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I don’t think Howe getting some junk time goals when the opposition paid him no respect really tells us anything.
Review Round 20 = Collingwood 76-93 Carlton
- Thread starter PonsfordMagpie
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- Aug 3, 2020
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What? Kicks inside 50 are not usually direct turnovers, which is what Adams' were. His impact was entirely negative. If he had ever learnt to kick a footy better than a 12 year old then Carlton wouldn't have had as many opportunities. He was s**t!
Tarkyn_24
Okeydoke7 is [redacted]
- Dec 23, 2006
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Watching McStay late in the ruck and we just cannot do him as even a temporary ruckman, he’s hopeless in that position.
If Cox is insistent on lumbering way off his opponents and losing ruck contests to forwards then Frampton really is the only option unless Cameron can effectively play 95% game time like Grundy used to.
If Cox is insistent on lumbering way off his opponents and losing ruck contests to forwards then Frampton really is the only option unless Cameron can effectively play 95% game time like Grundy used to.
Well in the 3rd quarter we had 17 inside F50's and kicked 2.5. Carlscum had just 5 F50 entries and kicked 3.1. That tells you the story of the night. We just kicked poorly, and they took their chances.
- Aug 11, 2008
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I've never seen a #1 team looking so vulnerable though. Sure Pies have impressive grit to win the close ones, but to me this team doesn't have the hard edge or discipline of playing four quarters like other #1 teams in the past. This usually gets exposed in finals.
Hope I'm wrong.
I agree that Cox needs a run in the VFL to find some form, but I wouldn't write off the Cameron/Cox ruck set-up just yet - it has served us well for the best part of 2 years.
are you sure they beat us on transition
I felt it was mostly on clearance
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I think they did in both regards!
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Yeah. Curnow is a deadset freak.
Most of our older players are still in our top dozen on the ground.
The names you mentioned like Tarks and OBree were no longer in that bracket they were fringe 16 to 26 ranges but still getting a game. Kinda like WHE but admittedly he's having a reasonable season.
I don't think we need to make wholesale changes more attitude for every player who steps out there to hit in hard like Maynard and co.
Carlton looked hungrier and more willing to crack in general.
We are the top team and still the team to beat imo no panick stations yet, even if there are some cracks appearing. Kick straight we win, so even our bad games are winnable.
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BEEG
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- Aug 2, 2007
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Cats didn't lose a game from round 9 last year, the whole game we had to lose is trash.
Let this sink in
2nd on the ladder
Beat Port by 2 points (I'm not counting round 2)
3rd on the ladder
Got pumped by Brisbane at home
4th on the ladder
Beat by the Dees should lost by 4 goals
5th on the ladder
Outplayed by Carlton all night lose by 2 goals
Are we really that good?
Let this sink in
2nd on the ladder
Beat Port by 2 points (I'm not counting round 2)
3rd on the ladder
Got pumped by Brisbane at home
4th on the ladder
Beat by the Dees should lost by 4 goals
5th on the ladder
Outplayed by Carlton all night lose by 2 goals
Are we really that good?
Is it possible that JDG is worse in the midfield when Naicos is in there?
Certainly titch is not in his best form and its impacting jordies game.
In reality, our chance in finals really relies on JDG and titch breaking even. ITs our main vulnerability
Right now they arent. All we have to worry about is getting them into form for finals
Our mix of talls is not going to determine our results
Certainly titch is not in his best form and its impacting jordies game.
In reality, our chance in finals really relies on JDG and titch breaking even. ITs our main vulnerability
Right now they arent. All we have to worry about is getting them into form for finals
Our mix of talls is not going to determine our results
- Aug 3, 2020
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This is some pretty high level doom & gloom. Impressive.
Why do we have to be like Geelong? In 2021, Melbourne beat Geelong in R23 by 4 points, West Coast in R21 by 9 points, lost to the Bulldogs in R19 (who finished 5th) by 20 points, drew with Hawthorn in R18 (who finished 14th), and lost to GWS in R16 (who finished 7th). They also lost to Adelaide & us earlier in that season, who finished 15th and 17th respectively.
I'm not sure if you knew this, but you don't have to win every H&A game (let alone win convincingly) to be really good.
