AFL Industry - Voice Against Gender-Based Violence

[Carn The Berries]

Yeah but what's the connotation? Is the kid quoting the odds based on winning probability, or does he actually want to put his lunch money on it?

Personally I have not put a single bet on in my life, but i'm still curious re odds.

Given the age of kids I'm talking about (<10) I daresay it's neither... And that's the problem, it's preconditioning them to gamble on sport. They are not mature enough (nor are a lot of adults) to understand the probability implications.

But you keep on defending gambling companies... I'm sure they think they are beyond reproach too

 

[zyzzbruh]

No, If that’s what you were trying to say that would be tokenism and it’s absolutely a valid criticism that can be aimed at the afl specifically due to the money they make from gambling companies who can play a factor in domestic violence (something I even mentioned in this thread)

More so the strawman being people linking DV to the AFL being at fault because they have ads on alcohol and gambling which are potential vices that cause people to commit DV.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Given the age of kids I'm talking about (<10) I daresay it's neither... And that's the problem, it's preconditioning them to gamble on sport. They are not mature enough (nor are a lot of adults) to understand the probability implications.

But you keep on defending gambling companies... I'm sure they think they are beyond reproach too

I'm impartial to betting companies, i don't indulge in it so don't care whether they exist or not. I'm just against the arguments that divert self accountability.

Gamble responsibly

 

[GWT6]

Opinions are subjective and everyone is fundamentally correct according to themselves. That includes your own. So the answer to your question is - it doesn't really matter, nor does it mean anything despite your question leaning towards an attempt at being the all knowing moral compass.

Yep - that's what I thought you'd say. Cowardly avoiding the question by attempting to sound intellectual, but coming across as a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Anyone who listens to Tate or Trump is a sad individual.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I'm impartial to betting companies, i don't indulge in it so don't care whether they exist or not. I'm just against the arguments that divert self accountability.

Gamble responsibly

Self accountability and predatory tactics don't exist in their own vacuums... You do realise this?

Ahh yes... The get out clause... They were dragged kicking and screaming to do it and have done the absolute minimum to adhere to the code (which in itself is p155 weak).

I punt and I am able to control myself, but not everyone is so lucky (yes, it is luck). I've seen people battle with addiction to the point of incarceration, there is no way known that gambling agencies can absolve themselves of all responsibility.

 

[Carn The Berries]

More so the strawman being people linking DV to the AFL being at fault because they have ads on alcohol and gambling which are potential vices that cause people to commit DV.

It's a fair link to make when the AFL actively supports organisations who knowingly do harm to people and try, by whatever means necessary, to avoid taking responsibility for it.

 

[Muddiemoose]

More so the strawman being people linking DV to the AFL being at fault because they have ads on alcohol and gambling which are potential vices that cause people to commit DV.

Don’t think anyone has said the AFL are specifically at fault
Pointing out the AFL’s hypocrisy certainly isn’t laying blame at the AFL’s feet

 

[burge13]

Reminds me of the cigarette companies spending tens of millions of dollars fighting against plain packaging rules, with their argument being that the changes were not needed because they would have no impact on the number of people who smoke. Ok - so why fight against it?

My 8 year old nephew quoted the odds to me last week when I asked him who he thought was going to win the Carton game. Neither of his parents gamble.

Gambling advertising is a cancer on the game.

Have a few primary school teacher mates and they say it's rife in the way the kids talk about sports.

Sad really

 

[zyzzbruh]

Yep - that's what I thought you'd say. Cowardly avoiding the question by attempting to sound intellectual, but coming across as a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Anyone who listens to Tate or Trump is a sad individual.

You walked into that one.

Cant stand trump or tate.

 

[GWT6]

You walked into that one.

Cant stand trump or tate.

Sue

 

[Muddiemoose]

Have a few primary school teacher mates and they say it's rife in the way the kids talk about sports.

Sad really

It’s funny being a little bit older and telling myself it was something we never saw in schools back when I went but than I remembered every year we would do a Melbourne cup sweep in our class’s in primary school and even the fact we have public holidays specifically around what is a gambling event

Seems almost silly trying to link it to todays issues but I think it highlights how ingrained gambling is in Australian culture

 

[burge13]

It’s funny being a little bit older and telling myself it was something we never saw in schools back when I went but than I remembered every year we would do a Melbourne cup sweep in our class’s in primary school and even the fact we have public holidays specifically around what is a gambling event

Seems almost silly trying to link it to todays issues but I think it highlights how ingrained gambling is in Australian culture

We did Melb Cup & Dad used to go to the TAB to put bets on

It was absolutely nothing like today though. Not as accessible, not as advertised, not as prominent

 

[zyzzbruh]

It's a fair link to make when the AFL actively supports organisations who knowingly do harm to people and try, by whatever means necessary, to avoid taking responsibility for it.

