Review Round 20 = Collingwood 76-93 Carlton

[Magnanimous]

Am I the only one who thinks pendles needs a spell? I love the bloke but he is turning into a turnover machine these past 2 weeks to the point where I wonder if he would be more suited to the sub role so we can protect his body and longevity. Plenty of players in the VFL who can have similar impact on the game with disposal efficiency and ground covered.... Just a thought

I think he does his best work in day games these days.


from my Delorean

 

[stormskye]

We lost one game. By 3 goals. We played s**t, had more inside 50’s and scoring shots.

It’s one game.

Carlton were bottom 4 6 weeks ago. That’s how tight the comp is.

We aren’t going to win every single game. The comps tight. There’s no standout team like geel last year. There’s 5-6 capable on any day that can win it.

Relax. Take a breath.

 

[No SPIN]

There wasn't a lot of difference between this game and the Port one. This time we didn't kick our goals and the Blues got frees in front of goal. Without that we win. Truth is we didn't play well in either game.

There are definite weaknesses in the middle and up forward. Some of these are personnel and I think we're going to see some changes. It will be interesting, because we've been reluctant to veer from our setup. Unless we give ourselves a mulligan after a tiring contest in Adelaide, this performance can't be ignored and a rethink is needed. If we're changing course it needs to be now.

What’s our weakness up fwd?

 

[Magnanimous]

Well in the 3rd quarter we had 17 inside F50's and kicked 2.5. Carlscum had just 5 F50 entries and kicked 3.1. That tells you the story of the night. We just kicked poorly, and they took their chances.

Missing the early goals and continuously missing gettable looks hurt us a lot.
Regardless of umpire decisions.

We weren't on for the four quarters.
We haven't had a full four quarter game maybe bar last week.

This will need to change as we get further into the year.

from my Delorean

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

I'll give you Bruzzy but not the other 2.

Crisp was the invisible man until 3/4 time.

JDG's kicking continues to let him and the team down, time and time again.

Fair enough. DeGoey’s kicking was poor.

 

[manicpie]

We lost one game. By 3 goals. We played s**t, had more inside 50’s and scoring shots.

It’s one game.

Carlton were bottom 4 6 weeks ago. That’s how tight the comp is.

We aren’t going to win every single game. The comps tight. There’s no standout team like geel last year. There’s 5-6 capable on any day that can win it.

Relax. Take a breath.

It gives the whole group a chance to reflect on what they did wrong. It should really be a blessing in disguise if we use it and learn from it.

 

[jathanas]

Our forward line is not a Premiership winning one.

McStay > Mihocek
Howe probably better too.

I’d now say Mihocek needs to go back to the VFL and find some form. Play Howe and McStay together next few weeks. Bring Ash Johnson in as a third tall.

Frampton absolutely needs to be playing down back. Can’t have only intercept defenders all leaving their men.

Bobby Hill isn’t a pressure player. As in when pressure is on him. So he concerns me at the pointy end of the season this year. Ginnivan has found some form in the VFL and thrives in the big games. Time for him to come back.

Lipinski needs VFL time too.

Markov is probably in our best 18 lately.

Cox absolutely is not worth playing. Limited time on ground to do nothing much.

Going in early for next week

Out: Lipinski, Mihocek, Cox
In: Ginnivan, Frampton, WHE

SUB: McCreery

Our forward line had more scoring opportunities than Carlton.

The Pies were well beaten in the clearances and contested ball. I suspect addressing that would go a long way towards making our defence and attack appear "premiership winning". Not sure this was due to the huge game last week, current training load, or a combination of those.

Cerra alone was the difference in the 2nd, the midfield appeared to have no answer.

 

[gouki88]

I’m pretty confident there’s another gear to this side. You need to be at your best in September and win enough games along the way to qualify first. We’ve done the first part well so far and you can’t be ‘up’ for the entire season. Carlton were up for it, we were down in a lot of key areas and we got rolled. We’ve got some stuff to work on for sure but our best is better than anyone else’s I’m confident.

We've seen flashes of that next gear I think. Just want a 4 quarter display. Doubt it comes until September

 

[cityslick1]

Mihochek has been unimpressive too often as a forward in recent times, and with Howe's cameo, McStays' decent game and AJ's availability, I'd omit Mihochek - give him a break, play him in the VFL, whatever, but he is not profiting from McStay's presence as expected.

Our forward line tonight was ineffective, with only McStay providing any kind of avenue to goal. McCreery did a few good things but twice fluffed the easiest of chances on goal, and is not enough of a presence to justify the automatic selection with which he seems blessed.

Cox's game had me questioning the club's list management, given he has just been signed up for a further two years. He cannot be selected next week on the strength of his performance tonight. You could see when he was benched that even he knew he is certain of playing first ruck for our VFL team next week.

