Training Pre-Season 2025 - Freo vs Melbourne @ Rushton Park Mandurah - 1510PM Sunday 02/03/2025

[vidwhal]

Fremantle Dockers 2025 Intraclub #2
23-02-2025​

Here ya go peeps. It doesn't look as nice as the first Intraclub as I overblew the brightness and caused the clarity to suffer but it is in 60fps so hopefully that helps.

Cheers.

 

[Joao]

I'm definitely expecting Young to start slow. I think a realistic best case is he hits his straps after the bye.

 

[DragoDelph]

I'm definitely expecting Young to start slow. I think a realistic best case is he hits his straps after the bye.

Actually wouldn't be a bad choice for sub for a few weeks.

 

[s_wd6]

Young has still done a bit of the pre season etc.

Cox had an interrupted pre season and barely made it to Round One. He then did his hammy and was out for 12-odd weeks.

Honestly think these situations aren't all that similar tbh. Hope Young gets some minutes in Sunday or next week though.

Young is worse no? Had stress fracture and missed a lot at the start of pre season, and then missed a lot of the end of pre season with his hammy.

Cox missed the last few weeks of pre season with a stress fracture but otherwise had an uninterrupted pre season.

 

[mike91]

With Young spending more time forward as he builds his base, Bolton and Switta, along with Noddy can expect more midfield minutes. Hopefully Reid gets some midfield minutes too.

Really does suck though, Youngs lack of pre season, as he is easily our most dangerous mid with the highest ceiling. Handy forward though, if we have him delivering inside 50, then it's still very effective.

 

[Dockeroo]

I like your post. Definitely need to be more nuanced when discussing this imo. If Erasmus does go on and in say five years has played 100+ and has placed well in B&Fs either here or elsewhere we should be objective enough to admit Walls drafted a fine AFL-level player, regardless of whether they were taken in the top 10 or outside, or did it for another team. All I'm advocating for is a fairer view of what constitutes a hit or a miss. To put a X on someone like Logue is another way of saying he's a failed AFL player relative to his draft position but the reality is that Logue IS good enough to play AFL footy and do it on a competitive team, whether or not people think he's a player they don't want on their own team. So that should be considered a tick to Walls.

Now the reason I have a tick next to Valente Dockeroo is that I use a different metric to what you measure with. Valente didn't make it because he was too injured, not because he was crap and didn't have the right kind of tools. He was disciplined with bad luck. I mean he could have not made it as an injury free player and admittedly I'm using my eye & logic to come to my conclusion and reaching a bit based on the actual outcome of his career but there was an AFL player of some sort in him imo. Unless an AFL-level player is only a proven A\B grader, which would then show we're on totally different pages and that's ok but not accurate imo.

Probably should clarify - there’s a world of difference between pick 32 and pick 8 or 10.

I’ve got much higher expectations for a player taken in the top 10 than someone later in the second round.
Judging players on games played is misleading when evaluating a draft pick. Pretty much every top 15-20 pick that doesn’t suffer injuries gets at least 50 games to show what they can do before being released, no matter how bad they are. You can build an 8 year career off being a top 10 pick even if you show nothing at AFL level - the Josh Schache effect I call it.

Paddy Dow - pick 3 in 2017, has played 76 AFL games. For me he is one of the biggest bust selections of the last 15 years in the AFL draft. There been a few worse but he’s right up there. He was very close to being a pick 1 if I recall correctly!
He’ll probably reach 100 games though, but was he a good choice at pick 3? Of course not. Seven years of AFL footy shows he should have been pick 33 in that draft, not 3.
Imagine Carlton had gotten it right and taken the next player that was selected at pick 4 - LDU, instead of Dow. Thank god they didn’t!

For me a decent return from a top 10 pick is at least 150 games for your club, a consistent top 7 or 8 placer in a few B&Fs and someone who becomes a really important player in your B22.


Anyway back to the present - I have a feeling Reid is going to turn out to be a great draft choice (someone picked at 17 who should have gone at 7 or 8). Would be a great result for us if that happens.