The responsibility part is the irony of it. If we lay blame on the actual individual making the final decision for themselves, it would be end of story. Do these things you mention supplement the issue? absolutely, but that is a never ending road. AFL is also sponsored by maccas. Maccas knowingly contributes directly to the 3 biggest endemics in the world: heart disease and obesity, and obesity is directly linked to depression and suicidal ideation. For something as innocent as a happy meal. Maccas also sponsored an army which went on to cause the biggest number of civilian casualties in recent times.

These examples are everywhere. Even for the most modest of us who decide to enjoy a night out, even that one night contributes to potential future alcoholism etc. There comes a point where you can't protect people from themselves anymore so at what point does the filtering stop? Morally should alcohol and smoking should be banned full stop? It gets rid of the risk factors completely and everyone would be better for it. Or would there be an outcry because you have taken away peoples autonomy?

I could either have a sook that the afl promoted maccas and now my kid is morbidly obese and has his life span cut short by 20 years. Or i can choose to just avoid maccas and not get sucked into the promotion, and try to educate my kid who would otherwise be persuaded by a toy with his meal... I don't want maccas gone completely tho, I also want it there because i don't mind the odd double filet o fish with large fries and a mcflurry.

 

[Muddiemoose]

We did Melb Cup & Dad used to go to the TAB to put bets on

It was absolutely nothing like today though. Not as accessible, not as advertised, not as prominent

Yeah it’s definitely at another level now, probably due to regulations surrounding traditional advertising methods and gambling companies

They use sport information breaks that talk about players stats to plug odds or the little breaks are sponsored by the company’s and the other massive one is the afl fixture on the afl app having the games odds and by clicking a link it takes you right to sports bets website

With children getting devices at a young age and the AFL app being something that any kid into the sport would probably have how the afl can agree to having this feature is crazy and completely unnecessary

 

[Carn The Berries]

The responsibility part is the irony of it. If we lay blame on the actual individual making the final decision for themselves, it would be end of story. Do these things you mention supplement the issue? absolutely, but that is a never ending road. AFL is also sponsored by maccas. Maccas knowingly contributes directly to the 3 biggest endemics in the world: heart disease and obesity, and obesity is directly linked to depression and suicidal ideation. For something as innocent as a happy meal. Maccas also sponsored an army which went on to cause the biggest number of civilian casualties in recent times.

These examples are everywhere. Even for the most modest of us who decide to enjoy a night out, even that one night contributes to potential future alcoholism etc. There comes a point where you can't protect people from themselves anymore so at what point does the filtering stop? Morally should alcohol and smoking should be banned full stop? It gets rid of the risk factors completely and everyone would be better for it. Or would there be an outcry because you have taken away peoples autonomy?

I could either have a sook that the afl promoted maccas and now my kid is morbidly obese and has his life span cut short by 20 years. Or i can choose to just avoid maccas and not get sucked into the promotion, and try to educate my kid who would otherwise be persuaded by a toy with his meal...

So you're morally ok with sports betting agencies flooding TV/Print/Radio/Social Media with ads promoting the "fun" of gambling and exposing children to it. Not only do those children lack the maturity, knowledge, understanding to know the inherent risks of gambling, but in a lost of instances also lack responsible adult role models to explain these concepts?

The fact you bring up McDonald's is actually quite ironic... There are stronger restrictions on when Maccas can advertise (there is a black out period when kids programming is on) than there are on gambling agencies?

 

[Carn The Berries]

We did Melb Cup & Dad used to go to the TAB to put bets on

It was absolutely nothing like today though. Not as accessible, not as advertised, not as prominent

^^^^

Absolutely this... You'd occasionally hear the jingle "you get a run for your money at the TAB" but unless you had an adult influence who already gambled, you'd have no idea what this actually meant.

Now we have TV "shows" that are just talking about odds... I've even seen it as part of Fox Sports News FFS!

 

[zyzzbruh]

So you're morally ok with sports betting agencies flooding TV/Print/Radio/Social Media with ads promoting the "fun" of gambling and exposing children to it. Not only do those children lack the maturity, knowledge, understanding to know the inherent risks of gambling, but in a lost of instances also lack responsible adult role models to explain these concepts?

