List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[PandaG]

I hope tdk feels the shame of a west coast loss this week. I’m tipping he does. Then it becomes a battle of the least shame and hopefully he selects us.

Tdk on the record saying he only watches his brother play each week and doesn’t care much for any other games.
He isn’t watching the saints.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Tdk on the record saying he only watches his brother play each week and doesn’t care much for any other games.
He isn’t watching the saints.

Thankfully he didn't watch us play against West Coast.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Tdk on the record saying he only watches his brother play each week and doesn’t care much for any other games.
He isn’t watching the saints.

Same as me

 

[SinCitySainter]

Our list is poor, our development is poor and our coaching is poor.
We brought in Lyon to improve our training standards and by his own admission we are training less than any other team and it shows.
We look slow and weak. We have players that are extremely fit and will run all day but so do all clubs. Apart from NAS, Byrnes and Wilson none of our players have decent acceleration. We are particularly slow at the coal face.
Lyon wants us playing a slow possession game which given our skill deficit is asking for trouble. When we do decide to move the ball quickly our transition is great because we have players moving ahead of the ball. Our skills are just average but it is almost impossible to hit a target ahead of you when noone is moving.
The other serious issue we have is we don't play well when the opposition decides to hunt us. We fold under pressure. Look at our best games. Freo didn't show up. Melbourne who seemed afraid to tackle in case they broke a nail. Geelong who thought they just had to show up to beat us and once they realised that wouldn't work nearly ran us down. Richmond and Port are equally as poor as we are.
We will likely win a few cheap games at the back end of the season as other teams put the cue in the rack. This will probably leave us between 12 to 14 on the ladder and still wallowing in mediocrity. Unfortunately, we appear to be going nowhere fast.

 

[jumperfan]

Watching the Hawthorn game, I don't think we want Hustwaite - looks nowhere near it.

 

[Joffaboy]

Watching the Hawthorn game, I don't think we want Hustwaite - looks nowhere near it.

Bad conditions look at the score. No roofed stadium and every game like this in Tassie

 

[gringo2011]

Also one of the major holes in the list is the 2018, 2019 and 2020 draft

Yep, shit we did 5 to 10 years ago is the foundation for the current list. There isn't enough in the 23 to 26 age brackets which is where you get huge upswings in output. The Dogs have much more of that.

King, Higgins, Henry, Byrnes, Dow, Clark, Sharman, Carrol are our boys in that range and we let guys like Long, Gresham and Battle go from it.

Only three or four likely to make it to the later stages of their careers.

 

[gringo2011]

Watching the Hawthorn game, I don't think we want Hustwaite - looks nowhere near it.

He'd be 19 or 20 and played a couple of games. His VFL form looks excellent. You are basically redrafting a player, not buying the finished article.

 

[jh38]

Our list is poor, our development is poor and our coaching is poor.
We brought in Lyon to improve our training standards and by his own admission we are training less than any other team and it shows.
We look slow and weak. We have players that are extremely fit and will run all day but so do all clubs. Apart from NAS, Byrnes and Wilson none of our players have decent acceleration. We are particularly slow at the coal face.
Lyon wants us playing a slow possession game which given our skill deficit is asking for trouble. When we do decide to move the ball quickly our transition is great because we have players moving ahead of the ball. Our skills are just average but it is almost impossible to hit a target ahead of you when noone is moving.
The other serious issue we have is we don't play well when the opposition decides to hunt us. We fold under pressure. Look at our best games. Freo didn't show up. Melbourne who seemed afraid to tackle in case they broke a nail. Geelong who thought they just had to show up to beat us and once they realised that wouldn't work nearly ran us down. Richmond and Port are equally as poor as we are.
We will likely win a few cheap games at the back end of the season as other teams put the cue in the rack. This will probably leave us between 12 to 14 on the ladder and still wallowing in mediocrity. Unfortunately, we appear to be going nowhere fast.

Plays a slow possession game but has no marking targets to speak of. Sharman absolutely hates the body contact and only really takes mark when he has a straight run at it. Owens gets manhandled and is more mid-sized, and Keeler has played 7 games.

Makes me wonder why we didn't put Cordy on the LTI regardless of whether he was fit or not, and take a punt on a big key forward in the MSD.

 

[akaifu]

He'd be 19 or 20 and played a couple of games. His VFL form looks excellent. You are basically redrafting a player, not buying the finished article.

He’ll be 22 next year. 4th year in the system. Slow and not very damaging. He is not what we need IMO especially if it’s for a second rounder . We already have Boxshall as a similar-ish type

 

[jwint43]

Pretty sure he was exactly the same at under 18 level if my memory is right, has always been a horrible kick

Correct. Was shocked they chose him over Pou. He realistically should learn an entire new kick like it's a new golf swing if he wants to make it.

 

[Veer Right]

Yep. Another reality check.

C graders like Byrnes, Jones, Hall Butler et al are never gonna get us there.

IMO just need to keep building the 25's and under...no more attachments.

I love Halls disposal by foot which is as good as Sinclairs imo. Would very much like to see a directive from Ross to get the team to look for him more often. If he can improve his ball finding ways over the next 2-3 years i could see become an A grader.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Plays a slow possession game but has no marking targets to speak of. Sharman absolutely hates the body contact and only really takes mark when he has a straight run at it. Owens gets manhandled and is more mid-sized, and Keeler has played 7 games.

Makes me wonder why we didn't put Cordy on the LTI regardless of whether he was fit or not, and take a punt on a big key forward in the MSD.

A slow possession game when half the team can't hit a target is wild. Pretty much every goal against the Dogs came from a rare glimpse of quick ball movement, often with Nas or Sinclair actually placing the inside 50 kick to advantage.

Whenever we tried to go slow, we coughed it up.

