Hot Topic Michael Voss - Coaching in 2026. Should he remain beyond that?

[Jatz]

Voss saying Curnow did his job last night....

Wowwee.

Setting high standards clearly.

If his job was to hobble around, getting nowhere near the ball then yes, he did his job.

 

[bourbons]

This group can be competitive.

All lists have holes, all teams have deficiencies.

Voss is a pumpkin.

They can and will be competitive, but it won't be consistent and its not sustainable across the whole season especially against the top teams. Game style too taxing physically, doesn't work against elite kicking teams as we saw last night and they'll have the usual mental drop-offs here and there as we saw in round 1.

Had us finishing 9th before the start of season and I haven't seen anything indicating that's very far out of whack. 2 goals after half time, yet another goal-less quarter in the last, same old same old.

 

[branedotorg]

I firmly believe a proper coach would be able to put a stop to it with our current list.

I'm not sure about this it's persisted through the last three coaches.

Having said that, I think Voss is a dead man walking although this time i don't think the players are trying to ship him, his strategies just don't work.

 

[bourbons]

I wouldn't panic.







YET

I would

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Baby and bathwater.

Anyone who's played sport, especially elite level, knows how much happens above the shoulders. Conviction in the idea that you're going to win is worth 10%, 20% of your effort. What I'm seeing is a team that doesn't have that conviction any more. Whether that's the gameplan or team selection or belief in the coaches and admin, something's not there or it's not clicking much of the time.

Austin is picking kids who can play but we're not seeing them play. He's not the driving force in the idea that this is a premiership list that needs to pick up random pieces, in reality list cloggers, rather than trusting what you have and supplementing it with genuine development. Take Docherty (he's done), Haynes, Young out of last night's team, put in three kids with a bit of drive and mongrel and give them a game plan they believe in and I think that gets us a lot closer to the line.

Nice

 

[bourbons]

Take Docherty (he's done), Haynes, Young out of last night's team, put in three kids with a bit of drive and mongrel and give them a game plan they believe in and I think that gets us a lot closer to the line.

Agree with the principle, but who would those 3 kids coming in be?

I've got 1, Moir.

 

[ajs071]

Time for a new Poll??

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Getting a new coach in won't improve players' skills, reality is we just don't have many great (or even good) kicks on the list.

Well it would.... That's a big part of why coaches exist....

 

[bigm386]

Agree with the principle, but who would those 3 kids coming in be?

I've got 1, Moir.

Matt Carroll if he is fit should play.

Billy Willson probably deserves a go.

Ben Campo is playing VFL this week and was ahead of Lucas pre injury.

I'd be giving will white a go also

 

[CarmenSandiego]

You have very low standards then.

1 ‘outstanding’ season and 2 ‘decent’ seasons. Yay we won participation awards?

You would fit right into the coaching group.

'Scuse me mate, I know you're angry & want blood, but please re-read my post & learn to distinguish the difference between observation & facts with personal opinion.

Nowhere did I state that I was pleased with our results. However, here are some facts.

• Under Voss, we have had 3x respectable seasons.
• This looks to be the first really poor, underwhelming season.

*whilst i understand as carlton fans we have different definitions of 'respectable', we demand premierships, but the industry looks at it far more logically.

Now, can you point me to the last coach who got the sack after one bad year? Can you point me to a coach that got sacked after making a Prelim 2 years prior? Here, I'll make a list for you - after 2012 when we sacked Ratts:

Mark Neeld - 13th, 12th, 17th
Michael Voss - 15th, 13th, 12th
Guy McKenna - 17th, 14th, 12th
Brendan McCartney - 15th, 15th, 14th
Mick Malthouse - 9th, 13th, 18th
Just Leppitsch - 15th, 17th, 17th
Rodney Eade - 16th, 15th, 15th
Alan Richardson - 11th, 16th, 14th
Brendon Bolton - 16th, 18th, 16th
Brad Scott - 15th, 9th, 17th
Ross Lyon - 14th, 13th, 13th
David Teague - 11th, 13th
David Noble - 17th, 18th, 18th
Brett Ratten - 6th, 10th, 10th - funnily enough, St Kilda sacked him due to them thinking they have a better list than what they were showing - now Lyon wants a rebuild.
Adam Simpson - 17th, 18th, 16th

Is Voss' record similar to any of these guys? I don't see it.

