Autopsy Round 14 - Saints vs Bulldogs

[Teflon]

We finished 6th, then finished 10th 2 years in a row and with the same list we finished 6th when Ross came back. Then we cut and embraced a rebuild. It’s a different team.

Waste time mate he doesn’t get it
It’s all “where you finished” as opposed to why
It’s like listening to Damo analysis …

 

[Teflon]

We finished 6th, then finished 10th 2 years in a row and with the same list we finished 6th when Ross came back. Then we cut and embraced a rebuild. It’s a different team.

Waste time mate he doesn’t get it
It’s all “where you finished” as opposed to why
It’s like listening to Damo analysis …

 

[The Punter]

Saturday afternoon my five attendees would have all turned up. As it is a school night and I live in regional Victoria, it was a logistical exercise just to get myself and two others to the game.

Especially if you live outside Melbourne, Thursday nights are a nightmare to get to. Collingwood game last year I got home after 1am thanks to the West Gate Freeway being closed.

 

[botts]

Tell ya what. A couple of good father sons would be nice. We just have no luck with anything.

 

[Nepotism]

The AFL purposefully don't want the Saints to be successful. They want them to just be cannon fodder for progressive teams.

 

[botts]

The AFL purposefully don't want the Saints to be successful. They want them to just be cannon fodder for progressive teams.

Are you trolling us or you legit think that?

 

[phantom13]

100%
Some dead set prima Donna sooks getting around here
Yes I showed yes it was a shit show but the only people you hurt with your “I’m staying home till I get entertained “ attitude is your club which will fold

I’ve got three kids under 4. Me and all of them are members.

I’m not taking them out on a cold Thursday night to watch that shit. Nor am I taking a night away from my family to go out and watch that shit.

We played shit footy and to me the most concerning thing is we seemed to want to play go slow kick mark footy to limit the damage and we still lost by 12 goals.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Especially if you live outside Melbourne, Thursday nights are a nightmare to get to. Collingwood game last year I got home after 1am thanks to the West Gate Freeway being closed.

I got home the same time thanks to roadworks on the Monash.
Even if I caught the train it's still 1130 midnight to get home

 

[Nepotism]

Are you trolling us or you legit think that?

The AFL are giving a lot of interstate teams' handouts, and the bigger Melbourne based clubs crash the system to top up talent without any real impact to their salary cap.

 

[stavro#4]

Most in the media had us in bottom 4 calculations, we just didn’t want to accept it.

It’s evident now it’s where we belong.

Many were calling out Kane Cornes, podcasters were challenging him to come on their show to dispute it. I think he may be right, we’re just not that good.

The club outright said they have cut hard and a good year will be dependent on our personnel hitting the park.

Currently.

Max King 0 games. Dougal Howard 3 games. Alice Tauru 0 games Zaine Cordy 0 games.

Last night the dogs had 3 players over 200cms, we had Marshall.
They had 8 over 190 but under 200 we had 7. They monstered us in the air. (Think I counted right). It’s been the same story since we beat port. Annihilated by the big guys every week.

Mattaes played 4 games all year and the last one he was off in the first 5 minutes. We haven’t really seen him get to go properly onball as he trained. He isn’t the messiah but Christ he helps with decision making and skills around the ground and he is a big guy.

Of those 5 I’ve mentioned, 3 would be best 18 locks. Tauru id have been hoping is pencilled into the 22 by the end of the year. So that’s 4 guys we would need to be dependent on.

3rd youngest list, but specifically the David king comment that we look like kids compared to the general size of the other sides in pre season. That result last night is in no way out of the ordinary lined up against any of the bottom 6 sides. But our guys are pushed under or over the ball too many times.

It’s a timing thing, they need a summer maybe 2.

Talent wise, don’t think anyone thought we would be contending. We sat 3-1 after including rolling the Cats and port in port. We have a lot of talent. TDK doesn’t change this result on his own. But we would look a hell of alot better with him in that side. We need genuine blue chip mid kids in the draft alongside smart recruiting this offseason.

 

[Murraj1966]

It's just a fact that, for whatever reason, St Kilda has done uniquely badly against the Dogs in recent years.

We're their bunnies.

Since the beginning of 2021 - 1 win and 5 losses with 4 losses by 60 or more.

Brisbane and Port are the only opponents we have a worse record against during that period (1-7 and 1-6) but we've been much more competitive in the losses. 4 losses by 21 or less vs Brisbane and 5 losses by 13 or less vs Port.

So Dogs have been easily our toughest opponent over the last 4 years.

Yep and the thing i always come back to with those 3 teams is that they always prioritise midfield development above everything else

The dogs traded hard to get the pick for Sanders and he’s like a 3rd ring option for them whereas he’d be our best midfielder

 

[stavro#4]

Ratten also finished 6th in 2020 and was sacked 2 years later after finishing 10th 2 seasons in a row.

Lyon finished 6th 2 years ago and we are headed for a bottom 4 finish.

I am not suggesting Ratten is better than Lyon, who knows. but we certainly played more entertaining footy under Ratten. My point is Lyon should not escape criticisim.

His record the last 7 seasons of coaching is 58W and 88L. It is an alarming trend, less than 40% win rate over 7 years! Modern footy has changed, not sure Lyon's game plan has.

I was okay with Lyon coming back because it was strongly implied by blokes like Riewoldt our training standards where not acceptable. I at least thought Lyon would be intense about driving standards.

Instead we get cuddly Ross, talking about workplace surveys and giving people days off.

