Working from home, good/bad?

[BACCS]

I dont get why someone would want to stay working for somewhere where they aren't happy.

IMO the people who want to WFH full time will be weeded out as the economy slows and unemployment goes up. From my experience the ones who can do their job full time at home are very basic admin type roles, and easily replaced.

I'm certainly in favour of flexibility in the workplace but demanding to WFH full time is not being flexible, it's just as rigid as a business saying you need to be in the office full time. has to work both ways.

Very basic admin types? A rather large generalisation there. Anyone with an office job can do it from home.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Very basic admin types? A rather large generalisation there. Anyone with an office job can do it from home.

Just my experience, as i made very clear, am sure your experience may differ to mine.

i work in property development & construction, will probably differ industry to industry.

most of the guys who aren't required to be on site and or attend site or the office regularly are doing basic background admin type work. Easily replaceable in tough times.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I mean there are an absolute ton of people in IT that are not doing basic admin that are remote and have been for a long time

easily replaced is pretty much anyone at a large company though, they don't give a s**t, you're just a number

I said in my experience, I am sure industries like IT have more appropriate proportion of people who can do their jobs from home, and who have likely been doing so even prior to COVID.

All that matters is that the employee and the employer have an equitable agreement. That is was flexibility is, meeting in the middle. Only doing it the way you want is not being flexible, it is rigid.

CBA is a good example; they are literally only asking for people to meet in the middle. WFH 50% of the time and come in 50% of the time. That is more than a fair and flexible work arrangement, yet people still have to have a sook about it. These are the people IMO you make redundant, and i think this is what will roll out of the next 6-12 months as the economy tightens up.

 

[Gigantic]

Just my experience, as i made very clear, am sure your experience may differ to mine.

i work in property development & construction, will probably differ industry to industry.

most of the guys who aren't required to be on site and or attend site or the office regularly are doing basic background admin type work. Easily replaceable in tough times.

I'd say your industry is not the usual industry people have in mind when talking about workers wanting to work from home.

It's simple - if you work in an office and have access to a computer to do most of your work, you most likely can work from home in some capacity. Lawyers, investment bankers, marketing, the list goes on.

If you have to pick up tools, do site visits, have face-to-face meetings or appointments, then perhaps not.

But not as simple as - if you work from home full-time then you've got a basic admin job.

 

[BACCS]

Just my experience, as i made very clear, am sure your experience may differ to mine.

i work in property development & construction, will probably differ industry to industry.

most of the guys who aren't required to be on site and or attend site or the office regularly are doing basic background admin type work. Easily replaceable in tough times.

I work as a Project Manager. I have times that are required onsite, but 80% of the time I can do it from wherever.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I work as a Project Manager. I have times that are required onsite, but 80% of the time I can do it from wherever.

you work 80% time off site.....

as a PM in construction? lol what?

i cant believe that... what are you building that you can that?

 

[BACCS]

you work 80% time off site.....

as a PM in construction? lol what?

i cant believe that... what are you building that you can that?

Work in mining, but yep mostly offsite with maybe a week of site time a month. Have been doing it for nearly 2 years. Successfully executed 7 projects in that time, from concept through to commissioning. There are construction supervisors and others onsite that help out obviously.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Work in mining, but yep mostly offsite with maybe a week of site time a month. Have been doing it for nearly 2 years. Successfully executed 7 projects in that time.

ahh I'm not sure about mining

im in commercial, best i can manage is 50/50

between on site inspections, progress claims, variations, meeting with builders, design meetings etc etc.

i try to do 1 day a week WFH, but if i pushed it i could do 2. I definitely prefer being in the office though.

I mainly do the WFH days so i can do drop off pick up for my daughters' daycare, less so than actual WFH reasons.

 

[juss]

Just my experience, as i made very clear, am sure your experience may differ to mine.

i work in property development & construction, will probably differ industry to industry.

most of the guys who aren't required to be on site and or attend site or the office regularly are doing basic background admin type work. Easily replaceable in tough times.

