Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVII

[Stamos]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-hq/afl-trade-2024-live-updates-and-news-from-deadline-day-of-the-afl-trade-period/live-coverage/adedfbc3c8977fdb0196145abda326cb#/entry/28407078

Jon RalphBLUES, SAINTS HIT STALEMATE OVER KEMP ASKING PRICE

Further:

So the clubs are at a stalemate given the Blues are not interested at all in future picks and St Kilda seems unwilling to give up a quality 2024 selection.
Even accepting the No.32 draft pick would be problematic for the Blues because there is a chance a club bids on father-son candidate Ben Silvagni before Carlton has a chance to take a player in that part of the draft.

Obviously means Camporeale not Silvagni

 

[CJMB]

Further:



Obviously means Camporeale not Silvagni

Re: Ben Silvagni… maybe some ChatGPT assistance on the article haha

 

[FlowersByIrene]

We would guide a young talented player through our fs academy and then not pick him around his expected range?

Not great messaging.

That's not his expected range. He's expected 50+ or into the Rookie Draft. Ben Campo is expected in the 30-40 range.

If SOS wanted to try and draft Lucas 30+ positions ahead of his expected range, we'd need to tell Lucas - Saints must value you very highly, we can't match.

 

[charred_fate]

The issue with trading Kemp for a late 2nd round pick is not just that he is a young, developing talented former 1st R pick under contract. The main reason is he is a required player who can cover in both the forward and backline in either the key or third tall roles. He will play 15+ games this year even if he is not picked R1 as there are always injuries and we have no KP depth. Totally different proposition to Kennedy whose leaving will open more opportunities for young talent - Kemp is the young talent!

This is still making the mistake of separating the return on Kemp trade from the return on Kemp/Kennedy package.

The return on the package could open the door for a higher quality player in another position of need - eg, Hannaford or Dattoli as a small forward, Oliver or Bice as running half-backs with elite kicking etc.

 

[Keyza]

I’m not in love with Kemp, he makes massive errors and as good as he can be at times he is equally poor.

I also don’t see a bid for B campo coming before 35-40 so 32 is a pick we’d most likely get to use.

However Kemp is contracted, and more than happy to stay, so I’d be a little disappointed with 32. Wouldn’t be a howler but it feels a touch less than we could get

I wouldn't rule out SOS bidding for him just to spite us.

 

[mrkyuss]

lol imagine trying to do a deal with sos final day and extracting value . Dodo 2.0

 

[DangerousD]

The salary cap should be a challenge given our list profile.

The salary cap of a club who has won nothing and has managed 2 finals series in the last 13 years, shouldn’t be a challenge.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

That's not his expected range. He's expected 50+ or into the Rookie Draft. Ben Campo is expected in the 30-40 range.

If SOS wanted to try and draft Lucas 30+ positions ahead of his expected range, we'd need to tell Lucas - Saints must value you very highly, we can't match.

Yes I've covered the mix up.

Not sure why anyone raised a bid on Lucas at 32.

 

[Coops93]

Unless you’re a Walsh/Daicos type, it’s rare for a player to dominate from season 1.

I agree with the post overall but just on this point:

It's becoming more common. The kids coming in now are 10x more professional and physically developed than the kids taken 20 yrs ago, especially the top 5. Some kids come out now looking like they have their man bodies already - Rowell was an elite inside mid from game 1 and was leading the Brownlow after his first 3 weeks - insane. Horne-Francis and Reid both were breaking tackles at an elite rate very early, something 18 yr olds have never done before at AFL level. Daicos and Walsh were both elite AFL runners at 17 yrs old. Ashcroft has the talent and big moment/game ability I haven't seen in an 18/19 yr old before, and apparently his brother is better. Rozee had over 50 scoring shots in his first year and was dynamic with his speed inside 50 and on the HFF.

The dynamic of the kids coming in, at least at the pointy end (where we're drafting), has changed considerably. Both in their physical stature and their ability to hit the AFL running and impact from week 1 - it's not rare anymore.

If the kid we take at 3 has 50 scoring shots and plays like Rozee did the dynamic of our forwardline changes dramatically. With the talent of Ashcroft the dynamic of our stoppage game changes. Brisbane potentially have 2 flags if he doesn't do his knee.
The skill and running power that Daicos provided off half back transforms our rebounding game
Someone with the inside-out tackle breaking power of Reid/JHF gives us the best and most brutal 1-2 big bodied mid combo in the comp with Cripps & pick 3.
Someone with the skill and composure of Sheezel changes our skill dynamic on the ball.
Watson as a small forward, competitiveness of Wardlaw.

The list goes on.

That's just using players from the past 4 or 5 yrs as an example. It's not a pipe dream to expect instant impact, it's how big an impact the elite picks are making in the modern game, and that's why I'm so excited by us getting pick 3.

*Sorry the post got a bit long winded but the more I went the more examples popped into my head lol.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Really? SOS reckons he's a mid/wing and I have no doubt that's why he is after him

I reckon he'd be decent in that role too, but we don't have a readily identifiable vacancy in that role.

 

[Soapy V]

I don't want to trade Kemp. I see a lot of upside yet

 

[GoBlues!]

Trading Kemp is completly delusional. Banking on playing Jsos in defence after an ACL and not knowing how he'll go yet while giving away a player after 4 good years of development. Ming blowing

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree 1000%. I love Nick Austin's work and I can understand the view on Owies and Kennedy given the limited list spots, similar players etc.