Moore played his worst game in living memory. He is no full back, and when he is required to man up a FF star, the team is robbed of drive he might have provided in an intercept role. Quaynor was down, Maynard struggled, Murphy tried hard, Noble I thought was one of our better players, providing run and rebound where others failed to contribute.

De Goey, Mitchell, Naicos and Adams collectively decided to play their least effective game for the season.

The only positive from this win was the gifting of 3 free stubbies (added to the 4 I bought) at the Down Under Bar in Bangkok, thanks to a Carlton win prompting an emotional out-pouring of generosity from 2 Carlton supporters, and (inexplicably) 1 Collingwood supporter, all 3 ringing the bell and buying drinks for about 20 patrons.

The same Collingwood supporter and the most vocal Carlton supporter (of which there seemed far too many) were nose to nose, chest to chest after the game. A punch on seemed inevitable, but the intervention of a few soothing, sweet-talking sort of chaps nipped the fight in the bud, to the point where the men were all but fondling each other with the physicality of their cringeworthy backdowns.

Not that I wanted to witness a fight - in the end it's only a game, even if they are scum and we're not. But tonight, we were more scum than them.

This

 

[Scud2]

We all hate losing. We all hate losing to Carlton. We still were thereabouts despite playing 6/10. But the issues that cost us matches are there every match and nothing changes.

Adams disposal has let us down going inside 50 all year. If he isn’t in the guts winning clearances, liability.
Cox is too much of a non-factor.
Lipinski has looked slow and uncomfortable since he returned.
Howe the same. Swung forward tonight no doubt to find a way to fit Frampton down back. If he didn’t show something, he might have been out soon.
Mihocek looks terrible. Has kicked 3 goals since Queens Bday.
Moore should not be a one on one full back playing on oppositions best forwards. Get him impacting up the ground where he can play to his strengths. Been getting a bath recently by his opponents - Curnow (frees are soft), Jamarra, Tex Walker in recent weeks.
Crisp is consistently playing out of position and has little impact on games compared to last year.
Mitchell, Pendles, Sidey form all dropped since earlier in the season.
N Daicos for all the deserved praise can go MIA for long periods.
De Goey still looks a step behind since returning.

We don’t pick players who are actually in good form. Need to be more ruthless at selection which hopefully bleeds that mentality into game day.
Frampton has hardly put a foot wrong all year before being dropped to fit in players who didn’t earn their way in
Ash Johnson kicked 6 in two weeks at AFL level before being dropped to fit in players who also didn’t earn their way in.
Finlay Macrae will be up there in the VFL beat and fairest for the league but doesn’t get a look in.
Ginnivan has been in good form the last month at VFL level but we bring back Hoskin Elliott with a broken hand from two weeks ago.

We win hit outs but just cannot win clearances despite having so called ‘elite’ midfielders and ball winners. Too often the case in losses. Same problem as last year and the previous five years.

Too easy to score against on the turnover even though we always play a spare back but we just get it kicked over our heads. Too often caught in no man’s land during the scoring Tsunamis that happen again us.

Too focused on zones when we should be stopping the consistent chip kicks from our forward 50 that have happened all year. Give up cheap territory all the way to the wings over and over again. Especially evident in games where we lose.

Never any plan Bs when we are getting beaten. It’s just sit back and hopefully we can play the old come back card in the 4th which doesn’t work when we blow so many set shots. But there are long periods in every game where we get pretty well beaten.

Last year felt like such a waste falling short after such an exciting year. Don’t let it happen again.

 

[SchuPie]

Review it hard
Learn how to get our game back when opp tactics take it away
Allow players to have a down game but assess what our best 22 looks like / needs to look like
I don’t don’t like resting but do we need a few to re-charge or go away and work on their game (and give others a taste)? It’s dangerous but it might might pay off later.

 

[No SPIN]

You know, I’m not gonna turn on Fly, but his words are just starting to creep into hollow territory now.

“Teams try to take things away from you”

Yet we continually don’t try take things away from them

“Selection integrity”

Yet we continually don’t reward good VFL performers and players who continually play terrible football keep their spot in the side

“We’re in the business of improving every week”

Played great against the Suns
Worse agains the Dogs
Worse against Freo
Worse again against Port
Worse again tonight

Really hope there aren’t deeper seeded issues we’re not addressing

We’ve won 16 games - so “we’ve taken away things” 16 out of 19 times.

 

[cityslick1]

I’m pretty confident there’s another gear to this side. You need to be at your best in September and win enough games along the way to qualify first. We’ve done the first part well so far and you can’t be ‘up’ for the entire season. Carlton were up for it, we were down in a lot of key areas and we got rolled. We’ve got some stuff to work on for sure but our best is better than anyone else’s I’m confident.