Any job that doesn't require full time on site work can be working from home, what an odd statement. Obviously in the building and construction industry that may differ, but surely that's obvious enough due to the nature of those deliverables?

There are literally CEOs of massive organisations WFH the majority of times, it is far beyond basic admin jobs. In Tech for example some organisations are complete WFH for all employees.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

‘WFH is not a god-given right’: Business leaders back workplace ruling

Corporate leaders have welcomed a Fair Work Commission ruling that found being in the office could have benefits for productivity and collaboration.

www.afr.com

common sense prevails.

 

[juss]

What I'm seeing is a bell curve where a small amount require staff in full time, the majority of organisations* under the curve offer a 2 day home 3 day office or 2 day office 3 day home split, and a small amount offer full time remote/WFH.

*Obviously only for your jobs that don't require physical presence.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

What I'm seeing is a bell curve where a small amount require staff in full time, the majority of organisations* under the curve offer a 2 day home 3 day office or 2 day office 3 day home split, and a small amount offer full time remote/WFH.

*Obviously only for your jobs that don't require physical presence.

flexibility is the way of the world now, but the key is flexibility goes both ways.

People thinking, they are entitled to WFH full time, when their companies disagree's are in for a shock.

 

[burge13]

flexibility is the way of the world now, but the key is flexibility goes both ways.

People thinking, they are entitled to WFH full time, when their companies disagree's are in for a shock.

Likewise companies rolling back WFH rules when their staff look elsewhere

I've only just joined this place and asked for 2x per week WFH once I'm fully onboarded and autonomous. Reasonable request

"we're reviewing wfh. No new requests will be approved for a while"

If it's not approved early in the NY, onto seek I go. Not asking for much when the bloody directors are home themselves. Inept middle management not knowing how to manage is what will kill the WFH for everyone at a business, not the employees or the decision makers. You manage exactly the same as if they were in the office ffs, set deadlines and expectations. If they aren't met, you discuss why. The location of the work is irrelevant

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Likewise companies rolling back WFH rules when their staff look elsewhere

I've only just joined this place and asked for 2x per week WFH once I'm fully onboarded and autonomous. Reasonable request

"we're reviewing wfh. No new requests will be approved for a while"

If it's not approved early in the NY, onto seek I go. Not asking for much when the bloody directors are home themselves. Inept middle management not knowing how to manage is what will kill the WFH for everyone at a business, not the employees or the decision makers. You manage exactly the same as if they were in the office ffs, set deadlines and expectations. If they aren't met, you discuss why. The location of the work is irrelevant

I dont really have an issue with people leaving jobs to find a role that suits their lifestyle. Thats their right. But Employers have a right to run their business the way they want too. It's an employees right to leave if you dont like it.

if businesses dont offer what good employees want, they will suffer lack of talent.

It's the ones who expect their employers to just met their needs with zero flexibility. Just dumb IMO. As the economy continues to slow these are the people who are going to be caught out.

 

[juss]

flexibility is the way of the world now, but the key is flexibility goes both ways.

People thinking, they are entitled to WFH full time, when their companies disagree's are in for a shock.

All or nothing rarely works. An agreed split is likely where the desirable employers and emplyees will land on.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

All or nothing rarely works. An agreed split is likely where the desirable employers and emplyees will land on.

ANZ links bonuses to office attendance

The bank’s employees have been told their annual reward may be slashed if they fail to spend at least half of their scheduled working hours in the office.

www.afr.com

this is pretty fair IMO

 

[burge13]

ANZ links bonuses to office attendance

The bank’s employees have been told their annual reward may be slashed if they fail to spend at least half of their scheduled working hours in the office.

www.afr.com

this is pretty fair IMO

Why? If the work is getting done, the bonuses are deserved regardless of location

50/50 split isn't unfair or anything but that's still ridiculous.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Why? If the work is getting done, the bonuses are deserved regardless of location

50/50 split isn't unfair or anything but that's still ridiculous.

i disagree. its quite reasonable IMO.

