidance. If they get it wrong again, so be it - but at least we look like a remotely professional organisation rather than a running joke sacking another coach mid season again.

Oh I'm with you on that. He shouldn't go until at least the end of this season. I personally think he's coaching for his job through the rest of this season. Not to play finals but we need to see improvement. If we're still playing this turgid game style, unable to score at the end of this season then I think it's time to go.

I love the notion of sticking fat with a coach but I have this dreaded feeling we'll do it for the first time with the wrong coach.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

A year ago is a long time in sport.

No Club should accept mediocrity - and that's what we've seen for 2 months now.... abject mediocrity!!

With no real improvement in that time frankly.

Can Voss fix it? I doubt it.

Is it all on him? Of course not, far from it, but he's the guy - as senior coach - that's in the crosshairs.

That's why he gets the big bikkies.

Sure, maybe there is a rogue element amongst the players - again, his job (with others) to sort it out....if rumours are true, it's been festering for a long time now?

Comparing to other coaches and their tenure as senior coaches is a furphy.

Comparing to other senior coaches/managers in global sport is more relevant.

He has little time to turn it around imo.

That's showbiz.

 

[Bluebager]

I am not the one being emotional about this from a decision making perspective. I am certainly getting emotive in my responses to all and sundry "supporters" on this board

Every major (note major) error we've made as a club has been when we've knee jerked on key decisions based on no discernible, logical process. Ratten mid season 2012, Malthouse direct appointment, Bolton for a caretaking Barker, Teague because he was there. While a process is not guaranteed to yield the right result (see Bolton) it exponentially increases your chance of a positive outcome. Instead here we are a decade later, repeating the same mistakes based on gut feel and emotion.

If Voss is not the right guy (I have my doubts too!), a post season review will sort it out. And surely with Cook at the helm, there will be a post season review.

hopefully the italians will do the same with Mancini .. Azzurro

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

More than half the team has played under three coaches.

No other Club has ever subjected themselves to this nonsense this century - except Norf and they only reached Carlton levels of crapola because Clarkson is taking a personal for health reasons break. Just think about that and what that might mean in terms of - everything.

We are talking young adults out of high school into a cossetted high expectation high reward or fail industry and all around these kids all they have experienced is total dysfunctional management mayhem. I'm not surprised one iota that there might be differences of opinion amongst players about - everything.

Into this toxic mix of mayhem comes any coach who might be used to a much more stable Club environment and be confronted with a bunch of player 'stuff' from players who has never had a hand in choosing or developing - but who is told are definately finals if not top4 capable and if he doesnt achieve this he has failed...

too funny.

Your logic is unsound.

Voss needs to be judged solely on what's he's done as senior coach, which frankly is very little of note.

Both Bolton and Teague were poor choices as senior coach.

That doesn't stop the choice of Voss being poor too.

Though it may well point to a flawed selection process.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

No other Club has ever subjected themselves to this nonsense this century -

North, Essendon, Brisbane, Melbourne have all had playing groups seeing off 3 coaches. St Kilda kind of.

Daniel rich is enjoying his 4th or 5th head coach...

 

[Blue1980]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

I said it 4 weeks ago, he’d need to win at least 1 before the bye. At the time it seemed I was being overly negative and we’d surely win one.

Now it’s expecting too much “short term sugar hit”.

Also Essendon were in the same position last year and sacked their coach. Who gives a shit what opposition supporters think of us, if we are losing and keep the same coach for 5 years finishing bottom 4, they will make as much fun of us as if we have 15 coaches i that time.

I do think that not only Voss should go, but possibly the first domino with a lot of players and off field staff as well.

 

[Blue1980]

Oh I'm with you on that. He shouldn't go until at least the end of this season. I personally think he's coaching for his job through the rest of this season. Not to play finals but we need to see improvement. If we're still playing this turgid game style, unable to score at the end of this season then I think it's time to go.

I love the notion of sticking fat with a coach but I have this dreaded feeling we'll do it for the first time with the wrong coach.

People say wait till the end of the season, but imagine another 10 games like the last 4?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

This is simple reality, if we lose the next 2 weeks, we will have lost 7 on the trot and will hit the bye with a record of 4 & 9, in 15th position. That is so far from acceptable given our ambition at the start of the year that Voss position becomes untenable... That is why the next 2 weeks are critical, not because we Carlton fans are overreacting to a few losses.

 

[Jatz]

People say wait till the end of the season, but imagine another 10 games like the last 4?

I'm almost expecting just that.

I still don't think sacking a coach in round 13 achieves anything at all.

He's admitted there's problems that need addressing, give him the rest of the season and see how he goes addressing them.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I'm almost expecting just that.

I still don't think sacking a coach in round 13 achieves anything at all.