I also think you need to lose a game : get a rocket at this time of year.
Our lack of pace in midfield has always been an issue… hence why you need Nick, Crisp and JDG to be dominating, and players like McCreery, Hill, Adams, Markov and Noble providing extra run and drive.
Lipinski, Mitchell and pendles all working together are giving the opposition motivation to push up, bring the heat and force us to make mistakes. Allan, Ryan and even Macrae or an incoming mid (Hollands) should be the answer to this longer term, but Fly needs to find an answer for the short term..

 

[No SPIN]

We all hate losing. We all hate losing to Carlton. We still were thereabouts despite playing 6/10. But the issues that cost us matches are there every match and nothing changes.

Adams disposal has let us down going inside 50 all year. If he isn’t in the guts winning clearances, liability.
Cox is too much of a non-factor.
Lipinski has looked slow and uncomfortable since he returned.
Howe the same. Swung forward tonight no doubt to find a way to fit Frampton down back. If he didn’t show something, he might have been out soon.
Mihocek looks terrible. Has kicked 3 goals since Queens Bday.
Moore should not be a one on one full back playing on oppositions best forwards. Get him impacting up the ground where he can play to his strengths. Been getting a bath recently by his opponents - Curnow (frees are soft), Jamarra, Tex Walker in recent weeks.
Crisp is consistently playing out of position and has little impact on games compared to last year.
Mitchell, Pendles, Sidey form all dropped since earlier in the season.
N Daicos for all the deserved praise can go MIA for long periods.
De Goey still looks a step behind since returning.

We don’t pick players who are actually in good form. Need to be more ruthless at selection which hopefully bleeds that mentality into game day.
Frampton has hardly put a foot wrong all year before being dropped to fit in players who didn’t earn their way in
Ash Johnson kicked 6 in two weeks at AFL level before being dropped to fit in players who also didn’t earn their way in.
Finlay Macrae will be up there in the VFL beat and fairest for the league but doesn’t get a look in.
Ginnivan has been in good form the last month at VFL level but we bring back Hoskin Elliott with a broken hand from two weeks ago.

We win hit outs but just cannot win clearances despite having so called ‘elite’ midfielders and ball winners. Too often the case in losses. Same problem as last year and the previous five years.

Too easy to score against on the turnover even though we always play a spare back but we just get it kicked over our heads. Too often caught in no man’s land during the scoring Tsunamis that happen again us.

Too focused on zones when we should be stopping the consistent chip kicks from our forward 50 that have happened all year. Give up cheap territory all the way to the wings over and over again. Especially evident in games where we lose.

Never any plan Bs when we are getting beaten. It’s just sit back and hopefully we can play the old come back card in the 4th which doesn’t work when we blow so many set shots. But there are long periods in every game where we get pretty well beaten.

Last year felt like such a waste falling short after such an exciting year. Don’t let it happen again.

So many generalizations here that are completely inaccurate in their application to our entire season as you assert.

No Plan B is incorrect - we’ve won 5/7trailing at 3/4 time.
We play the boundary and the corridor situationally, compared to corridor only in 2022.

 

[thebaldfacts]

Disappointing to lose but we are a lock for top 4, and that is where flags are won from.

The Herald Suns expected scores, which l assume are based on champion data, had us winning 92 to 86, which highlights the fact that we missed too many easy shots.

The old saying bad kicking is bad footy.

 

[No SPIN]

I'm not sure Titch and Tay can play in the same side with their current form. Between them, Pendles and Sidey we lose a lot of leg speed.

Also, I'm a big Mason fan, and he still might factor into our plans, however, Frampton is a better ruck and can free up Darcy Moore to play more attacking.

Lastly, and this is going to be unpopular, I believe WHE is in our best 22. He does things that no one except coaches respect e.g. 2-way running, and was in good form before he got injured.

In summary, I think our best side includes these players (in order of importance)

• Hill
• Frampton
• WHE

Titch and Adams combination has been fine for virtually the entire season. Adams was doing well fwd and Titch getting massive clearance numbers.
Titch is the issue - he just looks so indecisive now with ball in hand, and combined with his lower clearance numbers is at risk.
At his best he’s a lock, but he maybe running out steam in 2023.
Macrae’s injury couldn’t have come at a worse time.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Our forward line had more scoring opportunities than Carlton.

The Pies were well beaten in the clearances and contested ball. I suspect addressing that would go a long way towards making our defence and attack appear "premiership winning". Not sure this was due to the huge game last week, current training load, or a combination of those.

Cerra alone was the difference in the 2nd, the midfield appeared to have no answer.

It’s particularly worrisome if we’re to come up against Oliver/Petracca/Viney/Gawn in week one of finals. We can’t get our hands on it at the moment.

 

[BEEG]

Crazy question.