Many bonus schemes are based on more than just doing the work.

My personal STI is made up of 4 areas. Only one of those is personal performance. I could theoretically do my work and only get 1/4 of by bonus pool if i dont meet the others.

Companies have a right to structure their companies how they want. Employees have a right to seek employment elsewhere.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

WFH while on overseas holiday claim dismissed

When a Ticketek manager was told his request to work from a hotel in South Korea needed to be discussed ‘more formally’, he had a panic attack and called in unfit for work for three months.

www.afr.com

this is a good read. Laughable really.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

‘WFH is not a god-given right’: Business leaders back workplace ruling

Corporate leaders have welcomed a Fair Work Commission ruling that found being in the office could have benefits for productivity and collaboration.

www.afr.com

common sense prevails.

Only reason to work in a office is for face to face interaction with a customer or consumer of the product you are selling

Otherwise, My hot take is if your staff cant work from home effectively, its because you are a bad manager of your staff or you have outdated and inefficent work practices that need changing. Whether that be recruiting the wrong people previously, having bad work practices in place, the cultural issues are what is driving the issue, not the location of the people

Fix the culture, fix the work practices and it really doesnt matter where they are

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Only reason to work in a office is for face to face interaction with a customer or consumer of the product you are selling

Otherwise, My hot take is if your staff cant work from home effectively, its because you are a bad manager of your staff or you have outdated and inefficent work practices that need changing. Whether that be recruiting the wrong people previously, having bad work practices in place, the cultural issues are what is driving the issue, not the location of the people

Fix the culture, fix the work practices and it really doesnt matter where they are

I mean that's your view.

Many companies disagree and would much rather a flexible arrangement which IMO is fair.

The Fair Work Commission has acknowledged the benefits in productivity in working in an office setting. Something that is drastically declining in Australia.

 

[burge13]

i disagree. its quite reasonable IMO.

Many bonus schemes are based on more than just doing the work.

My personal STI is made up of 4 areas. Only one of those is personal performance. I could theoretically do my work and only get 1/4 of by bonus pool if i dont meet the others.

Companies have a right to structure their companies how they want. Employees have a right to seek employment elsewhere.

No, your bonuses are tied to performance. If your performance doesn't suffer they can't take it away for location

Unless of course they gaurantee that part for showing up? Bet they don't do that. It just corporate greed on this one, beggars belief anyone would agree with bonuses being withheld because you performed the work at home. Illogical

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I mean that's your view.

Many companies disagree.

The Fair Work Commission has acknowledged the benefits in productivity in working in an office setting. Something that is drastcially declining in Australia.

Fair Work Commission is filled with 60 year olds who havnt adapted

Many companies disagree because Australia has a culture of horrible management. Our management practices are the worst in the western world

Our productivity standard have been in drastic decline since 2012, miles before WFH. This is just a convenient excuse for their incompetence mostly

All these issues are easily solvable is the sad thing. People just dont have the courage to solve them

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

i disagree. its quite reasonable IMO.

Many bonus schemes are based on more than just doing the work.

My personal STI is made up of 4 areas. Only one of those is personal performance. I could theoretically do my work and only get 1/4 of by bonus pool if i dont meet the others.

Companies have a right to structure their companies how they want. Employees have a right to seek employment elsewhere.

In Australia that is true and its probably why in Australia its such a insane failure also...

 

[HirdsTheWord]

No, your bonuses are tied to performance. If your performance doesn't suffer they can't take it away for location

Unless of course they gaurantee that part for showing up? Bet they don't do that. It just corporate greed on this one, beggars belief anyone would agree with bonuses being withheld because you performed the work at home. Illogical

No, not all my STI's are linked to performance.

Generally, mine are.

1) Performance & KPI's
2) WHS & OHS
3) Meeting company expectations (usually company BS)
4) Promoting Flexible Working to my direct reports
5) Professional Development

Performance is weighted more than the others for obvious reasons, but all up it only makes up roughly 25% of my bonus pool.