 

[Taylor]

Young is worse no? Had stress fracture and missed a lot at the start of pre season, and then missed a lot of the end of pre season with his hammy.

Cox missed the last few weeks of pre season with a stress fracture but otherwise had an uninterrupted pre season.

He broke his leg at the end of the previous year too.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Young is worse no? Had stress fracture and missed a lot at the start of pre season, and then missed a lot of the end of pre season with his hammy.

Cox missed the last few weeks of pre season with a stress fracture but otherwise had an uninterrupted pre season.

Didn't Cox have the infected skateboarding injury pre-Xmas as well?

 

[GingerDocker]

Anyone got a handle on which players definitely won't line up this weekend (injury wise)?

 

[Hamann188]

Young has still done a bit of the pre season etc.

Cox had an interrupted pre season and barely made it to Round One. He then did his hammy and was out for 12-odd weeks.

Honestly think these situations aren't all that similar tbh. Hope Young gets some minutes in Sunday or next week though.

Yeah same same mate.

The point about rushing him back or covering for his injury still stands tho.

 

[s_wd6]

Didn't Cox have the infected skateboarding injury pre-Xmas as well?

That was the year before

 

[Piggy Smalls]

That was the year before

So it was. Man, time goes by so quickly.

 

[mattis117]

I’ve got Amiss down as a green tick, what are you talking about?

Playing 100 games is not a great barometer especially with early picks - Darcy Tucker played 100 games for us but he was hardly a needle mover was he.

Henry and Logue were busts for us. I was and probably still am a fan of Logue but the cold hard fact is he could barely make the team when he was here and was in and out of the B22. He was taken at pick 8 but in hindsight is probably not in the top 25 players in that 2016 draft. That particular selection is an in my book. Nobody would select Logue at pick 8 if you could go back in a Time Machine.

Henry - yeah he’ll probably play 100 games. But not for us and we got sweet FA for him in a trade (unlike Cerra) so from our point of view that selection was a .

Do you want me to just put a beside every single draft pick or what? Jeez someone earlier was trying to claim Valente was a and the guy never even played a minute of AFL footy!

I only listed first and second rounders - there have obviously been some great later selections too.

You have to judge higher selections differently in these exercises too though. Using pick 8 or 10 on Logue or Erasmus when many other high quality players were available at those picks is a bigger than using say, pick 32 on Valente when there wasn’t much alternative talent available at that pick that we missed out on.

Young and Serong were great draft selections by Walls at 7 & 8 in 2019 because they were arguably the two best players remaining at those picks, and the 6 years since has provided good evidence that was the case.

Chad Warner is probably the only player taken after them in that draft could be argued was better, and he’s wasn’t on anyone’s radar as a first round pick that night.

By contrast you would probably take a dozen other players ahead of Logue or Erasmus now, in hindsight in their respective drafts.

Overall walls is very good and nobody hits 100% at the draft. Our guy is one of the best in the business but we don’t have to pretend he’s superman that never got a single draft selection wrong either.

Awkward.... You know that a miss is two words right?

 

[Purple Suit]

Probably should clarify - there’s a world of difference between pick 32 and pick 8 or 10.

I’ve got much higher expectations for a player taken in the top 10 than someone later in the second round.
Judging players on games played is misleading when evaluating a draft pick. Pretty much every top 15-20 pick that doesn’t suffer injuries gets at least 50 games to show what they can do before being released, no matter how bad they are. You can build an 8 year career off being a top 10 pick even if you show nothing at AFL level - the Josh Schache effect I call it.

Paddy Dow - pick 3 in 2017, has played 76 AFL games. For me he is one of the biggest bust selections of the last 15 years in the AFL draft. There been a few worse but he’s right up there. He was very close to being a pick 1 if I recall correctly!
He’ll probably reach 100 games though, but was he a good choice at pick 3? Of course not. Seven years of AFL footy shows he should have been pick 33 in that draft, not 3.
Imagine Carlton had gotten it right and taken the next player that was selected at pick 4 - LDU, instead of Dow. Thank god they didn’t!

For me a decent return from a top 10 pick is at least 150 games for your club, a consistent top 7 or 8 placer in a few B&Fs and someone who becomes a really important player in your B22.


