Autopsy 2025 Round 18: Swans swindle slow Saints

[phantom13]

Bit of mayo on both of these.

Yes, when Ross came in the expectation was to get more out of the list.

That narrative is done now.

They clearly understand that a list turnover was needed and the transition from the Steele & RoMa generation running the team to Nas, Hall, Garcia, Windy etc taking over has almost been completed.

Don't forget that the major reason we thought there was more to come from the list was because the training standard and development programs had slipped well behind what the board were expecting.

As for the Crows;

Plenty had predicted them for this sort of rise 12 months ago. Last season was a disaster for them with plenty calling for Matty Nicks to get sacked.

They managed it well, backed him in, went shopping for a few important pieces and bounced right back up.

Nothing stopping TDK + 1-2 others from doing the same for us.

There’s no mayo on them, they’re both factual.

There is certainly a different lens to the discussion (there always is) but it was clear that 2025 we were supposed to be building, not going backwards.

We’ve clearly set the launch pad but if we’re not competing in finals by 2027 Ross should be under a ****ing ton of pressure

 

[phantom13]

I'd be extending Lyon, he's building this list nicely, he's going to need 2 or 3 more years though. Gotta keep going to the draft and stockpile talent. There is no shortcut but Lyon has to be given the time to build the list.

Jesus Christ… for what? Didn’t we extend him at the start of this year? Maybe wait til we see some actual improvement in the wins column before that.

 

[jwikked]

I'd be extending Lyon, he's building this list nicely, he's going to need 2 or 3 more years though. Gotta keep going to the draft and stockpile talent. There is no shortcut but Lyon has to be given the time to build the list.

I’d like to revisit the contract at the end of next year. We can’t have a bottom 4 finish next year and extending Ross early.

 

[PJays]

Honest competitors that show up is all you need. .

Just on this point about ruckmen.

There was a point in time during the Freo game where I screen-shotted the stats.

Hit outs
Freo 48, St Kilda 19

Clearances
Freo 19, St Kilda 43

 

[PJays]

Ripping game today.

Loved the 4 quarter effort.

Feels like 4 weeks in a row we've played alright, competed well but just haven't quiet had the skills to get the job done.

Based on the last 4 weeks, we might even have a 4 game winning streak coming up.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Swans players under 24yo

Campbell- 23
Gulden- 23 this month
Sheldrick- 22 in 4 months
Roberts- 22 this month

Just 4 under 24yo and no-one under 21.

Saints under 24yo

Henry- 24 next month
Hall- 23
Heath- 23 in 2 months
NWM- 22
Windy- 22
Owens- 22 in 2 months
Caminiti- 22 in 5 months
Garcia- 20
Hastie- 20 in 2 months
Boxshall- 19
Tauru- 19 in 4 months

11 under 24yo, 4 under 21, including an 18yo and two 19yo’s. Plus a 22yo first-gamer.

Swans are an experienced, match-hardened unit, playing for their season, who have played in 2 of the last 3 GF’s, have their mojo back, and have no-one under 21yo in their team.

Would have been a serious effort to have out-ground them today, and we almost did.

 

[BrutThough]

Disappointing because it felt like we were the better side for most of the night. We just didnt have class or the forwards to finish them off.

Windy was fantastic. Best game of his career. His move out of the wing has transformed him as a player.

Steele was great. Hugo showed a lot. Wilkie did Wilkie things. Hall continues to be an amazing pick up.

What has happened to Higgins?

Solid debut from Moose. Most pleasing part was he competed and didnt let his opponent dominate him. Instant upgrade on Keeler by doing those things.

 

[Saint Watto]

Reduce the offer to 1.2 million and he can choose Saints or Blues.

I reckon your on the money there....literally !!!!!!!!

 

[tony74]

I reckon your on the money there....literally !!!!!!!!

Time for a Johnny Walker Watto

 

[stavro#4]

Honestly watching Moose and reading about Dodson (also watching Gawn and Xerri do absolutely **** all to influence their games) I’m more and more convinced TDK is a complete waste.

Must not have seen Grundy destroy our rucks and set up the winning goal today.

 

[phantom13]

Must not have seen Grundy destroy our rucks and set up the winning goal today.

Watched our rucks kick 2 between them and set up one themselves.

You reckon TDK is gonna do much more in the rucking department AND around the ground you’re gonna be a disappointed man next year stav.

 

[Saints TV]

 

[Diehard Saint]

I have tried to convince myself about TDK and I totally understand why the club has gone this route, have discussed it ad nauseam, but things change, Dodson is putting in a body of work at VFL level that is ultra impressive, and Heath showed he can play at AFL level.
Marshall is still rucking well and is playing much better than De Koning.

We need to look at a mid as a salary dump.

Surely we can’t back out now, can we?

 

[phantom13]

Surely we can’t back out now, can we?

We definitely could but I don’t think we would. We’re invested and TDK represents more than JUST TDK now unfortunately.

