Autopsy Round 5, 2024: GWS v St.Kilda

[Joffaboy]

Will the Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

v Connor Rozee

1

Connor Rozee

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.6

5star

MG

189.2

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.4

3star

MG

189.2

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

3.4

5star

be the Jack Billings

14

Jack Billings

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

19.7

5star

K

11.7

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.3

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

V Marcus Bontempelli

4

Marcus Bontempelli

Age

30

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

10.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

18.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

8.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

1.8

4star

debate for this decade?
Just think Bont, Petracca and Rozee in our mids?

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Teflon]

Again I’m not sure Harves as the forward coach is working.
We don’t hold the ball in. Can’t kick straight. Have awful leading patterns.

I agree don’t think it’s structured/improving
Giants look far more organised

 

[SaintsofSteel]

The question for me is, would we be better of without King and having two more gun mids. As much as I love screaming MAAAAAXXXXXYYYYYYY!!!!! I also suspect we’d be better off with two gun mids. So it’s only normal that others question this as well…

As much as we shouldnt even consider that question, the answer is definitely yes. Melbourne and the Bulldogs won a flag with gun midfileds and throw together forward lines. You rarely if ever see key forwards winning the Norm Smith Medal in winning GF sides, they mostly go to midfielders who impact and win the big games. We had the best key forward in the game in 2009/2010 and he wasnt able to drag us over the line.

Max is good but Im convinced his weaknesses will not allow him to become great. Absolutely I would do the trade, but they would want to be elite midfielders with plenty of years left.

 

[kick it lace out]

Ross also thought Henry had hamstring cramp.

 

[Otiman]

Narrow losses against good sides. Character building, lessons to learn, and no points means a better draft hand.

We still don't action an end-game strategy like many other teams, so hopefully that's in the pocket ready to go.

 

[stavro#4]

Nobody is saying he is no good, just that our forward line seems to function better without him.
Is that structural, poor inside 50's, too many talls?
Admittedly it is anecdotal. We looked much more dangerous last year at the beginning with Hammer, Sharman and Membry seemingly more mobile. Today it was more GWS going to sleep and as someone noted Coniglio going off.
The forward line clogs with him there, is that a lack.of forward leading. bombing to the square a combo of both?
I don't know, but results where we kick 6 in 10 minutes after he has gone off will have people asking the question.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I understand you defending him, because it wasnt his fault we lost. But how would you describe his game today other then he was very ordinary. The difference with King is that he is such a focal point and we direct so many inside 50's to him, when he has an off day you see the other players drop their heads around him. The other forwards are working their arses off chasing and defending yet no balls get delivered in their direction. All too often you see things go against him and then see him drop his head - he has to understand that affects the entire team. If he wants to be paid and play as the main man then he needs to start consistently perfoming as such.

My take is for a key forward he is way to introverted and lacks genuine belief in himself far too often.

There is no rationale that says we are better without Max King.

That is the point I’m making. I’m not defending how poor he was. I accept it happens and he needs to deliver better.

But the hot takes wanting him at Sandy or wanting him traded because we are apparently better with caminiti are beyond laughable - they are stupid.

His suspension cost us the Essendon game. He was huge in round 1 and 2.

As easy as it is to smash him. Tell me what the side gave him today that made his life easier?

A key forward isn’t the problem. Usually there poor performances are the outcome of other issues.

 

[Plugger35]

Lockett would have kicked five today. All by dead straight drop punts.

Part of the reason he would have kicked five is he wouldn’t have left the forward 50. But it’d be five all the same!

You hardly ever saw Lockett kicking snap shots from set shots, even though he could kick snap shots as well as his usual straight set shots.

He didn't miss too many whichever way he kicked them, he didn't become the leading VFL/AFL goal kicker by accident.

It would be great to get him back down to Moorabbin to teach our forwards how to kick for goal but he probably has better things to do.

I don't know if he even watches our games these days and if he does he would probably be disgusted with our goal kicking like the rest of us

 

[botts]

Ross also thought Henry had hamstring cramp.

We have no luck with these. Expect the worse.

 

[stavro#4]

Ross also thought Henry had hamstring cramp.

 

[Cairnsman]

Time to trial King as a ruckman, he just doesn't look comfortable on an AFL field let alone being our Marquee forward.

It looks like if given a chance Caminiti could be our number one tall forward, just seems to give the impression he belongs at AFL level, King has never had that look,King has got the same scared nervous look Billings has, just like they fear being on.the field.

 

[topbillings]

He was walking around after the game without ice, without crutches and only seemed a little bit proppy. I'm hoping that's a good sign?

But yeah, hard to believe Ross "it's just cramp" Lyon on this one.

 

[jwint43]

Butler can't play again unless he is kicking 5 every week in VFL, we were essentially a man down with him on field, compare his effort to Garcia.

This score and the Geelong score flatter us big time, GWS are just so damn talented and we had to work so hard for everything.

Steele, Marshall, Ross our best. Owens had a weird game, Pou was okay and Sinclair has seemingly lost his confidence and we need him to find it quickly.

Hill might have had a big game on paper but his sloppy, lazy turnovers drive me insane

 

[Plugger35]

We have no luck with these. Expect the worse.