He's admitted there's problems that need addressing, give him the rest of the season and see how he goes addressing them.

Sacking a coach mid season only doesnt achieve anything if we are not prepared to appoint the new coach in the offseason.. This is dumb IMO.. If Voss goes at the bye, we should have the new coach in place before the next match, maybe with a 1-2 game interim max..

The moment we decide Voss aint our guy pull the trigger and identify who is and get them straight away.. Right now Dimma is available, ask the question and get him in.. Identify an assistant at a top club and pay out their contract... Ask the question of Longmire and get him in.. We don't need to run a 6-month process with presentations and interviews... Make the calls and appoint. Why waste half a season of more of this sh 1 t if the answer is inevitable.

 

[Jatz]

Sacking a coach mid season only doesnt achieve anything if we are not prepared to appoint the new coach in the offseason.. This is dumb IMO.. If Voss goes at the bye, we should have the new coach in place before the next match, maybe with a 1-2 game interim max..

The moment we decide Voss aint our guy pull the trigger and identify who is and get them straight away.. Right now Dimma is available, ask the question and get him in.. Identify an assistant at a top club and pay out their contract... Ask the question of Longmire and get him in.. We don't need to run a 6-month process with presentations and interviews... Make the calls and appoint. Why waste half a season of more of this sh 1 t if the answer is inevitable.

Dimma is over in the states enjoying time off. Would be pointless sacking Voss now if that's who we're chasing.

 

[Its an amigo!]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Or conversely, if our rivals had a coach who it was clear to all and sundary that he does not have the game plan, communication or acumen to be a good coach, then I'd be enjoying every minute of that club holding on to that coach. Like when Essendon had Ben Rutten - I was disappointed when I heard they got rid of him.

Sounds like the player factions and mass exodus rumors are starting to heat up. Seems similar to what happened at Brisbane under Crazy Voss when he was there.

 

[JustaBattler]

Your logic is unsound.

Voss needs to be judged solely on what's he's done as senior coach, which frankly is very little of note.

Both Bolton and Teague were poor choices as senior coach.

That doesn't stop the choice of Voss being poor too.

Though it may well point to a flawed selection process.

my logic is rarely wrong - wether Voss is a good coach or not is yet to be determined - for sure though he isnt a miracle worker

North, Essendon, Brisbane, Melbourne have all had playing groups seeing off 3 coaches. St Kilda kind of.

Daniel rich is enjoying his 4th or 5th head coach...

not in teh period 2016-2022 they habvent and that's what I'm talking about - the longest run any Carlton coach has had at Carlton this century is Ratten - kicked out by a bunch of nuffies and backstabbing drongos because he dragged a wooden spooner to finals and a kick out of prelim - not good enough !

This is simple reality, if we lose the next 2 weeks, we will have lost 7 on the trot and will hit the bye with a record of 4 & 9, in 15th position. That is so far from acceptable given our ambition at the start of the year that Voss position becomes untenable... That is why the next 2 weeks are critical, not because we Carlton fans are overreacting to a few losses.

it is your reality mate there is nothing 'simple' about anything

Or conversely, if our rivals had a coach who it was clear to all and sundary that he does not have the game plan, communication or acumen to be a good coach, then I'd be enjoying every minute of that club holding on to that coach. Like when Essendon had Ben Rutten - I was disappointed when I heard they got rid of him.

Sounds like the player factions and mass exodus rumors are starting to heat up. Seems similar to what happened at Brisbane under Crazy Voss when he was there.

what player 'factions'...exactly the ones that some DH clickbaiter coughed up for clicky bait readers to anguish over?

 

[Blue1980]

I'm almost expecting just that.

I still don't think sacking a coach in round 13 achieves anything at all.

He's admitted there's problems that need addressing, give him the rest of the season and see how he goes addressing them.

Yes, but if we know he’s not the guy after what would be 9 losses in 10 matches (losing the next two is what I think would do him in before the bye), why keep him?

As I have said before I said after the brisbane game if we ended up going on a 7 game losing run (which I could see happening) he would lose his job. At the time most thought that was the height of negativity, no way we are that bad etc etc.

Now it’s only 2 weeks away from that, and I still hold the same view, and many others have had it for some time, so it’s hardly knee jerk saying he now has 2 weeks when he’s already had the side playing turgid football getting worse for over 2 months.

So if he hasn’t turned it around in 2 weeks and we are still barely scoring 50 points a game, with the same crap resulting in 9 losses in 10, I don’t think a further sample size of 8 games is required.

 

[JustaBattler]

Yes, but if we know he’s not the guy after what would be 9 losses in 10 matches (losing the next two is what I think would do him in before the bye), why keep him?

