Why is abortion a live issue in Australian politics again?

[ElectricG]

You're complaining about a law that requires two doctors to agre
So you're saying you know better than doctors yeah?

I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Requiring multiple doctors to sign off on a late term abortion is a good thing.

 

[Gralin]

I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Requiring multiple doctors to sign off on a late term abortion is a good thing.

So what's your issue?

 

[ElectricG]

So what's your issue?

People saying that a late term abortion for the wrong reasons would never happen.

 

[Gralin]

People saying that a late term abortion for the wrong reasons would never happen.

The wrong reasons being whatever you don't like

So again given late term abortions require doctors to sign off on the procedure

This seems to be about you thinking you know better

 

[samFFC]

'I would not be able to cope': One of the few women in SA who needed a late-term abortion doesn't agree with changing the laws

Tayla-Jane Jackson had a late-term abortion in 2023 with the agreement of two doctors. She does not want a private member's bill introduced by Liberal MLC Ben Hood to pass parliament.

amp.abc.net.au

Here is a story of one happening due to not knowing about the pregnancy until later in the piece.

Still waiting for some evidence, as above

 

[ElectricG]

Still waiting for some evidence, as above

??? That kid could’ve been born fine.

 

[Gralin]

??? That kid could’ve been born fine.

thats all that matters to you isnt it

wasn't a kid yet either

 

[Cmarsh]

??? That kid could’ve been born fine.

There was nothing stated in the article the the doctors had concern for the viability of the fetus nor the life of the Mother relating to the child being born. It appears to be concern for the mental health of the Mother that drove the Doctors support for the termination. If that was the case, I wonder if other supports, such as additional social work or mental health supports could have been put in place to assist with aiding the child and Mother, rather than the termination option.

 

[ElectricG]

thats all that matters to you isnt it

No but it’s at least part of it.

 

[Gralin]

No but it’s at least part of it.

its the only part you ever talk about

you were making the same arguments in 2022 in the roe v wade thread

late term abortions is your favorite in for pushing back on abortion rights in general

 

[carltonchelsea]

Reading that, In that case the decision of the doctor's to terminate wasn't about the baby's physical viability or the Mother's life being at risk. The decision to terminate was for neither of those reasons.

And……..so what, nothing to do with you or anyone else, bar the mother and medical professionals.
Give ‘em an inch and they’ll have women of any age of their choosing back on the chattel train of forced birth.
This is how it all begins, under the guise of care for a life they don’t care about and followed up by the religious desire to control women because they despise their ability to conceive!

 

[carltonchelsea]

People saying that a late term abortion for the wrong reasons would never happen.

You gave one example, you were asked for evidence, one example is not a data set, it’s an anomaly in this thin veneer argument you’ve raised and you know it!

 

[ElectricG]

its the only part you ever talk about

you were making the same arguments in 2022 in the roe v wade thread

late term abortions is your favorite in for pushing back on abortion rights in general

Well under what circumstances do you think abortion should be disallowed?

 

[faible]

its the only part you ever talk about

you were making the same arguments in 2022 in the roe v wade thread

late term abortions is your favorite in for pushing back on abortion rights in general

It's the point of the wedge / the top of the slippery slope.

It's pretty easy to get support for late term abortions being banned. But it never, ever stops there.

It's 'well if 30 weeks is too late then so it 24!' and we end up with 'life at conception abortion banned no exceptions'.

Unlike the slippery slope fallacy this is simply the reality that's already played out in the US.

 

[Cmarsh]

And……..so what, nothing to do with you or anyone else, bar the mother and medical professionals.
Give ‘em an inch and they’ll have women of any age of their choosing back on the chattel train of forced birth.
This is how it all begins, under the guise of care for a life they don’t care about and followed up by the religious desire to control women because they despise their ability to conceive!

So the only option in that woman's situation was termination? No role for mental health or social work support post-birth of the child?

 

[Gralin]

Well under what circumstances do you think abortion should be disallowed?

I don't think in those terms about abortion because I'm not interested in restricting access to it

We're not in a situation where everyone has equal and free access to it as a service so I'm not interested in quibbling over degrees to give you a platform to spring off of

 

[ElectricG]

I don't think in those terms about abortion because I'm not interested in restricting access to it

We're not in a situation where everyone has equal and free access to it as a service so I'm not interested in quibbling over degrees to give you a platform to spring off of

But hypothetically if you were suddenly put 100% in charge of where the line is drawn. Where would you draw it?

