Expansion A third team in Queensland? AFL acknowledges QLD3 as a 20th licence option

[Coolangatta]

There is a new AFL commissioner from the N.T footy scene appointed recently. It may be a wasted spot at the commission table when they should be picking the most talented people they can find. However, no doubt this strengthens the N.T bid, as the person is there as basically an advocate for indigenous footballers from the N.T (something that Tanya Hosch on the executive was doing anyway).

NT is the popular choice. If the AFL can make it happen, it will, it’s a good look for them.

If not, WA3 would be second favourite, followed by Canberra, then Brisbane 2.

No one else has a chance.

 

[Shane Heard]

Cairns Cougers.

CCFC

I can see it now…

 

[Cmarsh]

NT is the popular choice. If the AFL can make it happen, it will, it’s a good look for them.

If not, WA3 would be second favourite, followed by Canberra, then Brisbane 2.

No one else has a chance.

Think of the player retention issues for an NT side. Would be horrific.

 

[Coolangatta]

Think of the player retention issues for an NT side. Would be horrific.

I agree but I honestly think the AFL’s first choice is the NT because it’s the popular choice and it’s tokenism.

I think they want to do it for the PR and maybe some misguided notion they’re the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle in making the game truly national.

Either way, we’ll see whether they can get it done or not. It won’t happen without federal government money.

 

[Cmarsh]

I agree but I honestly think the AFL’s first choice is the NT because it’s the popular choice and it’s tokenism.

I think they want to do it for the PR and maybe some misguided notion they’re the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle in making the game truly national.

Either way, we’ll see whether they can get it done or not. It won’t happen without federal government money.

Surely they are not that dumb. Would bring in no money in addition to perennial problems of attracting and keeping players and coaching staff. It would create alot more problems than its worth.

 

[dees arent rabble]

Have to be the Sunshine Coast.
Huge growth area.

Also has a big AFL following.

Lots of Victorian refugees that escaped dead shit Dan

 

[Canberra Pear]

Surely they are not that dumb. Would bring in no money in addition to perennial problems of attracting and keeping players and coaching staff. It would create alot more problems than its worth.

Agreed. Paying for it is just the first (massive) hurdle.

Retention; playing conditions; and travel all make it a poor choice. An NT team will make West Coast and Freo's travel woes look like a Victorian club.

 

[loco3]

Does the confirmation of a new NRL team in Perth change things in regards to where the AFL will seek

There’s an argument for bringing in wa3 to counter this Perth team, but it might make more strategic sense to do the opposite. Allow the NRL to play their hand, expand to 20 teams by 2032 or so, and overcommit themselves. Then the AFL can come in with a team in a huge growth area like northern Brisbane/Sunshine Coast that poses a massive existential risk to the NRL. They not be in a position to counter for some time.

 

[offtherails9]

Cairns or that area has to be the case. NT would be a disaster honestly, I think we may be moving away a little from that sort of doing things to feel good about ourselves sort of stuff towards the end of the decade.

 

[Canberra Pear]

There’s an argument for bringing in wa3 to counter this Perth team, but it might make more strategic sense to do the opposite. Allow the NRL to play their hand, expand to 20 teams by 2032 or so, and overcommit themselves. Then the AFL can come in with a team in a huge growth area like northern Brisbane/Sunshine Coast that poses a massive existential risk to the NRL. They not be in a position to counter for some time.

A northern Brisbane team isn't really putting the NRL on the backfoot. They've literally just put a team there; they wouldn't need to counter.

I am an advocate for the Sunshine Coast getting a team. But I don't think they'd be ready for a team by the time Team 20 comes in. But the Sunshine Coast is so far down the NRL's priorities that you could wait for Team 21 and it would still beat the NRL to the punch.

Cairns or that area has to be the case. NT would be a disaster honestly, I think we may be moving away a little from that sort of doing things to feel good about ourselves sort of stuff towards the end of the decade.

Cairns won't be much different from the NT. Still too small, and remote, but not as pro-AFL as the NT.

People like to point to the wider northern Queensland having a larger population, but Townsville is four hours away, and Mackay is eight hours away. You might get the occasional road-tripper, but in terms of crowds, Cairns and Townsville are essentially two separate markets.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Does the confirmation of a new NRL team in Perth change things in regards to where the AFL will seek to establish a 20th team?

It shouldn't. The AFL and NRL really should just do their own thing and not bother much about the other.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

NT is the popular choice. If the AFL can make it happen, it will, it’s a good look for them.