I don't think he's the best coach, but barring a huge fallout, player mutiny or revolt or some other scandal, I can't see them sacking him.

 

[bourbons]

Well it would.... That's a big part of why coaches exist....

At junior and lower levels, sure.

Not convinced that's the case in the pros, certainly not the head coach (yeah get a proper skills coach in by all means). Tactician head coach and draft/trade for actual good natural kicks please.

 

[bradfisher14]

I'm not sure about this it's persisted through the last three coaches.

All three were poor choices. Yes, there are bigger cultural issues at the club that precipitated their failure, but they were all bad at their job.

 

[sparkybagger]

I think the question will come down to whether the club hierarchy is content with where we are (and for commercial reasons they very well might be). It's clear to everyone that what we are seeing onfield is the Voss model. There are no more strings to this bow. Incremental improvement is all that can be expected and that would be better execution of what they're already doing. Does this result in winning more games (probably), does is win you a flag (probably not) and how willing are they to make the call in the pursuit of the latter?

The argument to replace Voss and/or Hanson, Lloyd, or maybe Luke Power is a basic desire for change on one or more levels: different tactics, utilisation of personnel, player development, etc. This must be front of mind for someone like Wright. Does he have someone in mind who is gettable? How much unfulfilled potential does the list have? Would someone be able to adapt the system/personnel without wholesale change?

We're at an important inflexion point which is different to the Bolton/Teague scenarios where it was about win/loss ratio.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

My thoughts are above on sacking Voss, I don't think the club will do it. So, my wish list is:

- A senior mentor for Voss - Longmire, Simpson or similar. Senior coaches absolutely HATE this because they think the club doesn't have faith in them or are gearing up to knife them. But Voss won't be in a position to make demands, if he doesn't like it, he can resign.

- Just take the ****ing tactics off him. This was meant to be the deal from the start, I've got no idea what's happened. Coach from the bench, monitor the players mindset & coach the fundamentals, keep him away from strategy & tactics.

- I've got NFI about the assistant situation - apparently Hansen is a gun tactician and senior coach in waiting? Is that all bullshit? Is he being ignored by Voss? I don't know enough, so I can't really comment. But a shake up of assistants is probably required.

- Several list changes, that I'll share in the relevant thread.

 

[WyntersGame_]

Gene Hackman was pretty good coach in Hoosiers and the Replacements. I hear he’s not doing much at the moment. He might also be good at finding the kryptonite for our opponents.

If he comes and coaches I'd be scared as hell to know how the club made that happen....

you know considering he is currently not living....

 

[Blues Clues]

The reality is that we’re going to piss away another season mired in mediocrity and stick with Voss - even though he is clearly not the answer.

**** this club.

Not anywhere near ruthless enough.

 

[Stamos]

Won't be competitive (against the top sides anyway) with or without Voss. Not until we get some better kicks and ideally a few line breakers with genuine speed.

We were literally competitive with a top side last night.

 

[Stamos]

At junior and lower levels, sure.

Not convinced that's the case in the pros, certainly not the head coach (yeah get a proper skills coach in by all means). Tactician head coach and draft/trade for actual good natural kicks please.

The head coach might not do the actual 'skills/fundamentals' training, but they absolutely set the priorities.
McRae has said fundamentals is the No.1 most important thing, and Mitchell said something similar on 360 last week.

If you think that the key to being a good kicking team is just drafting some good kicks and taking it easy then you're a long way off.

 

[Stamos]

All three were poor choices. Yes, there are bigger cultural issues at the club that precipitated their failure, but they were all bad at their job.

I think Bolton was actually decent. The problem was he didn't have enough support after Craig left, and then went completely off the rails after 2018.
Teague was terrible, so between the 2 of them we completely wasted 3 years of development (2019-21).

 

[sparkybagger]

I think Bolton was actually decent. The problem was he didn't have enough support after Craig left, and then went completely off the rails after 2018.
Teague was terrible, so between the 2 of them we completely wasted 3 years of development (2019-21).

Bolts appeared to shoot himself in the foot by wanting too much control for a rookie coach and learnt a tough life lesson about people management. SOS had a had in the deep list cuts here too impacting results. I think the Craig/Bolton model was the right one but ended up being poorly executed and influenced by other factors.