It tells us if the opposition pay him no respect then he will hit the scoreboard. It also showed that his finishing was incredibly sharp for a player that is a defender and has not applied his forward craft for years. Elliott/McStay both missed their snap shots tonight. Howe looked like a natural.
It should ease the pressure on the other forwards. Will be interesting to see if Macrae starts Howe forward this week.
- Mar 16, 2014
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Was too disappointed to comment last night. First the Matilda, then this. A bad couple of days.
So, I’ll try to be balanced:
We are in trouble if we get smashed in clearance like that. There’s no getting around it, you can’t keep winning against the top teams coming out of your defense.
So the three teams that troubled us used the same game style: win clearance, gain territory, come forward at the counterattacks from our back line.
I was surprised by our lack of competitiveness in clearances though. We had our A team and Carlton didn’t. This is a huge problem. Mitchell is a part of it, but the entire setup is sending shivers down my spine.
Player concerns:
1. Mitchell - jeez, we got him for his inside work. What happened in the last few weeks? Looked hopelessly old and slow last night. The modern game is built on pace. And he ain’t got none. Adams looked way more competitive in the role when he went in.
2. Cox - sorry Mason, you just have to be more consistent. Your face on the bench told us you understand you just played yourself out of the team.
3. Cameron - a good sold trier, but I’m sorry, he’s a downgrade on Grundy, who was good at clearance. The trade for McStay looks to have been well chosen, so let’s not go there, but can this guy take 90% of ruck with a chop out from McStay, who isn’t competitive in the role? I worry About that combination. But Mason isn’t working right now. I‘d be looking at Johnson again. Or Frampton.
Having said that, we only got beat by three goals and squandered chances every way you looked. Our reliance on back half counterattacks puts us in these positions but we still are competitive. A couple of decisions or better skills and we might have pinched it, but they would still have been the better team.
the verdict:
we have to improve our clearance, contest and forward half defense. Otherwise one of the other teams will get us: Melbourne, Port, Carlton. One of them.
That‘s the riddle we have to answer. We have a month.
So, I’ll try to be balanced:
We are in trouble if we get smashed in clearance like that. There’s no getting around it, you can’t keep winning against the top teams coming out of your defense.
So the three teams that troubled us used the same game style: win clearance, gain territory, come forward at the counterattacks from our back line.
I was surprised by our lack of competitiveness in clearances though. We had our A team and Carlton didn’t. This is a huge problem. Mitchell is a part of it, but the entire setup is sending shivers down my spine.
Player concerns:
1. Mitchell - jeez, we got him for his inside work. What happened in the last few weeks? Looked hopelessly old and slow last night. The modern game is built on pace. And he ain’t got none. Adams looked way more competitive in the role when he went in.
2. Cox - sorry Mason, you just have to be more consistent. Your face on the bench told us you understand you just played yourself out of the team.
3. Cameron - a good sold trier, but I’m sorry, he’s a downgrade on Grundy, who was good at clearance. The trade for McStay looks to have been well chosen, so let’s not go there, but can this guy take 90% of ruck with a chop out from McStay, who isn’t competitive in the role? I worry About that combination. But Mason isn’t working right now. I‘d be looking at Johnson again. Or Frampton.
Having said that, we only got beat by three goals and squandered chances every way you looked. Our reliance on back half counterattacks puts us in these positions but we still are competitive. A couple of decisions or better skills and we might have pinched it, but they would still have been the better team.
the verdict:
we have to improve our clearance, contest and forward half defense. Otherwise one of the other teams will get us: Melbourne, Port, Carlton. One of them.
That‘s the riddle we have to answer. We have a month.
Kick straight they won the game and that would've papered over some issues.
If Macrae can't fix the territory game it'll be extremely difficult to win thr flag.
If Macrae can't fix the territory game it'll be extremely difficult to win thr flag.
Our forward line is not a Premiership winning one.
McStay > Mihocek
Howe probably better too.
I’d now say Mihocek needs to go back to the VFL and find some form. Play Howe and McStay together next few weeks. Bring Ash Johnson in as a third tall.
