Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left
- Thread starter BigVic
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Was lucky to get votes in that game, unlucky not to get votes in others.
So to summarise:
I definitely considered Neale a smokey. He had a few off games but then piled on BOGs that were recognised by the coaches.
Dunkley is a great midfielder but not one you'd think the umpires pay attention to. Ashcroft is a great young player.
Brisbane have a number of great forwards and defenders but these just don't take many 2/3 votes. They also won a lot of games and so plenty of votes were on offer.
- Oct 13, 2015
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Not to throw the cat among the pigeons here but Neale got a pretty funny vote in a 100 point loss in round 23 last year to get ahead of Touk Miller.
While Lachie had a better year last year than this one, we also won 2 fewer games and when lachie was good this year, they were pretty clear 3 vote games. He wouldn't have won if Daicos didn't get injured, or if the dogs were good enough to win a few more games so bont could get more votes. If you take the GWS game off him and don't consider that he could easily have got more votes in a couple of other games, he finished tied second with Daicos, one vote behind Bont.
Ultimately its a pretty close and low vote count given modern vote numbers that winners get and the fact that there was an extra round this year. Lachie won with 31 votes in a 17 game season in 2020 as a point of comparison.
Likewise I thought Lachie would come in 5th or 6th due to publicity factor for Daicos and Bont , but still believed he'd be up there.
I wonder how many posters on the main thread will put their hand up and say they watched every Brisbane game so we know they're posting on what they saw and just not talking out of their backsides. And cherry picking from stats sheets in a couple of games.
I watched every game ,he was exceptional with hard bell gets and clearances and was most often the first to stand up when we were under the pump . He played every game. He's a champ.
- Oct 13, 2015
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- 22,218
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Yep, Dunkley playing a far more defensive role for us than he did for the Dogs last year as well, and it took McCluggage about 10 rounds to wake up this year. Ashcroft actually had 10 votes in his 19 games so might have been a chance to take a few off Lachie at the end if he hadn't done his knee.
People can bring up Priddis and Woewoden if they wish, I'm not sure this one is any more egregious than Ollie Wines just 2 years ago.
dlanod
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- #457
Definitely agree on the forwards/defenders bit (four out of our next five scoring players being forwards and defenders hammers this tome), but Dunkley is the one that caught me out - I was expecting him to poll in the mid to high teens, and Neale to probably cap out around the mid 20s as a result. I really don't know how he only got four votes as the clear second best midfielder in a top two team.
Although looking it up, four votes actually tied for his highest Brownlow total - he got the same in 2017, 2018, 2021 and 2022. Five times! I can only assume he must have run over an umpire's dog or something somewhere along the way.
Bont incredibly unlucky. Could be a dual winner yet has none
Some players get votes just by showing up. Cripps shouldn't have got half that amount, nor Steele.
Brownlow very quickly losing lustre. Aflpa/ca awards surely more prestigious among players
Some players get votes just by showing up. Cripps shouldn't have got half that amount, nor Steele.
Brownlow very quickly losing lustre. Aflpa/ca awards surely more prestigious among players
it was lost when wanganeen won it as a back pocket picking up 17 disposals a game in a season where ablett and carey put together two of the greatest individual seasons the game has ever seen and greg williams absolutely dominated as the games undisputed best midfielder.
other ridiculous wins include:
goodes first brownlow. Played as a sole ruck picking up 17 unmanned disposals a game and only 12 hit outs. 12! Could probably add jim stynes win here as well as he only averaged 11 hit outs a game as a ruck. But he at least averaged 25 disposals a game when disposals were harder to come by.
judds second brownlow (he wasnt even considered all australian worthy that year)
Priddis (See Judd)
cooney 2008 over ablett. Cooney had a great season but ablett was destructive that year. you could probably add bartel over ablett 2007 as Well. The irony with ablett jnr is he won it in the worst of his four dominant years at geelong.
brad hardie. Yep he won a brownlow.
It seems fairly clear that the umpires see and weight contested disposals far more than people watching at home, who tend to weight uncontested/metres gained more. They also don't look at stats and particularly not supercoach so aren't swayed by
I guess it makes sense - they are seeing and appreciating the strength and skill that takes right up close, and may tend to miss the fast play down the wing. A bit like sitting on the boundary vs on level 4 as a spectator.
Hence Neale, Cripps, and to some extent guys like Viney poll well, particularly when they have low (relative) disposal but high CP games. And outside players can rack up 40 loose touches and in particular, kicking goals as a small or medium forward who gets on the end of a chain of handballs, et, and get nothing.
There is also an issue with thr 3-2-1 voting system. BOG gets triple the votes of the third best player and fourth gets none, no matter thr quality of game. You can be the 'best' player in a 100+ point blowout against West Coast that no one watched after quarter time and get 3, or you can have a ripper in the hardest, toughest game all year but miss out because so many others played well, and of course the public sees that.