Anyway back to the present - I have a feeling Reid is going to turn out to be a great draft choice (someone picked at 17 who should have gone at 7 or 8). Would be a great result for us if that happens.

So by your logic Jackson was a bust for Melbourne even though he was crucial to them winning a flag.

If Harley Reid leaves WC in a year or two then also a bust. They should have picked someone else.

 

[Dockeroo]

So by your logic Jackson was a bust for Melbourne even though he was crucial to them winning a flag.

If Harley Reid leaves WC in a year or two then also a bust. They should have picked someone else.

Reasonable argument that the answer is yes to both those examples.
Melbourne should have picked Serong or Young instead of Jackson, in hindsight. At least he helped them win a flag though.

If Reid leaves next year - it will be a disaster for the eagles.
What use to them will it be watching him become a generational player at another club? They should have traded pick 1 if that happens back in 2023 for one of the ridiculous offers they had on the table then.

 

[Purple Suit]

Reasonable argument that the answer is yes to both those examples.
Melbourne should have picked Serong or Young instead of Jackson, in hindsight. At least he helped them win a flag though.

If Reid leaves next year - it will be a disaster for the eagles.
What use to them will it be watching him become a generational player at another club? They should have traded pick 1 if that happens back in 2023 for one of the ridiculous offers they had on the table then.

That is crazy. Next you’ll be saying Bulldogs should not have traded for Boyd.

Melbourne don’t get the jump on the Bulldogs without Jackson & lose it out of the middle as Young is the replacement. Bulldogs win the GF and Melbourne continue to blow finals and win nothing. Great pick though since you have Young now but still not enough to form a flag team before drugs wreck the club.

Reid leaving will be a disaster but is that the recruiters fault or the coach / admin / clubs fault? You have to pick obvious generational players when they are available and back in your culture.

 

[Dockeroo]

Awkward.... You know that a miss is two words right?

Hone in on a grammar misinterpretation on my part if you want.
But trying to claim that playing 100 games means you are a success as a top 10 pick is still a pretty weak argument when barring injury, almost every top 10 pick is gifted 50 or 60 games regardless of how bad they might be. There are literally dozens of examples in recent years.

Going by your logic you probably think Adrian Dodoro was a genius at the draft too because so many of his first round picks have gone on to play good few years and scraped their way close to 100 games.

That is crazy. Next you’ll be saying Bulldogs should not have traded for Boyd.

Melbourne don’t get the jump on the Bulldogs without Jackson & lose it out of the middle as Young is the replacement. Bulldogs win the GF and Melbourne continue to blow finals and win nothing. Great pick though since you have Young now but still not enough to form a flag team before drugs wreck the club.

Reid leaving will be a disaster but is that the recruiters fault or the coach / admin / clubs fault? You have to pick obvious generational players when they are available and back in your culture.

Pointless argument this as young would not have been playing instead of Jackson in that final, he would have probably played off half back and they would have found a different second ruck - we will never know how that might have played out.

As for Reid - the recruiter has to take some responsibility, it’s part of their job to determine if a player was a potential flight risk. It’s increasingly a factor that comes into the decision of recruiters to pick a player or not. Of course you try back in your culture but sometimes players minds are made up regardless of that.

 

[Paracleet]

That is crazy. Next you’ll be saying Bulldogs should not have traded for Boyd.

Melbourne don’t get the jump on the Bulldogs without Jackson & lose it out of the middle as Young is the replacement. Bulldogs win the GF and Melbourne continue to blow finals and win nothing. Great pick though since you have Young now but still not enough to form a flag team before drugs wreck the club.

Reid leaving will be a disaster but is that the recruiters fault or the coach / admin / clubs fault? You have to pick obvious generational players when they are available and back in your culture.

They shouldn't have traded for Boyd. It was the wrong decision. It doesn't become right retrospectively because he had 1 good game on an important day. They didn't get anywhere near value for pick six and a top line AFL mid. Plus there were flags on him at the time, not in hindsight.

Would they undo the trade if they had the chance?: Hell no, but that's not the same thing.

