Autopsy 2025 AFL Round 6: A Dog day afternoon

[austinnn]

Tanking creates culture like Melbourne?
Let’s just check those flag date stats again Vs Saints ???
Geezus Saintsational might be bad but leave it there …

So they won a premiership a few years ago, that means their culture is great eh? Nice and simple in your world, but I don't want to support a club that thinks deliberately losing enough games in a season is justifiable because your draft picks are slightly better. Play to win, always.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

welcome to the club

The first rule of Champ Club is that you do not talk about Champ Club.

 

[True Believer]

The bloke asked him to select and name players for next week after a 70 point thumping
Pretty dumb journo but lots of them
Lyon was honest - we were mauled
Was telling when he said he would’ve liked a leader on field to take accountability for Bont ….think that’s right
Zero on field leaders last night

This. This is the crux of the issue from the Dogs game.

Losses will happen, that's footy. The nature of that loss is concerning. We were mauled because we completely dropped our bundle, and that's down to leadership on-field, and we are sadly lacking in that regard. Wilke gets frustrated at times in those situations and you can see it, but he still tries to marshall the backline, but there is nothing he can do about what is happening up the field........that's supposed to be Jack's gig..........

Crickets.....

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Conveniently forget they had an extra day's rest and did not have two interstate games in a row.
But facts hey?

We played Brisbane in Gather Round, and Freo at Freo the week before, but yes had a extra days rest.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Exactly.

It's embarrassing.

Thank fully its not a reflection of the majority of saints fans who all think we just got beaten by a better side.

ive gotta say Libba was fantastic and his run down on hill really summed up the night. There's alot to be jealous of as a saint supporter. That grit and hunger to win the ball and chase and tackle was awesome.

Hoping you get some players back from injury. Also I really liked your draft hand Tauru and Travaglia will be 200 game players.

 

[ERMAHGERD]

One thing I did notice with how the doggies set up.
They blocked the corridor and cut off our switch of the ground when at half back. If we did switch we were kicking 30-40m back and starting almost back in goal square. We either had to kick long down the line which is a disadvantage to us as we don't have many talls to compete.
It then forced us to try and get creative and run and handball through the zone, most of the time became a turnover and shot back the other way.
It becomes even harder at this stage as our players become defensive minded and are worried about their player. We then lack overlap run and we lack a dish of handball from a stationary player to one on the move.
Id say against brisbane we see a lot more run coming from the back half.

 

[jwikked]

So they won a premiership a few years ago, that means their culture is great eh? Nice and simple in your world, but I don't want to support a club that thinks deliberately losing enough games in a season is justifiable because your draft picks are slightly better. Play to win, always.

It’s loser mentality, and once that enters a club and its supporter base - it’s all downhill from there.

Melbourne tanking didn’t win them the flag. It did turn them into a total rabble, though.

Wishing for the club to lose is for losers.

The day the club tanks for draft picks, is the day I stop supporting them. It’s pathetic.

And North Melbourne are better off for not tanking to get Harley Reid.

 

[gringo2011]

I hear ya…we were spoilt for a while …
Watching Bont live last night I kept thinking…..we’d kill for a generational midfielder like that at Saints now….and sure we might pluck one at pick 46 …let’s hope … but the drafting of top end talent has gotten better over time and there’s a reason top 5 mids go early it’s usually (not always….Billings says hi) a reasonable bet you get something of quality …at least you get the choice ! anyway can’t see us getting near that choice again soon with Tassie coming and all ngas and f/s etc Dalrymple gonna earn his cash ..

A gun recruiter isn’t going to get everything 100% but after not having anything to show from a decade plus of NDs we are at least not starting a race running backwards.

 

[The Punter]

I mean, the lack of competitiveness has been well ventilated, and we are not the defence we were last season with Battle gone and Howard injured.

But I think the thing that annoyed me the most on Sunday was the passive coaching.

Darcy going down presented an opportunity. Suddenly the Dogs weren't tall forward. You have an opportunity to set the style of play there. We're short forward and Caminiti isn't as needed back as he was when Darcy was on the field. We could have thrown him forward and had them defend us.

Instead by the last quarter the Doggies had Rory Lobb

7

Rory Lobb

Age

32

Ht

207cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.4

4star

MG

174.6

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

228.6

3star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.0

3star

forward. They got the opportunity to forward plan. We just got dictated to in every facet, and that sort of passivity should be absolutely rejected at the club in every possible way.

Finally, there'll be a lot of guff thrown Hill's way, but when he was run down by Libba at least he was trying to open the game up a bit for us. Sinclair eventually decided to thrown his weight around. Steele just takes what is given him.

 

[Joffaboy]

Very feisty in here. .