Teague was a ridiculous and rushed appointment for winning a couple of games out of sheer relief of the shackles of Bolton's approach being removed. No one was kicking down the door to steal Teague away and we should have waited and run a measured recruitment process.

 

[bourbons]

We were literally competitive with a top side last night.

I mean... I guess, kinda.

Never thought we'd win at any stage, said to dad at halftime good effort they're going hard, will lose by 3 or 4 goals.

 

[bourbons]

The head coach might not do the actual 'skills/fundamentals' training, but they absolutely set the priorities.
McRae has said fundamentals is the No.1 most important thing, and Mitchell said something similar on 360 last week.

If you think that the key to being a good kicking team is just drafting some good kicks and taking it easy then you're a long way off.

Who said anything about taking it easy?

Sure, train the fundamentals, focus on kicking - does it not stand to reason that you're going to be a better kick if you're starting from a higher base skill-wise before that training?

 

[SurreyBlue]

The person we need to go and get to support Voss is Ratten. Do whatever it takes before it’s too late.
He can rebuild our game plan and rebuild the line coaches mentality. Let Voss play senior coach / mind games.
We need to get our game plan up and running … literally….

 

[Blue_Fusion]

'Scuse me mate, I know you're angry & want blood, but please re-read my post & learn to distinguish the difference between observation & facts with personal opinion.

Nowhere did I state that I was pleased with our results. However, here are some facts.

• Under Voss, we have had 3x respectable seasons.
• This looks to be the first really poor, underwhelming season.

*whilst i understand as carlton fans we have different definitions of 'respectable', we demand premierships, but the industry looks at it far more logically.

Now, can you point me to the last coach who got the sack after one bad year? Can you point me to a coach that got sacked after making a Prelim 2 years prior? Here, I'll make a list for you - after 2012 when we sacked Ratts:

Mark Neeld - 13th, 12th, 17th
Michael Voss - 15th, 13th, 12th
Guy McKenna - 17th, 14th, 12th
Brendan McCartney - 15th, 15th, 14th
Mick Malthouse - 9th, 13th, 18th
Just Leppitsch - 15th, 17th, 17th
Rodney Eade - 16th, 15th, 15th
Alan Richardson - 11th, 16th, 14th
Brendon Bolton - 16th, 18th, 16th
Brad Scott - 15th, 9th, 17th
Ross Lyon - 14th, 13th, 13th
David Teague - 11th, 13th
David Noble - 17th, 18th, 18th
Brett Ratten - 6th, 10th, 10th - funnily enough, St Kilda sacked him due to them thinking they have a better list than what they were showing - now Lyon wants a rebuild.
Adam Simpson - 17th, 18th, 16th

Is Voss' record similar to any of these guys? I don't see it.

I don't think he's the best coach, but barring a huge fallout, player mutiny or revolt or some other scandal, I can't see them sacking him.

Voss did inherit this list when the top end talent was entering/in their peak though...

 

[Beyond Blue]

It’s system though.
We don’t do the fundamentals well as a team. And that’s not a ‘the players aren’t good enough’ problem, it’s a ‘we’re not drilled well enough’ problem.

We were right in it tonight. Nothing went our way, we had the same number of scores, hit the post 3 times.
But we make it harder on ourselves than it is for other teams.

I agree with you it’s the fundamentals but I think it’s the players failure to execute basic fundementals rather than not having them drilled into them by the coaches. Any system would look overworked and tired when we make the mistakes we do.

A few plays that IMO sum this core group of players up to a tee happened last night.
- SOS dropping a chest mark which would have resulted in a set shot 40 metres out directly in front, instead has to find it on the ground and snap hurriedly on his wrong foot almost miraculously kicking the goal only for it to be touched on the line
- Weitering and TDK trying to take a pack mark inside D50 instead of spoiling the Hawks forward resulting a set shot goal for the Hawks
- Docherty dropping a sitter that would have been a set shot for goal before 3 quarter time

If those 3 basic errors were avoided we have a live game. Couple this with the number of game we have lost over the years due to poor goal kicking by primarily Harry and Charlie and for me these errors are a hallmark of this group. We may have to accept the players are not capable of executing.