As I have said before I said after the brisbane game if we ended up going on a 7 game losing run (which I could see happening) he would lose his job. At the time most thought that was the height of negativity, no way we are that bad etc etc.

Now it’s only 2 weeks away from that, and I still hold the same view, and many others have had it for some time, so it’s hardly knee jerk saying he now has 2 weeks when he’s already had the side playing turgid football getting worse for over 2 months.

So if he hasn’t turned it around in 2 weeks and we are still barely scoring 50 points a game, with the same crap resulting in 9 losses in 10, I don’t think a further sample size of 8 games is required.

many other hodl your view- did you take a poll? Why nto start one that way we can have a record of who is who in this zoo...

 

[Blue1980]

many other hodl your view- did you take a poll? Why nto start one that way we can have a record of who is who in this zoo...

Many others have been saying it for a while, it’s not like a knee jerk reaction to sack a coach off a back of a couple of poor losses, you do it when it seems systemic.

I think the player group has big issues too, but I don’t think vossy is the guy to rectify it either. Though if we win one of the next two and/or start playing some more daring footy I’m willing to give him more time.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

not in teh period 2016-2022 they habvent and that's what I'm talking about - the longest run any Carlton coach has had at Carlton this century is Ratten - kicked out by a bunch of nuffies and backstabbing drongos because he dragged a wooden spooner to finals and a kick out of prelim - not good enough !

Oh sorry thought you meant since 2000 - even still 'we' aren't great at this stability 'thing'. I think we supporters know the value of ratts now, the so-called 'goat' of coaching has him as his most or second most trusted general. Says enough to me, now, that ratts was worth keeping hold of. I don't know about the board level but would these backstabbers etc be there still? I assume you're referring to the group that orchestrated the Carlton Malthouse 'move'

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

many other hodl your view- did you take a poll? Why nto start one that way we can have a record of who is who in this zoo...

The only one that will matter is Luke Sayers and the board, and any high performing, accountable management would not tolerate such under performance across a sustained period, particularly with no signs of obvious improvement... if we lose to Ess & GCS it will arguably be getting worse.

 

[bmaurizio]

Certainly if we lose to Ess & GCS, the constant media critical analysis, speculation of our situation will become intolerable .
Vossey position may become untenable.

 

[skadoosh]

Here's an interesting post from r/CarltonBlues:

Okay, here's a related but different take, when you constantly scrap coaches and support staff, the only people left are the players. The players end up having the longest history in the club and knowing more about the club, players and systems than the rotating door of whatever coach is at the club that week.

Then a new coach comes and says "we're going to do this to try and improve" and player says "Screw that, we tried it already with the previous coach and it sucks and didn't work or help". So the players end up being the ones with more insight and knowledge to the club than the people hired and yet feel forced to abide by the inexperienced coach.

Players them become frustrated and feel over managed by inexperienced people and you end up with a conflict of having bosses who have not learned what you have learned the hard way already.

On top of that they don't expect that manager will be around in 18 months because coaches never get to stay, and they end up disassociating from the whole system because they are in an endless loop of the same crap every 2-3 years and their time as an elite athlete is usually less than 15 years of a career to be had so they feel their personal potential as a footy player being wasted.

 

[JustaBattler]

Oh sorry thought you meant since 2000 - even still 'we' aren't great at this stability 'thing'. I think we supporters know the value of ratts now, the so-called 'goat' of coaching has him as his most or second most trusted general. Says enough to me, now, that ratts was worth keeping hold of. I don't know about the board level but would these backstabbers etc be there still? I assume you're referring to the group that orchestrated the Carlton Malthouse 'move'

You cant have any organisational development changing leadership positions every two years and not being able to handle setbacks, learn from them , and move forward - people have to learn to embrace error as part of building to success...

When Cook said the world doesn't come to an end if the team doesn't make finals- he was speaking the truth from a perspective of experience and maturity.

he probably knows as does Voss and anyone else with a brain - that the list is unbalanced, unfinished and has a lot of holes....

until that is sorted expectations have to be commensurate with ability.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

It's not so much who do we want to coach us after Voss but more who do we want to sack after we sack Voss?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The only one that will matter is Luke Sayers and the board, and any high performing, accountable management would not tolerate such under performance across a sustained period, particularly with no signs of obvious improvement... if we lose to Ess & GCS it will arguably be getting worse.

Objectively, I feel like the most sensible course of action the club should do is get rid of the unhappy/mutiny players (as many as feasibly possible) and let Voss see out his contract in 2023.

What have we got to lose doing that ? We sure as **** ain't winning the flag in the next 2 or 3 years, and repeating the same mistakes over and over is the definition of Insanity.

Let's try something different/more bold and daring as a footy club for the change.