 

[Gralin]

But hypothetically if you were suddenly put 100% in charge of where the line is drawn. Where would you draw it?

Again
I am not interested in restricting access to abortion

 

[RedStarUncle]

IF the general principle is that late term abortions for non-medical reasons should, generally, be avoided (and anyway are extremely uncommon) but that late-term abortion for medical reasons should be allowed...


Then creating laws against late-term abortions, with exceptions, simply isn't the best reasonable solution. Because it creates legal implication and risk for medical professionals in conducting abortions.



Surely... creating a framework by which the abortion needs to be authorised and proceeded with (which to my understanding is what is already in place across Australia) is a much more reasonable practical position than implementing specific illegality around the abortions?

 

[ElectricG]

Again
I am not interested in restricting access to abortion

Your disinterest in the situation aside, the existing laws have been erased and you’re there with a pen. What do you do?

Again I’m not asking you whether you’re interested. I’m asking what you think the rules should be.

Or is this just your roundabout way of saying you support abortions up to birth with zero restrictions?

 

[carltonchelsea]

So the only option in that woman's situation was termination? No role for mental health or social work support post-birth of the child?

Very socialist of you?
This is one example, clearly the healthcare professionals are more adept at making critical decisions than you are?
Have you considered that part of the problem?
I’m sure there are other examples where the mother was convinced to conceive the child.
This is a non starter argument, yours and Electric G’s.
As I previously said, it’s nothing to do with you, so mind your business, they’ll mind theirs, simple really ain’t it?

 

[Cmarsh]

Very socialist of you?
This is one example, clearly the healthcare professionals are more adept at making critical decisions than you are?
Have you considered that part of the problem?
I’m sure there are other examples where the mother was convinced to conceive the child.
This is a non starter argument, yours and Electric G’s.
As I previously said, it’s nothing to do with you, so mind your business, they’ll mind theirs, simple really ain’t it?

It's only doctor's we are talking about. Way too much reliance on them from some posters in this thread that they are always going to make the best decision. It's actually a very Paternalistic attitude to have - "Doctor knows best". However, often medical doctor's are not the best placed professionals to be making decisions pertaining to social supports that may be available to help those in distressing situations. It's relevant in this case as the stressors of the Mother, which apparently drove the Doctor's to support the termination, could have been more thoroughly assessed if she was referred to a professional Social Worker and mental health professional to more adequately address and respond to the Mother's particular social and emotional needs that as per the article were the main driver's that led to the woman considering termination as her only option.

I work in an area where I see medical doctor's refer people in distressing social and mental health situations to other health professionals such as Social Workers whom have better skill for assessing their needs and are better connected and have better knowledge of support services that can alleviate the pressure's on people's lives.

 

[liz]

You gave one example, you were asked for evidence, one example is not a data set, it’s an anomaly in this thin veneer argument you’ve raised and you know it!

This single example isn’t even a data point since none of us has access (or needs access or should have access) to the specific decision making in this instance. As such, we are completely ignorant of the reasons why an abortion was considered appropriate, let alone being able to determine whether it was a “good” or “bad” decision after overlaying our own moral judgement.

 

[liz]

It's only doctor's we are talking about. Way too much reliance on them from some posters in this thread that they are always going to make the best decision. It's actually a very Paternalistic attitude to have - "Doctor knows best". However, often medical doctor's are not the best placed professionals to be making decisions pertaining to social supports that may be available to help those in distressing situations. It's relevant in this case as the stressors of the Mother, which apparently drove the Doctor's to support the termination, could have been more thoroughly assessed if she was referred to a professional Social Worker and mental health professional to more adequately address and respond to the Mother's particular social and emotional needs that as per the article were the main driver's that led to the woman considering termination as her only option.

I work in an area were I see medical doctor's refer people in distressing social and mental health situations to other health professionals such as Social Workers whom have better skill for assessing their needs and are better connected and have better knowledge of support services that can alleviate the pressure's on people's lives.

What makes you think none of that happened?

 

[Cmarsh]

What makes you think none of that happened?

Nothing mentioned in the article. Quite thorough mention of the social and mental health stressors that influenced the decision to terminate. I am also discussing points of consideration for posters in this thread that view termination as the only option for women in similar situations.