If not, WA3 would be second favourite, followed by Canberra, then Brisbane 2.

No one else has a chance.

NT is the sentimental choice, but a financially backwards one. Much like Tasmania in that respect, except even further backwards in the short and medium term.
That said, the AFL is supposed to be a "not for profit" and an NT team is affordable even if requiring massive government guarantees and unequal payments from the league.

 

[GenericUsername202]

Like i said in the other thread, They should make a cairns team and give them the same identity as the North Queensland Cowboys. AFL's fastest growing market is in QLD, and making a Brisbane 2 team would harm the lions, so it would be better go gain more regional supporters in QLD. Likewise, Cairns is almost 50/50 split between NRL and AFL, and there's a huge fanbase up there, as well as a lot of southern expats. There's also a lot of indigenous people living in Cairns, so it would help getting more indigenous players into the league as well. I would also move the Giants to Canberra.

 

[Coolangatta]

NT is the sentimental choice, but a financially backwards one. Much like Tasmania in that respect, except even further backwards in the short and medium term.
That said, the AFL is supposed to be a "not for profit" and an NT team is affordable even if requiring massive government guarantees and unequal payments from the league.

And that’s why I’m not against an NT side. Just because it’s financially backwards, as you rightly say, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.

But not as the 20th club.

Canberra first, so that they aren’t left behind.

There’ll always be cries for an NT side that you just don’t get for a Canberra side.

I don’t think the NT is in any real danger from being excluded from ever having a side the way I fear Canberra would be if the NT comes in before them.

The ACT government would have to beat some loud drums and I just don’t know if that’s going to happen.

 

[GenericUsername202]

NT Makes absolutely 0 sense as its not a growth market. Sunshine coast is a pretty good idea, but it's not regional enough for my liking and it's too close to Brisbane. The 3rd QLD team needs to be a regional team like the Cowboys are for the NRL.

 

[Cmarsh]

Like i said in the other thread, They should make a cairns team and give them the same identity as the North Queensland Cowboys. AFL's fastest growing market is in QLD, and making a Brisbane 2 team would harm the lions, so it would be better go gain more regional supporters in QLD. Likewise, Cairns is almost 50/50 split between NRL and AFL, and there's a huge fanbase up there, as well as a lot of southern expats. There's also a lot of indigenous people living in Cairns, so it would help getting more indigenous players into the league as well. I would also move the Giants to Canberra.

You must have a very loose definition of huge if you think Cairns is a huge AFL fan base. Its sounds as if you are treating Queensland and its growth as homogeneous. The reality is there is pockets of growth in certain areas like SE QLD rather than spread evenly across the entire state.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Like i said in the other thread, They should make a cairns team and give them the same identity as the North Queensland Cowboys. AFL's fastest growing market is in QLD, and making a Brisbane 2 team would harm the lions, so it would be better go gain more regional supporters in QLD. Likewise, Cairns is almost 50/50 split between NRL and AFL, and there's a huge fanbase up there, as well as a lot of southern expats. There's also a lot of indigenous people living in Cairns, so it would help getting more indigenous players into the league as well. I would also move the Giants to Canberra.

People really need to look at the demographics. Cairns is very small. Bigger than Darwin, but barely. Cairns is not big enough to host a team. Even if it were 100% AFL.

Rank	Significant urban area	Estimated resident population
1	Melbourne	5,245,182
2	Sydney	5,143,256
3	Brisbane	2,693,649
4	Perth	2,363,562
5	Adelaide	1,449,366
6	Gold Coast–Tweed Heads	750,997
7	Newcastle–Maitland	534,033
8	Canberra–Queanbeyan	510,641
9	Sunshine Coast	417,982
10	Central Coast	351,237
11	Wollongong	318,258
12	Geelong	308,915
13	Hobart	233,592
14	Townsville	189,356
15	Cairns	163,214
16	Toowoomba	152,087
17	Darwin	138,567

 

[GenericUsername202]

You must have a very loose definition of huge if you think Cairns is a huge AFL fan base. Its somds as if you are treating Queensland and its growth as homogeneous. The reality is there is pockets of growth in certain areas like SE QLD rather than spread evenly across the entire state.

I've spent sometime living in Cairns, and it's very similar to the Gold Coast where it has a really strong AFL presence. There's also a lot of expats living there that boosts it as well, not to mention it would be huge for continuing the growth of the game in QLD. The AFL needs to target regional QLD with their next team, and Sunshine Coast is far too urban for that, so Cairns is the perfect place for the next team.