 

[DeanS]

Young out until after Round 1.

 

[DragoDelph]

Think they should just give young and Fyfe all the time needed.

Tell Ras and Johnson they have 5 weeks to get up to speed. To build into the team.

 

[Taylor]

Murphy Reid too.

 

[Vintage]

So by your logic Jackson was a bust for Melbourne even though he was crucial to them winning a flag.

If Harley Reid leaves WC in a year or two then also a bust. They should have picked someone else.

Doesn’t it kind of depend on what they get for the player in a trade?

By this reasoning Judd leaving the eagles was a bust, but they traded in a pretty handy forward as well as getting picks 3 and 20.

If eagles get a good player plus picks (which they might use in another good player rather than draftee) then perhaps he was the right pick vs alternatives?

 

[Taylor]

That 2014 draft is a bit of a minefield in retrospect:
First round;
McCartin - Retired
Petracca - Give it a year and traded
Brayshaw - Retired
Pickett - Traded/Delisted
DeGoey - still playing for Pies
Marchbank - Traded/Delisted
Ahern - Traded/Delisted
Wright - Traded
Moore - still playing for Pies
Cockatoo - Traded/Delisted
Duggan - still playing for Eagles
Ellis - Traded/Delisted
Weller - Traded
Lever - Traded
Garlett - Traded/Delisted
Durdin - Delisted
Langford - still playing for Essendon
Heeney - still playing for Sydney
Boekhorst - Delisted
Laverde - still playing for Essendon
Goddard - Delisted

6/21

2015 is 10/23 with potential for Oliver to make it 9/23 remaining

 

[Lach72]

Probably should clarify - there’s a world of difference between pick 32 and pick 8 or 10.

I’ve got much higher expectations for a player taken in the top 10 than someone later in the second round.
Judging players on games played is misleading when evaluating a draft pick. Pretty much every top 15-20 pick that doesn’t suffer injuries gets at least 50 games to show what they can do before being released, no matter how bad they are. You can build an 8 year career off being a top 10 pick even if you show nothing at AFL level - the Josh Schache effect I call it.

Paddy Dow - pick 3 in 2017, has played 76 AFL games. For me he is one of the biggest bust selections of the last 15 years in the AFL draft. There been a few worse but he’s right up there. He was very close to being a pick 1 if I recall correctly!
He’ll probably reach 100 games though, but was he a good choice at pick 3? Of course not. Seven years of AFL footy shows he should have been pick 33 in that draft, not 3.
Imagine Carlton had gotten it right and taken the next player that was selected at pick 4 - LDU, instead of Dow. Thank god they didn’t!

For me a decent return from a top 10 pick is at least 150 games for your club, a consistent top 7 or 8 placer in a few B&Fs and someone who becomes a really important player in your B22.


Anyway back to the present - I have a feeling Reid is going to turn out to be a great draft choice (someone picked at 17 who should have gone at 7 or 8). Would be a great result for us if that happens.

Interesting you bring up Dow and Erasmus…

I’m an armchair expert, but had the same criticism of both when I watched their “highlights” packages during their draft year.

Both of them had very poor kicking…lot of balls missing or going to grass…

 

[Joao]

Interesting you bring up Dow and Erasmus…

I’m an armchair expert, but had the same criticism of both when I watched their “highlights” packages during their draft year.

Both of them had very poor kicking…lot of balls missing or going to grass…

Harsh on Ras, he's not Darren Jarmen but he's not Dow bad.

 

[gungho]

Interesting you bring up Dow and Erasmus…

I’m an armchair expert, but had the same criticism of both when I watched their “highlights” packages during their draft year.

Both of them had very poor kicking…lot of balls missing or going to grass…

If you watch Ras closely, he has improved his kicking a lot in the last 3 years. I reckon he is a better kick than Brayshaw, Fyfe, Brodie and Johnson and only behind Serong, Young and Omera in the midfield.
His biggest flaws are definitely speed - in both leg speed and decision making. He can't do much about the leg speed aspect but if he improves the speed of his decision making and awareness I reckon he will get there. (Big if).