At the end of 2021 when we finished 10th, we were the 2nd oldest list in the comp.

Under Lyon We are currently the 3rd youngest and we will finish bottom 4.

Which current version is inline with its age projection??

 

[saintal]

Have watched local C Grade games on a Sunday that had more intensity than last night's game. Awful.

 

[Ads734]

Is Sharman the long term answer in the forward line. Can do some amazing things, but has too many matches with little influence. In saying that, not the best delivery and Owens struggled last night too. Just a thought.

No our long term answer is on the injury list with a TBC and no one is taking accountability for it.

 

[Murraj1966]

The AFL are giving a lot of interstate teams' handouts, and the bigger Melbourne based clubs crash the system to top up talent without any real impact to their salary cap.

Completely agree and it makes sense strategically

Why would the AFL want St Kilda or North etc to be successful it would be a drain on their bottom line if we played a prelim at 70k vs Collingwood being consistently good at 95k

Their commitment to the expansion market is obviously about building fans in non traditional areas and the best way to do that is to feed those teams talent to make them good

There’s no competitive balance in the league because the AFL has an agenda and our place in that agenda is to be the 18th team on the priority list and provide another matchup to maintain the TV rights

 

[phantom13]

The club outright said they have cut hard and a good year will be dependent on our personnel hitting the park.

Currently.

Max King 0 games. Dougal Howard 3 games. Alice Tauru 0 games Zaine Cordy 0 games.

Last night the dogs had 3 players over 200cms, we had Marshall.
They had 8 over 190 but under 200 we had 7. They monstered us in the air. (Think I counted right). It’s been the same story since we beat port. Annihilated by the big guys every week.

Mattaes played 4 games all year and the last one he was off in the first 5 minutes. We haven’t really seen him get to go properly onball as he trained. He isn’t the messiah but Christ he helps with decision making and skills around the ground and he is a big guy.

Of those 5 I’ve mentioned, 3 would be best 18 locks. Tauru id have been hoping is pencilled into the 22 by the end of the year. So that’s 4 guys we would need to be dependent on.

3rd youngest list, but specifically the David king comment that we look like kids compared to the general size of the other sides in pre season. That result last night is in no way out of the ordinary lined up against any of the bottom 6 sides. But our guys are pushed under or over the ball too many times.

It’s a timing thing, they need a summer maybe 2.

Talent wise, don’t think anyone thought we would be contending. We sat 3-1 after including rolling the Cats and port in port. We have a lot of talent. TDK doesn’t change this result on his own. But we would look a hell of alot better with him in that side. We need genuine blue chip mid kids in the draft alongside smart recruiting this offseason.

Two concerns to me from your post.

Our injury history has become a repetitive cycle. I hear “we’ll be better with King/Pou/whoever” year after year but we keep getting smashed with injuries every year, perhaps it’s luck but relying on that being better when recent history says it’ll be exactly the same isn’t a solution.

In terms of recruitment a decent chunk of attracting and retaining players is being competitive and being a destination players want to come to. Right now we are neither. It’s one thing to lose games, it’s another to lose to the Eagles and get rolled by 12 goals showing zero fight. The latter kills supporters, momentum and spirit.

Seasons gone, we probably need to make a decision here to play the kids and give them some free reign to actually play footy and show something or keep trying with the middling senior guys to be competitive. I know what I’d prefer but **** knows what the club will choose.

 

[PrimalConstruct]

Is it the length of the list or the players who are actually injured ?
Phillipou?, King? Howard ( tallest defender ).

That would imply we need our strongest team all on the park to even be competitive.

Not buying it.

 

[Ads734]

Seriously under 10s type of errors last night… and it’s from our senior guys.

Wilkie and wood , losing their feet….

Missed tackles galore,
Wood, Webster , Sincs , etc etc.

Ball getting out the back. Letting them have too much space.

 

[MordySaint]

Awful, awful, awful

Senior players should hang their heads in shame.

That is all.

 

[Ads734]

Only guys who competed

Windy
Camaniti

 

[dudeintheswamp]

In: Armstrong

Out: Don't Care

 

[PJays]

Our injury history has become a repetitive cycle. I hear “we’ll be better with King/Pou/whoever” year after year but we keep getting smashed with injuries every year, perhaps it’s luck but relying on that being better when recent history says it’ll be exactly the same isn’t a solution.

We shouldn't be blaming injuries.

I don't think St Kilda's had worse injuries than average over the last 4 or 5 years.

Look at Essendon right now. Look at West Coast a couple of years ago. There have been teams who've barely been able to field 23 players plus emergencies.

We've had injuries but that's a part of AFL

Would be nice if King could get on the ground, but Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall, Nas, Higgins have been mostly healthy for years.

 

[aidansbonor]

Average age last night:

Saints : 26.3
WB : 25.6


I don't get the hype of us being the 3rd youngest list and all this potential when the 23 last night was older and more experienced than the dogs 23.


and then you've got our younger players trying to develop in that shit show at sandy.

 

[TassieSaint]

All I hoped was that we'd learn something and do better than last time. That was too much to hope for apparently

 

[Ads734]

Average age last night:

Saints : 26.3
WB : 25.6


I don't get the hype of us being the 3rd youngest list and all this potential when the 23 last night was older and more experienced than the dogs 23.


and then you've got our younger players trying to develop in that shit show at sandy.

Part of the most dissapointing part of last night.

Hill
Wood
Steele
Butler