 

[Saints4ever]

TDK will be fine.

He’s only in a slump because he’s been playing forward and he’s not a forward.

Can’t wait to see him running around dominating next year in the Red White and Black.

 

[Saint Watto]

Time for a Johnny Walker Watto

I've already started tony74.

It was a tough day at the office this arvo.

 

[saintbill]

We get it, you don’t like Ross

It is not about liking him or not liking him. His last 7 years of senior coaching he has a poor record. I think it is reasonable to start asking questions at this point.

It is not that easy to go 2-11 in an even comp, managing to lose to Carlton without a bench and a team that has beaten nobody else on the way.

Even more impressive he could manage to have so many staunch supporters after such a shocking run.

That game should have been one today. We didn't deliver again. Yeah, it's nice the kids are showing signs, but why can't Lyon win games of football anymore? We had that game on toast.

I would say Ross is the 2nd worst performed coach in the comp this season after Voss. It's bloody hard to argue otherwise.

Not hearing a hell of a lot that they have got wrong as a coaching group. From where I am sitting it looks like plenty.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

TDK could still work. Bit iffy on the price but clearly Carlton are killing his game and he’s unable to play his best.
What might be more important is getting a proper ruckman coach and forward coach.

 

[stavro#4]

Watched our rucks kick 2 between them and set up one themselves.

You reckon TDK is gonna do much more in the rucking department AND around the ground you’re gonna be a disappointed man next year stav.

I’ve never said once or promised that he would give more.

But I’ve said we should get more out of Roma.

The money stuff is absolutely irrelevant until we have players worth paying and it hinders us - if it ever does. Caro seems to think we will have $3m in cap space next year and the year after.

Front load it and bring the $$ down.

Trade Marshall for players or picks.

 

[projectv]

Surely we can’t back out now, can we?

Not gonna lie it would be absolutely hilarious if we did. Carlton fans have probably already worked out exactly who they're drafting with the first rounder.

 

[phantom13]

I’d like to revisit the contract at the end of next year. We can’t have a bottom 4 finish next year and extending Ross early.

He’s contracted til the end of 27 isn’t he?

If we’re top 4 next year sure, extend him, I seriously doubt that’ll be the case and short of that there is absolutely no need to extend him until some point in 27.

 

[billings2paddy]

It is not about liking him or not liking him. His last 7 years of senior coaching he has a poor record. I think it is reasonable to start asking questions at this point.

It is not that easy to go 2-11 in an even comp, managing to lose to Carlton without a bench and a team that has beaten nobody else on the way.

Even more impressive he could manage to have so many staunch supporters after such a shocking run.

That game should have been one today. We didn't deliver again. Yeah, it's nice the kids are showing signs, but why can't Lyon win games of football anymore? We had that game on toast.

I would say Ross is the 2nd worst performed coach in the comp this season after Voss. It's bloody hard to argue otherwise.

Not hearing a hell of a lot that they have got wrong as a coaching group. From where I am sitting it looks like plenty.

We get it you don't like ross

 

[phantom13]

I’ve never said once or promised that he would give more.

But I’ve said we should get more out of Roma.

The money stuff is absolutely irrelevant until we have players worth paying and it hinders us - if it ever does. Caro seems to think we will have $3m in cap space next year and the year after.

Front load it and bring the $$ down.

Trade Marshall for players or picks.

Thought it was about Roma and Heath getting spanked in the ruck (which didn’t matter much given their midfield which is a mile better than ours was even in clearances) but now it’s not about TDK being any better.

You wanna spend $1.7 a year for the same production feel free, glad your not a list manager.

I’m not anti TDK, in reality he’s a beacon for other FAs imo and we’re way too deep now to bail, I just think no ruckman is worth more than a million a year and TDK isn’t even the best ruck in the league.

Anyway, we’ve had our two agreements this year and sparring with you is tiresome so carry on with whatever goalposts you wanna move on this discussion alone.

 

[L_W_P]

Just on this point about ruckmen.

There was a point in time during the Freo game where I screen-shotted the stats.

Hit outs
Freo 48, St Kilda 19

Clearances
Freo 19, St Kilda 43

Grant Thomas was ahead of his time.

You want a ruck that is either an elite tap option or an extra midfielder. If you know you're winning 70% of the taps then you set up accordingly. If you know you're losing 80% then you adjust.

If you're working with a 50/50 ruck then it makes it so much harder to get your midfield in a proactive/defense setup.

 

[billings2paddy]

I’ve never said once or promised that he would give more.

But I’ve said we should get more out of Roma.

The money stuff is absolutely irrelevant until we have players worth paying and it hinders us - if it ever does. Caro seems to think we will have $3m in cap space next year and the year after.

Front load it and bring the $$ down.

Trade Marshall for players or picks.

Getting TDK trading marshall is essentially buying another first round pick
Especially when we have Dodson!
Greeves, mini pou and fincher is a very good draft haul