Can we play Howe around the grounds (not centre bounce) as a back up (just create a contest) with McStay chopping out at centre bounces?

Gives us a chance to bring more pace in.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Missing the early goals and continuously missing gettable looks hurt us a lot.
Regardless of umpire decisions.

We weren't on for the four quarters.
We haven't had a full four quarter game maybe bar last week.

This will need to change as we get further into the year.

from my Delorean

The concern for me is our inability to stop the opposition from getting run ons, and scoring heavily.
We were leading early in the second, then we let them kick the next 7 goals. We consistently do that, not always to that extent, but we have that innate ability to let the opposition score goals in clusters.
We do this in a final, and there won't be any coming back, like we saw last night....
What has also happened to our ability to win stoppage ball, and score? That was a strengthof ours, that seems to have disappeared in the past month.

 

[barrackers]

Off the back of last night I’m eagerly awaiting the return of multiple forwards kicking 100 goals in a season.

 

[No SPIN]

Mihochek has been unimpressive too often as a forward in recent times, and with Howe's cameo, McStays' decent game and AJ's availability, I'd omit Mihochek - give him a break, play him in the VFL, whatever, but he is not profiting from McStay's presence as expected.

Our forward line tonight was ineffective, with only McStay providing any kind of avenue to goal. McCreery did a few good things but twice fluffed the easiest of chances on goal, and is not enough of a presence to justify the automatic selection with which he seems blessed.

Cox's game had me questioning the club's list management, given he has just been signed up for a further two years. He cannot be selected next week on the strength of his performance tonight. You could see when he was benched that even he knew he is certain of playing first ruck for our VFL team next week.

Moore played his worst game in living memory. He is no full back, and when he is required to man up a FF star, the team is robbed of drive he might have provided in an intercept role. Quaynor was down, Maynard struggled, Murphy tried hard, Noble I thought was one of our better players, providing run and rebound where others failed to contribute.

De Goey, Mitchell, Naicos and Adams collectively decided to play their least effective game for the season.

The only positive from this win was the gifting of 3 free stubbies (added to the 4 I bought) at the Down Under Bar in Bangkok, thanks to a Carlton win prompting an emotional out-pouring of generosity from 2 Carlton supporters, and (inexplicably) 1 Collingwood supporter, all 3 ringing the bell and buying drinks for about 20 patrons.

The same Collingwood supporter and the most vocal Carlton supporter (of which there seemed far too many) were nose to nose, chest to chest after the game. A punch on seemed inevitable, but the intervention of a few soothing, sweet-talking sort of chaps nipped the fight in the bud, to the point where the men were all but fondling each other with the physicality of their cringeworthy backdowns.

Not that I wanted to witness a fight - in the end it's only a game, even if they are scum and we're not. But tonight, we were more scum than them.

Way to early to condemn the McStay/Mihocek combo - the solution is to persist so they develop cohesion not to drop Brodie.
Not sure you can expect cohesion with so few games together.

 

[Roverjg]

None of our top six goal kickers for the season kicked a goal last night.

Worse still Mihocek is so out of form should he go back to the VFL at the expense of Ash to find some form. Mihocek's last 5 games have yielded 3 goals (1 gimee)
Vs Carlton, 7 kicks, 3M, 25% DE, 0 goals 6 direct turnovers
Vs PA, 5 kicks, 2M, 50% DE, 2 goals
Vs GCS, 6 kicks, 4M, 80% DE, 0 goals
Vs Ade, 6 kicks, 2M, 25% DE, 0 goals
Vs Melb, 7 kicks, 3M 37% DE, 1 goal

 

[No SPIN]

Imo the worst one was the Ruck infringement for high, Cox was pretty stiff there as Curnow and he engaged how most rucks would but the height difference meant his arm come across slightly high but Curnow also pushed up into his arm pit attributing to the contact.

This.
Curnow intentionally positioned himself under Cox’s arm and then milked the free.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

We’ve won 16 games - so “we’ve taken away things” 16 out of 19 times.

I’m not sure we took much away more so than “played our way” better and applied actual pressure

Not sure I saw much pressure being applied on the Blues yesterday

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

None of our top six goal kickers for the season kicked a goal last night.

Worse still Mihocek is so out of form should he go back to the VFL at the expense of Ash to find some form. Mihocek's last 5 games have yielded 3 goals (1 gimee)
Vs Carlton, 7 kicks, 3M, 25% DE, 0 goals 6 direct turnovers
Vs PA, 5 kicks, 2M, 50% DE, 2 goals
Vs GCS, 6 kicks, 4M, 80% DE, 0 goals
Vs Ade, 6 kicks, 2M, 25% DE, 0 goals
Vs Melb, 7 kicks, 3M 37% DE, 1 goal

“Selection integrity” tho