Yeah let's tank. Lulz

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Questions have to be asked why is there such a huge gap between our wins and losses?

We've had 3 x good wins 2 against quality opposition and the other a stat builder. The 3 x losses have all been floggings. We only lost to GWS by 28 points but generally they dominated the game and we were bullied all over the ground.

It seems when we dont show up with 110% effort we open ourselves up for disastrous results. Its mostly the result of our injury list and inexperienced team, but that doesnt excuse the senior leaders in the team. Lyon and his team of coaches have some serious work to do to close the gap between the wins and floggings.

In our losses the opposition have picked apart our game plan which resulted in a group of players running around like headless chooks. As a result the effort significantly dropped off as the collective didnt know how to hold up the dam wall. Some of it is the result of unavailable of players but for me playing obviously injured players eg Marshall & Steele has occurred far too often under Lyon. It has to affect the psyche of the team when your captain is going at 70% and cant influence contests like he normally has. Marshall has looked a shell of himself the past few weeks he has been flogged by ruckman he normally plays well against.

Injuries and injury management remain our achillies heal....?

 

[Saintbloke]

Questions have to be asked why is there such a huge gap between our wins and losses?

We've had 3 x good wins 2 against quality opposition and the other a stat builder. The 3 x losses have all been floggings. We only lost to GWS by 28 points but generally they dominated the game and we were bullied all over the ground.

It seems when we dont show up with 110% effort we open ourselves up for disastrous results. Its mostly the result of our injury list and inexperienced team, but that doesnt excuse the senior leaders in the team. Lyon and his team of coaches have some serious work to do to close the gap between the wins and floggings.

In our losses the opposition have picked apart our game plan which resulted in a group of players running around like headless chooks. As a result the effort significantly dropped off as the collective didnt know how to hold up the dam wall. Some of it is the result of unavailable of players but for me playing obviously injured players eg Marshall & Steele has occurred far too often under Lyon. It has to affect the psyche of the team when your captain is going at 70% and cant influence contests like he normally has. Marshall has looked a shell of himself the past few weeks he has been flogged by ruckman he normally plays well against.

Injuries and injury management remain our achillies heal....?

I was thinking about our wins, and it looked to me like we played a much more attacking style of game which is probably what Lyon has planned, but in our losses, the defensive game, or the game off the ball, had practically disappeared, especially in the midfield and centre corridor, and our tackling quality has dropped away. There seems to be a structural issue in the losses, almost like Lyon has put all his eggs in the attacking basket after much criticism in his first two years of being too defensive. I think he is a bit confused as a coach right now.

 

[MordySaint]

Tough day at the office.

Still lots of changes to make.

 

[The Punter]

Hawks were all duck or no dinner before they came good, right? Perhaps Lyon has just changed and isn't interested in minimising scope of losses any more if it means slowing down our development. Just a thought. Makes for ordinary watching though.

 

[The Cobra]

Looks like plenty of guns went after our picks anyway. It wasn't ladder position that cost us mids. It was drafting Boxshall might end up another Chad Warner anyway.

Garcia looks well ahead of schedule and an incredible get at that pick. Has played 6 career games.


Hugo from Footywire

● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Clearances Per Game	● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Stoppage Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Tackles Per Game	● Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Centre Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 3rd among rising stars in Clangers Per Game	● Ranked 3rd among rising stars in AFL Fantasy Score Per Game
● Ranked 4th among rising stars in Inside 50s Per Game	● Ranked 5th among rising stars in Contested Possessions Per Game
● Ranked 5th among rising stars in Disposals Per Game	● Ranked 5th among rising stars in Turnovers Per Game
● Ranked 7th among rising stars in Handballs Per Game	● Ranked 8th among rising stars in Supercoach Score Per Game
● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Kicks Per Game	● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Uncontested Possessions Per Game
● Ranked 10th among rising stars in Effective Disposals Per Game	● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Centre Clearances
● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Clearances	● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Contested Possessions
● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Handballs	● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Stoppage Clearances
● Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Tackles	● Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Total Clangers
● Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Total Inside 50s	● Ranked 3rd among rising stars in Total Disposals
● Ranked 3rd among rising stars in Total AFL Fantasy Score	● Ranked 3rd among rising stars in Total Turnovers
● Ranked 4th among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals	● Ranked 5th among rising stars in Total Score Involvements
● Ranked 5th among rising stars in Total Supercoach Score	● Ranked 5th among rising stars in Total Uncontested Possessions
● Ranked 6th among rising stars in Total Kicks	● Ranked 6th among rising stars in Total Metres Gained
● Ranked 7th among rising stars in Total Tackles Inside 50	● Ranked 16th in Total Tackles

Thanks - very informative & encouraging. As long as Hugo is not worn down just got to keep pumping Senior midfield time into this kid. He is a fighter and will only get better.