 

[Coolangatta]

There’s more chance of North Melbourne moving to Canberra than the Giants moving there - in other words, zero.

20th team should be Canberra.

In 30 years, maybe you could look at the Northern Territory and North Queensland as teams 21 and 22, not for profit, but for making the game even more of a national competition.

But I’d still like to see a second Brisbane club and a third WA side in the South West region before that happens.

 

[GenericUsername202]

People really need to look at the demographics. Cairns is very small. Bigger than Darwin, but barely. Cairns is not big enough to host a team. Even if it were 100% AFL.

Rank	Significant urban area	Estimated resident population
1	Melbourne	5,245,182
2	Sydney	5,143,256
3	Brisbane	2,693,649
4	Perth	2,363,562
5	Adelaide	1,449,366
6	Gold Coast–Tweed Heads	750,997
7	Newcastle–Maitland	534,033
8	Canberra–Queanbeyan	510,641
9	Sunshine Coast	417,982
10	Central Coast	351,237
11	Wollongong	318,258
12	Geelong	308,915
13	Hobart	233,592
14	Townsville	189,356
15	Cairns	163,214
16	Toowoomba	152,087
17	Darwin	138,567

The Cowboys are based in townsville (which has a similar population) and have proven to be successful for the league. You don't need a huge population in order to be successful, and having an AFL team in a place with no league team would be the great for the code. Sunshine coast is also far too close to Brisbane, and it would only harm the lions, like the suns did when they came into the comp. You need a proper regional QLD team, and Cairns would be a good shot for the league

 

[Coolangatta]

The Cowboys are based in townsville (which has a similar population) and have proven to be successful for the league. You don't need a huge population in order to be successful, and having an AFL team in a place with no league team would be the great for the code. Sunshine coast is also far too close to Brisbane, and it would only harm the lions, like the suns did when they came into the comp. You need a proper regional QLD team, and Cairns would be a good shot for the league

Hey, I wouldn’t be against it either and the AFL have spoken about North Queensland before.

But again, the Giants moving to Canberra is not happening.

In which case, Canberra > Cairns by a long shot.

 

[GenericUsername202]

Hey, I wouldn’t be against it either and the AFL have spoken about North Queensland before.

But again, the Giants moving to Canberra is not happening.

In which case, Canberra > Cairns by a long shot.

I still believe GWS would work better as a Canberra team, as i think Sydney and Brisbane should have the city to themselves, not to mention GWS seems to have a decent following in Canberra. But for that to happen, the AFL would have to admit to their mistakes, and they would never do that.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The Cowboys are based in townsville (which has a similar population) and have proven to be successful for the league. You don't need a huge population in order to be successful, and having an AFL team in a place with no league team would be the great for the code. Sunshine coast is also far too close to Brisbane, and it would only harm the lions, like the suns did when they came into the comp. You need a proper regional QLD team, and Cairns would be a good shot for the league

Cairns and Townsville are "similar" populations, but there's a few nuances.

• Townsville is about 15% bigger
• An NRL club is cheaper to run than an AFL club
• Townsville is much more pro-NRL than Cairns is pro-AFL

You can't just copy the Cowboys and expect it to work.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I still believe GWS would work better as a Canberra team, as i think Sydney and Brisbane should have the city to themselves, not to mention GWS seems to have a decent following in Canberra. But for that to happen, the AFL would have to admit to their mistakes, and they would never do that.

Depends on your definition, but I would say the Giants do not "have a decent following in Canberra". It's smaller than their Sydney following.

We sell out Manuka because we love AFL, and the Giants are a vessel. We are getting similar crowds now than we were for North, the Dees, and Bulldogs selling games to Canberra before them.

 

[Coolangatta]

I still believe GWS would work better as a Canberra team, as i think Sydney and Brisbane should have the city to themselves, not to mention GWS seems to have a decent following in Canberra. But for that to happen, the AFL would have to admit to their mistakes, and they would never do that.

You could very well be right, but like you said, the AFL is probably not gonna budge there.

Even then, if that did happen, you might as well go NT for team 20 and make the game truly national, keeping in mind it’s not just supposed to be about profit.

But we know it is and we know the AFL doesn’t like admitting its mistakes. That said, having the Giants play 8 of its home games in Sydney instead of 11 was its biggest mistake. Gotta give em a fair bash in Sydney first before conceding failure.