But Doch and JSOS may not hit the ground running, Cerra needs to get over his hamstring issues, has McG had an injury free season...I don't believe giving away a talented, versatile 23 year old is good for the team.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

 

[DangerousD]

Just because you kicked more goals than another player it doesn't mean you are the better player in that position

A player who performs better than someone else is better, until they are not.

When Durdin, Motlop, Fantasia or Fogarty can get on the park consistently like Owies and hit the scoreboard consistently like Owies, then they will be better.

Until then, they’re not.

 

[DEliades]

It’s absolute madness that Austin has let this kemp talk to fester given our lack of KPD depth.

 

[Rambis]

I can't find a spot in my best team and probably second best team for Kemp but I dont like the concept of a 3rd tall forward. I am happy to trade him if it means freeing up SC space to hold onto our guns like TDK.

 

[HarryFlashman]

This is still making the mistake of separating the return on Kemp trade from the return on Kemp/Kennedy package.

The return on the package could open the door for a higher quality player in another position of need - eg, Hannaford or Dattoli as a small forward, Oliver or Bice as running half-backs with elite kicking etc.

What about the mistake of depth?
Not sure if you’ve noticed but Gov pings hammies like it’s an Olympic event & we could not even give Young away.
So who exactly do we have as a tall that’s under 30 that doesn’t have a shocking injury history & can actually play?

 

[Soapy V]

It’s absolute madness that Austin has let this kemp talk to fester given our lack of KPD depth.

Lack of KP depth?

Curnow
McKay
Lemmey
Young
Weitering
O'Keefe
TDK
McGovern
Silvagni
Haynes
DGB or Durdin

and we will still bring in more players yet

 

[Forty3]

I wouldn't rule out SOS bidding for him just to spite us.

If SOS uses one of his first round selection on Ben then he can have him, and SOS will be out of a job again quick smart.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

I agree with the post overall but just on this point:

It's becoming more common. The kids coming in now are 10x more professional and physically developed than the kids taken 20 yrs ago, especially the top 5. Some kids come out now looking like they have their man bodies already - Rowell was an elite inside mid from game 1 and was leading the Brownlow after his first 3 weeks - insane. Horne-Francis and Reid both were breaking tackles at an elite rate very early, something 18 yr olds have never done before at AFL level. Daicos and Walsh were both elite AFL runners at 17 yrs old. Ashcroft has the talent and big moment/game ability I haven't seen in an 18/19 yr old before, and apparently his brother is better. Rozee had over 50 scoring shots in his first year and was dynamic with his speed inside 50 and on the HFF.

The dynamic of the kids coming in, at least at the pointy end (where we're drafting), has changed considerably. Both in their physical stature and their ability to hit the AFL running and impact from week 1 - it's not rare anymore.

If the kid we take at 3 has 50 scoring shots and plays like Rozee did the dynamic of our forwardline changes dramatically. With the talent of Ashcroft the dynamic of our stoppage game changes. Brisbane potentially have 2 flags if he doesn't do his knee.
The skill and running power that Daicos provided off half back transforms our rebounding game
Someone with the inside-out tackle breaking power of Reid/JHF gives us the best and most brutal 1-2 big bodied mid combo in the comp with Cripps & pick 3.
Someone with the skill and composure of Sheezel changes our skill dynamic on the ball.
Watson as a small forward, competitiveness of Wardlaw.

The list goes on.

That's just using players from the past 4 or 5 yrs as an example. It's not a pipe dream to expect instant impact, it's how big an impact the elite picks are making in the modern game, and that's why I'm so excited by us getting pick 3.

*Sorry the post got a bit long winded but the more I went the more examples popped into my head lol.

Yes i agree, but i was referring to the fact that the poster was happy to trade Kemp for pk 32, and he referred to him as a fringe player.

 

[NavySteel]

Further:



Obviously means Camporeale not Silvagni

HUN is making this sound like a negotiation. Literally, it seem SOS says pick 32, and Austin says no. Negotiation over.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

It’s absolute madness that Austin has let this kemp talk to fester given our lack of KPD depth.

Is this just media talk, or has the club actually stated it's position?

 

[carlton_99]

A player who performs better than someone else is better, until they are not.

When Durdin, Motlop, Fantasia or Fogarty can get on the park consistently like Owies and hit the scoreboard consistently like Owies, then they will be better.

Until then, they’re not.

I think Williams in 10 weeks of playing forward showed more as a small forward than Owies. Positional awareness/crumbing ability, pressure, was still able to also take a mark on the lead and also did some good work up the ground.

 

[Forty3]

It’s absolute madness that Austin has let this kemp talk to fester given our lack of KPD depth.

He hasn't let it fester. He's immediately knocked back the offer. Also, knowing SOS, he is probably using Kemp as a smoke screen to put pressure on other trades.
Can't see a way that Saints are actually serious about securing Kemp, at least this year, knowing full well, according to SOS' own rules, if you go after a contracted player, you gotta pay up.

 

[Les Grossman playaaaa]

At what point have we come out a said we want a pick in the 20's for Kemp?

It's media spin from a junk time journalist speculating this.

If you read his post he say "it's understood". That's the same as my resources have told me or someone from within the club etc.

It's media crap that gets spurted out for clicks.