Usually the doctors and physios can tell if it's an ACL straight away without needing scans so hopefully it isn't the worst case scenario.

We are due for some luck with injuries.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

What????
All I said was either play king in the ruck or on the wing or give him a stint at Sandy or feel out a trade for him.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Instead of Marshall hack kick the ball forward 20 times a game.. I’d rather have him tapping to one of our mids and getting better/ cleaner entries and bring the rest of the midfield into the game.. Him hack kick forward = our other mids having no impact, and potential intercepts by opposition.

You're living in a fantasy world. Ruck taps are never that influential on a consistent basis.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Circus]

And another thing. The way Owens holds the ball for set shot drop kicks is almost guaranteed to fail. He holds the back and the top of the ball. It should be middle finger (more or less) of each hand on the side stitching, point the ball slightly downwards and hold it in the centre so that the drop, due to gravity, means the ball drops on to the top of your foot at the right angle. The way he holds it means the ball is almost certain to land anywhere on your foot, flatter than would allow control of it and it can go in any direction. That's why his snaps and kicks on the run are more accurate, he doesn't have the time to stuff up the way he holds it.

How hard would it be to show him how the hold it properly? He'd soon see the results himself. Its not rocket science or a mysterious artform!!

 

[CursingFijian]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief thinking that one more point would have got us 2 premiership points.

St Kilda can't footy when we're in the clinches. Teams like GWS are good enough to hold their space and rely on the man in the contest to get a handball to advantage or short kick. We just look chaotic with no synergy between players.

Tip of the hat to Hill who battled all day.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

Will the Max King v Connor Rozee be the Jack Billings V Marcus Bontempelli debate for this decade?
Just think Bont, Petracca and Rozee in our mids?

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Lol everyone keeps forgetting Nick Coffield -Aaron Naughton.

 

[saintbill]

We haven't been beaten 3 times.

We've lost 3 times.

Lost because we stuff up certain goals. Try to hit impossible passes in the middle of the ground when a player is surrounded by opponents etc etc. We get close to these teams playing 20 min of good football out of 80. Imagine if we did it for longer.

It's frustrating because we know we can be better.

I am not so sure I believe we can better right now.

The reality is are 10-13 since round 6 last year. This is us. We are not a good football side.

The Cats game and today severely flattered us on the scoreline. Could have easily lost to Tigers as well. Got a dream run against the Pies with the umps. Could easily be 0-5.

We have been crap all year, game style is also unwatchable.

No chance of finals this year. Hopefully the likes of Owens, Pou and especially King improve and we are half decent next year. Right now we suck.

 

[Yabadoo22]

First and foremost, I hope max is ok!
But gee he is becoming a worry. Really seems to drop the bottom lip and sook it up, when things aren't going his way. Has no competive streak in him, can't hold a mark, and when he does his set shots are generally horrific.

Hill was our best player all day.
Marshall not far behind him, he is such a competitor, and never gives up.
Same can be said about Steeley.
But after that, there cupboard was pretty bare today. Sincs hasn't come back to his best this year. Same as wilks. And again with buts.
Philipou is having serious case of the second year blues, and like all st kilda recruits, has had the charisma and confidence knocked out of him. I would rather us play the kids all year, and get experience into them, then go back to playing jones, crouch, Webster for the sake of an extra win or two.

 

[saintbill]

On the flip side we set out to give a 4 quarter effort and gave maybe a quarters worth.

Not capable of 4 qrts. Been crap under Ross for over a year now.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm glad we didn't win that, it would have papered over what was another horrible start.
Hugo obviously has to stay in after that. Bloody awesome debut.
Wilson very good again.
Stocker, Hill, Steele, Roma, Windy, Ross, Snags can all walk tall this week.


So many negatives l won't even bother but we would want to ream the Dogs next week.

 

[Ads734]

Re Butler, Jones, Sincs etc. The reality to me is we have had to play guys who are underdone to fill a team that is not too young. If not we go with far too many young players.

We really need to get on top of the injuries.

Also we hve been absolutely screwed by the AFL fixturing. I don;t care what people say it matters, espescially early in the season.

Too have 2/7 games at home, traveling to adelaide, Geelong and Canberaa is cooked. Multiple 5 day breaks.

 

[moirae42]

A solid presser from the coach again.

He knows exactly where we are at.

Said Hugo helped turn the game.

 

[Cairnsman]

There is no rationale that says we are better without Max King.

That is the point I’m making. I’m not defending how poor he was. I accept it happens and he needs to deliver better.

But the hot takes wanting him at Sandy or wanting him traded because we are apparently better with caminiti are beyond laughable - they are stupid.

His suspension cost us the Essendon game. He was huge in round 1 and 2.

As easy as it is to smash him. Tell me what the side gave him today that made his life easier?

A key forward isn’t the problem. Usually there poor performances are the outcome of other issues.

Yes but it might be time to trial him ad as a Ruckman, he's got that same timid and nervous look permanently on his face like Billings plays with. 75 games in and it's becoming a worry that he's not suited to being the man as our marquee key tall forward. Is he more a Jackson type from Freo.