Frampton absolutely needs to be playing down back. Can’t have only intercept defenders all leaving their men.
Bobby Hill isn’t a pressure player. As in when pressure is on him. So he concerns me at the pointy end of the season this year. Ginnivan has found some form in the VFL and thrives in the big games. Time for him to come back.
Lipinski needs VFL time too.
Markov is probably in our best 18 lately.
Cox absolutely is not worth playing. Limited time on ground to do nothing much.
Going in early for next week
Out: Lipinski, Mihocek, Cox
In: Ginnivan, Frampton, WHE
SUB: McCreery
McStay > Mihocek
Howe probably better too.
I’d now say Mihocek needs to go back to the VFL and find some form. Play Howe and McStay together next few weeks. Bring Ash Johnson in as a third tall.
Frampton absolutely needs to be playing down back. Can’t have only intercept defenders all leaving their men.
Bobby Hill isn’t a pressure player. As in when pressure is on him. So he concerns me at the pointy end of the season this year. Ginnivan has found some form in the VFL and thrives in the big games. Time for him to come back.
Lipinski needs VFL time too.
Markov is probably in our best 18 lately.
Cox absolutely is not worth playing. Limited time on ground to do nothing much.
Going in early for next week
Out: Lipinski, Mihocek, Cox
In: Ginnivan, Frampton, WHE
SUB: McCreery
We aren’t allowed to lose a game. We are the only team that has. All the other top teams are unbeaten and never have bad games it seems
Magnanimous
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- Sep 10, 2020
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On reflection we had set our selves up for last week as Carlton did for this week.
However having said that, we won't be getting too deep with a performance like that .
Not sure on the loading or sickness running through but it was a very non Collingwood performance for me.
A real nearly night for a lot of players, and a nowhere near it for some others too.
Seems we have some players on the verge of coming back I to some form and a few right on the edge of dropping out.
I think we really need a Ginnivam back into the lineup with Hill.
Will be some tough calls to come but it all starts from how we respond next week.
Maybe the loss we needed to re-light the fire.
from my Delorean
However having said that, we won't be getting too deep with a performance like that .
Not sure on the loading or sickness running through but it was a very non Collingwood performance for me.
A real nearly night for a lot of players, and a nowhere near it for some others too.
Seems we have some players on the verge of coming back I to some form and a few right on the edge of dropping out.
I think we really need a Ginnivam back into the lineup with Hill.
Will be some tough calls to come but it all starts from how we respond next week.
Maybe the loss we needed to re-light the fire.
from my Delorean
You do realise Hill did not play last night? We sorely missed Hills leg speed to break open Carlton.
One of Checkers/McStay/Elliott needs to sacrifice their own game to nullify the intercept marker. Nullify the intercept marker and we will obtain more stoppages and time in forward half.
The midfield game relies heavily upon a fit and firing De Goey - When he is up and about we look amazing. But we cannot rely only on De Goey.
Best analysis on this game Ive read on this board so far
Its all about clearance. Our season will live and die by it.
Dont understand why people are getting so intricate tinkering around the edges.
Right now we only really have one true solution to our clearance problem, and its JDG.
If we dont get clearance right, we will be watching the 2018 GF the sequel. Terrifying
Beat Port twice and 2nd on the ladder, beat Cats who the media are still licking their ass and the team to beat apparently, beat Dogs at Marvel who are on, beat Adelaide twice who are going well, won interstate clash convincingly
Give it a rest, we need work still and team seems to rotate a lot and not settled.
Concern is that we have the slowest mids in the AFL and need JDG & Daicos to play well all the time
Pendles
Adams
Lippa
Mitchell
Sidebottom
We need to improve our field kicking, centre clearances are killing us and work on how we solve those kick in from points, we need to stop walking away from the mark and give the opposition time and space
Lastly - Hill AJ & Frampton need to be best 23
I’m pretty confident there’s another gear to this side. You need to be at your best in September and win enough games along the way to qualify first. We’ve done the first part well so far and you can’t be ‘up’ for the entire season. Carlton were up for it, we were down in a lot of key areas and we got rolled. We’ve got some stuff to work on for sure but our best is better than anyone else’s I’m confident.