Any more VFL exposure is an absolute waste of time for him - he will get 30+ every week and dominate.

 

[The Jack]

So they won a premiership a few years ago, that means their culture is great eh? Nice and simple in your world, but I don't want to support a club that thinks deliberately losing enough games in a season is justifiable because your draft picks are slightly better. Play to win, always.

Who's suggested we should have tanked, let alone tanked multiple games? The only thing anyone has said is that it would have been handy if Higgins missed that goal. We we're never trying to tank. No one wanted us to tank. We all wanted to beat Carlton. The undisputable fact is we would have had better draft options if we had lost. And our culture wouldn't have changed one little bit.

It is what it is and hopefully the two T's will be superstars, but it was just typical St Kilda that in a game where it would have been handy to lose, our more talented opposition had half their side out injured.

The culture dribble that gets rolled out on here at times is comical.

 

[gubby88]

Hawks were all duck or no dinner before they came good, right? Perhaps Lyon has just changed and isn't interested in minimising scope of losses any more if it means slowing down our development. Just a thought. Makes for ordinary watching though.

minimise loss = Negative game plan

RoSs LyOn Is RuInInG fOoTbAlL

play attacking = bigger score kicked against

RoSs LyOn Is RuInInG StKiLdA


blokes on a flogging to nowhere....

 

[The Punter]

minimise loss = Negative game plan

RoSs LyOn Is RuInInG fOoTbAlL

play attacking = bigger score kicked against

RoSs LyOn Is RuInInG StKiLdA


blokes on a flogging to nowhere....

I can't fault your logic here, all I said was it was tough to watch.

I mean, we had games like that last year. I think the difference this year is due to unavailability Lyon has persisted in playing a insufficiently tall forward line, and we haven't solved the issue the departure of Battle has created. The second one will get solved soon enough, probably with the return of Howard and then with the introduction of Tauru. The forward line is a choice and one that hasn't worked yet. Heath's performance in the VFL at the weekend might give him an opportunity, although whoever Andrews picks up next week will need to halve contests and get kicked to if Andrews sags off. But it can't be Sharman-Owens-Wood as they simply don't command the respect or have sufficient ability to halve contests down the line. Wood needs to go back to the wing where he makes us dangerous.

 

[BrutThough]

I cant believe the angst over a draft spot 6 games into these kids careers. We dont even know yet what the kids drafted will be as players.

Six rounds into the 2014 season - Luke Dunstan

27

Luke Dunstan

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

9.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

18.2

5star

K

6.0

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

4.2

5star

was on track to becoming an A grade midfielder with a rising star nomination under his belt and Brownlow votes is a loss he was that dominate. Bontempelli had played 1 game.

Guess which one is the generational midfielder?

 

[Kennedy84]

Thanks - very informative & encouraging. As long as Hugo is not worn down just got to keep pumping Senior midfield time into this kid. He is a fighter and will only get better.

Any more VFL exposure is an absolute waste of time for him - he will get 30+ every week and dominate.

I hope he's doing 45 mins each day on his non preferred, he could be something special.

 

[Leap of Faith]

If that floats your boat champ away bud

Yes but does it blow his hair back?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Hoping you get some players back from injury. Also I really liked your draft hand Tauru and Travaglia will be 200 game players.

Very happy for you that Darcy, although still not great, didn’t actually do the ACL. It looked terrible.

 

[Diehard Saint]

A gun recruiter isn’t going to get everything 100% but after not having anything to show from a decade plus of NDs we are at least not starting a race running backwards.

Just not sure I’m going to get a good night’s sleep until Nas is signed and sealed.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Hawks were all duck or no dinner before they came good, right? Perhaps Lyon has just changed and isn't interested in minimising scope of losses any more if it means slowing down our development. Just a thought. Makes for ordinary watching though.

Maybe it’s another season of hopefully short term pain while we blood all the newbies.

Garcia
Hastie
Keeler
Collard
Trav
Tauru
Boxshall
Ari
Hall
LOC

Even Pou and Caminiti in new positions.

That’s a lot of new players, all of whom are showing potential at this stage. Play them.

 

[littlecreatures]

We played Brisbane in Gather Round, and Freo at Freo the week before, but yes had an extra days rest.

I really can’t see what the AFL does more in this space. We (St Kilda) really aren’t alone in terms of tight travel due to gather round, with the majority of clubs in same predicament, and the reality is we now have run of 4 games where we don’t leave Melbourne in a month…

It reaches a point where our boys need to pull up their big boy pants and get the job done with accountability. Being an elite footballer isn’t a perfect world without challenges. It comes with the territory.

We can only canvass so many excuses.