The fact you bring up McDonald's is actually quite ironic... There are stronger restrictions on when Maccas can advertise (there is a black out period when kids programming is on) than there are on gambling agencies?

Maybe we need better role models, if not at home then programs at schools etc. That way their decisions going into adulthood would be more informed. It would actually make for a more positive society of well educated, accountable people rather than uneducated people who are just shielded from reality.

I would say an uneducated person who discovers betting after being shielded from it for so long, is more at risk than the latter.

 

[HairyO]

In this litigious day and age, if has done none of what he is alleged to have done you can bet your bottom dollar he would have launched an unfair dismissal claim. Yet he hasn't... I wonder why...

My guess is the AFL agreed to let the Roos pay out his contract outside of the cap so he got his money and the Roos arent affected by it. The AFL may have even paid some of it.

Plus, a year later he is allowed to play again with coaches talking about how he has paid his debt and should get a 5th chance.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Maybe we need better role models, if not at home then programs at schools etc. That way their decisions going into adulthood would be more informed. It would actually make for a more positive society of well educated, accountable people rather than uneducated people who are just shielded from reality.

I would say an uneducated person who discovers betting after being shielded from it for so long, is more at risk than the latter.

Don't you think it might be a better use (saving) of resources to make sure kids aren't exposed to it, rather than spending money to try and avoiding it ruining their lives?

You can't have it both ways... It's either self-accountability, or someone's else's responsibility to educate/protect them... You're trying to have a bob each way, it doesn't work like that.

 

[Carn The Berries]

My guess is the AFL agreed to let the Roos pay out his contract outside of the cap so he got his money and the Roos arent affected by it. The AFL may have even paid some of it.

Plus, a year later he is allowed to play again with coaches talking about how he has paid his debt and should get a 5th chance.

What debt does an innocent man have to pay??????

 

[zyzzbruh]

Don't you think it might be a better use (saving) of resources to make sure kids aren't exposed to it, rather than spending money to try and avoiding it ruining their lives?

You can't have it both ways... It's either self-accountability, or someone's else's responsibility to educate/protect them... You're trying to have a bob each way, it doesn't work like that.

Shielding it is the worst thing you can do. For example that's why you get kids growing up into uneducated adults who don't think twice about something as simple as throwing away food, or half eating a steak. Back in the day when it was the norm to hunt for what you ate and to see the reality of slaughtering an animal, those people were so appreciative of the resource and life sacrificed that they would not let anything go to waste. These days you get your meat wrapped in a pretty little package and that's all you see of it, and the consequences= wastage.

That's what shielding and censorship does to society.

A child needs to be taught accountability by a good role model first and foremost, you're not just born with it. It's not a child's fault if they don't have one, it's literally the best thing you can do, and it's probably the only thing you need to do. It would 100% be the most effective use of resource and education to avoid all the issues we're speaking of.

I'd rather my kid be a gambling addict who knew exactly what he was walking into, rather than one who fell into it unwittingly where he could've otherwise made a more informed decision.

 

[HairyO]

What debt does an innocent man have to pay??????

Whatever the AFL decides given they are the arbiter of moral rights and wrongs.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

If he has not been found guilty by a court then he is innocent.

One day that concept may protect you too.

DV is different in that regard imo, it often boils down to a “he said/she said” which is always going to favour the accused in a criminal case. Multiple complaints have been laid against TT, it would be against the balance of probability that he isn’t guilty of at least one.

Also, broadly, it is incredibly naive to assume innocence because someone was never criminally convicted. If you have money, especially in cases like DV, you’ll likely get off/settle out of court.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Yeah... Nah... The AFL do plenty wrong... But the amount of time and resources they have put into creating brand new pathways for girls and women to play football is incredible. AFL and AFLW are not apples and apples.

Do women have the same opportunities as men in football? Yeah nah.

The reason for that is the same reason women's football was ignored by the AFL for 120 years. They don't want to anger their easily angered wife-beating base.

 

[HairyO]

DV is different in that regard imo, it often boils down to a “he said/she said” which is always going to favour the accused in a criminal case. Multiple complaints have been laid against TT, it would be against the balance of probability that he isn’t guilty of at least one.

Also, broadly, it is incredibly naive to assume innocence because someone was never criminally convicted. If you have money, especially in cases like DV, you’ll likely get off/settle out of court.

So we let social media or the AFL decide someone's innocence or guilt? I know first hand how guilty people can be found not guilty, but we need safeguards to protect the innocent from being railroaded.