 

[Saintbloke]

A slow possession game when half the team can't hit a target is wild. Pretty much every goal against the Dogs came from a rare glimpse of quick ball movement, often with Nas or Sinclair actually placing the inside 50 kick to advantage.

Whenever we tried to go slow, we coughed it up.

The slow ball movement, or stop and prop is really killing us as well as the reluctance to trust skills and quickly kick to a teammate in the clear rather than long bombs to a contest. Amongst other things, it's coaching thing- that's why you have coaches, but as Lyon said, there could be a disconnect between the coaches and the players. We don't seem to play any particular style of football, just react to things that get the better of us...no good.

 

[gringo2011]

He’ll be 22 next year. 4th year in the system. Slow and not very damaging. He is not what we need IMO especially if it’s for a second rounder . We already have Boxshall as a similar-ish type

Well his bio isays he's 20.....21 at the end of July. So you are correct that the end of 2026 he will be 22 but I think you are being deliberately misleading. He's a tall mid and would need to be played there. If you want a replacement for Macrae he's an option. So is Erasmus.

You are going to have to pick either up and develop them. You get a player with 4 years in a good system and hopefully get a fast tracked player.

 

[Sully111]

Would it be unfair to ask Nas to sign on for for an extra year for every turnover he caused on the weekend?

 

[Dr Spaceman]

And just like that…

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Plays a slow possession game but has no marking targets to speak of. Sharman absolutely hates the body contact and only really takes mark when he has a straight run at it. Owens gets manhandled and is more mid-sized, and Keeler has played 7 games.

Makes me wonder why we didn't put Cordy on the LTI regardless of whether he was fit or not, and take a punt on a big key forward in the MSD.

Because you aren't allowed to.

 

[Joffaboy]

And just like that…

Wonder why he is up for trade? We should throw billions at him and hope he plays as many games as Hannebery

 

[Joffaboy]

Well his bio isays he's 20.....21 at the end of July. So you are correct that the end of 2026 he will be 22 but I think you are being deliberately misleading. He's a tall mid and would need to be played there. If you want a replacement for Macrae he's an option. So is Erasmus.

You are going to have to pick either up and develop them. You get a player with 4 years in a good system and hopefully get a fast tracked player.

We need to replace both inside mids in Macrae and Steele soon. Clark is also not ever going to be anything but a solid citizen.
Hustwaite would be a future investment.

 

[akaifu]

Well his bio isays he's 20.....21 at the end of July. So you are correct that the end of 2026 he will be 22 but I think you are being deliberately misleading. He's a tall mid and would need to be played there. If you want a replacement for Macrae he's an option. So is Erasmus.

You are going to have to pick either up and develop them. You get a player with 4 years in a good system and hopefully get a fast tracked player.

Deliberately misleading? We get him in November. He’ll be 21 and 5 months. Season starts when he’s 21 and 8 months

Hawks probably demand a second rounder for him? Would much rather invest that in mini Phillipou

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Higgo
Windy
Zones ️
Lancey
Tobes
Max Crae ️
Naz.
Hilly ️
Steelo ️
Michito
Clark ️
Ming
Monty
Stocky
Paddy
Butts ️
Keels
Carrol
Ro.
Doogs ️
Cordy ️
Darcy
Liam
Hastie
Poo.
Tauru
Ari
Barrat
Webby ️
Doddy
Boydie ️
Maso ️
Said
Hugo
Boxhead
Sinkers
Hall
Angus
Heath
Sharmy
Wilks
Loc
Hammer

 

[stfan]

The harsh reality is that we are in full rebuild mode.

That reality is made harsher as while the draft is meant to be the main tool to rebuild with, that our picks are worth less than they should be while crucially many other club's picks are better than they should be. So these two linked factors make it even harder to rebuild.

We know we lack quality in our list. Only three earliest draft picks. Toby 8, Taura 10, Pou 10, King 4, Nasiah 11, and Clark 7 were playing this week.

And of those players only King was low enough to have been with the likely quality players available in that draft year.

Only Nasiah has been a massive outperform where if you redid the draft that he would go much lower than when he was taken.

Of concern too, is that our "bargain basement" picks who have turned into diamonds like Marshall, Sincs and Wilkie seems to have dried up. So we seem to have lost our ability to find quality players through this means. Arguably Sharman since then has been the most fruitful. Though Hall looks like he can be a regular player, but just not at the level of Marshall, Sincs and Wilkie.


So we have no easy path forward.

We need to now just keep churning through young players to find the outperforms as well as smart selections of current players in the AFL who are willing to join us. We are hamstrung in this latter point as "players in the AFL who are willing to join us" does not unfortunately include the type of player that we most need. ie A gun mid like a Reid or a Rowell, who while they may swap teams, will not join St Kilda.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Getting overshadowed by Nas, but I’d also have more comfort if Windhager hurried up and put pen to paper.

I think it’s time we release windhager from the tagging role for a bit let him develop his offensive game has all the attributes to be a quality midfielder

 

[Speck]

Agree

In Pou
Wilson
Henrey
Tauru
Garcia
Trav
Boxshall

All should be playing

In principle I agree, but there has to be some selection integrity with that.

Henry got dropped for poor form/not fit enough yet (admittedly only 1 game but hasn't shown much in the VFL since)
Garcia has played 10 games, dropped for form
Trav has played 8 games, in and out due to form
Wilson dropped for the first time since starting last year due to form
Boxshall played 4 games in and out, aside from first game hasn't done a lot

I don't have an issue with young players going in and out if they're given a decent crack at it first. Wilson, Trav and Garcia all fall in that category this year. They'll come back in.

I agree with the sentiment around Jones, its so frustrating that he plays a good game surrounded by multiple shit games. I almost think we could use him as a permanent sub, giving the kids an opportunity at a full AFL or VFL game.