I still think it is the best, most neutral and least affected by distortion award we have. Neale was rated highly and played in a lot of 'off radar' games. The other players tipped to do well did so, with a few smokies here and there etc.
I guess it makes sense - they are seeing and appreciating the strength and skill that takes right up close, and may tend to miss the fast play down the wing. A bit like sitting on the boundary vs on level 4 as a spectator.
Hence Neale, Cripps, and to some extent guys like Viney poll well, particularly when they have low (relative) disposal but high CP games. And outside players can rack up 40 loose touches and in particular, kicking goals as a small or medium forward who gets on the end of a chain of handballs, et, and get nothing.
There is also an issue with thr 3-2-1 voting system. BOG gets triple the votes of the third best player and fourth gets none, no matter thr quality of game. You can be the 'best' player in a 100+ point blowout against West Coast that no one watched after quarter time and get 3, or you can have a ripper in the hardest, toughest game all year but miss out because so many others played well, and of course the public sees that.
I still think it is the best, most neutral and least affected by distortion award we have. Neale was rated highly and played in a lot of 'off radar' games. The other players tipped to do well did so, with a few smokies here and there etc.
Like mentioned, Brisbane are bottom 4 in average disposals so we're a low disposal side overall which is going to influence individual numbers.
The other thing is the Brownlow voting rewards good games but doesn't necessarily punish poor ones. Neale had a less consistent season than he's had previously, but his top end games have been just as dominant IMO.
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Lucky is not the correct word, sorry champ.
Macca19
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Theres been far more controversial winners than Neale.
Ball magnet in a team that finished 2nd, traditionally one of the best voters of the current era. He was always a big chance due to how many games Brisbane won, compared to Daicos who missed a stack of games and Bont who played in a dumpster fire for half the year.
Ball magnet in a team that finished 2nd, traditionally one of the best voters of the current era. He was always a big chance due to how many games Brisbane won, compared to Daicos who missed a stack of games and Bont who played in a dumpster fire for half the year.
Bloody hell do you expect him to be taking the game nationwide in 1885? He was a pioneer.
Theres something to be said for tradition.
Pretty rude comment if you ask me.
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- #465
Wrong. Being in a winning team is not as big of an advantage as being a standout disposal winner. See Fyfe, Priddis, Ablett, Judd.
The decision making needs to be removed from the umpires. Some of the votes appear to be lazy choices as it always seems the popular player gets the vote over the performing player.
The AFL & TV still wants an awards night that has a level of suspense. So one of the existing award formats such as the coaches players award will need to be done secretly.
The AFL & TV still wants an awards night that has a level of suspense. So one of the existing award formats such as the coaches players award will need to be done secretly.
Been broken for a long time.
The rules of this game are so subjective, the umpires job is already too hard as it is.
Needs to be adjudicated differently.
The rules of this game are so subjective, the umpires job is already too hard as it is.
Needs to be adjudicated differently.
The winner has come from a side that's played finals 76% of the time in the AFL era.
Well, yes it is, it's better judged. Neale's Round 6 v GWS is baffling. He gets 3 votes for being 7th highest possession winner (20) while Charlie Cameron kicks 7 goals! In one game Daicos gets 38 possessions and doesn't get a vote. How on earth did Cripps get all those votes to? Petracca won the game for Melbourne against the Swans in the final round and gets bupkiss? The award is a farce. We now have four field umpires and they were way off the mark this year. Time for major change... Coaches need to be told that Ruckmen, Backmen and Forwards are unnecessary, the Umpires certainly think so.Like the AA award is much better
Lack of credibility is an AFL narrative, so why change anything?
- Blatant draft manipulation;
- Jobs for the boys;
- MCG deal;
- Match Review Committee;
- Score Reviews;
- Gils Hair;
- Etc...................................
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I think Neale is a victim of his own lofty standards. He had a good year but not as good as last year. This is why he himself didn't think he would win it. This however doesn't mean he didn't deserve it. I watched every Lions game this year and went to a couple. He still had a bloody good year. I have no problem with him winning it. It makes up for the farce of last year and he was still one of the best players in the league even though you could argue that Bont or Trac were better. Noone seemed to have an issue wiith him being named amongst the favourites before the count.
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I'm convinced they do. For further proof, you only need to look at how the votes suddenly plummet for stars who are in decline - say Martin and Dangerfield. Martin actually had a very good season, and was excellent late. Dangerfield isn't the same player, and was up and down, but still played some very good games. But the automatic "3 votes" they would have got 5 years ago - deserved or not - has now become maybe a 1 and 2, because the umpires have lost interest in them. The trendy players to them now are the current stars.
How Martin didn't get 3 against North late in the year is another howler.
Are the umps too scared to give clubs clean sweeps in votes or something?I'm sure this has been mentioned already but polling 3 votes in a 10 goal loss is a stitch up, too.
