Recommitted Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera - two year extension

[119others]

Trying to project who might be worth what in terms of draft pick(s) value in up to 3 trade periods time is an exercise in absolute futility.

I'm not disputing the fact that they may need to trade a player or two (or three) out in the coming years to get the requisite points to satisfy certain NGA and F/S prospects. At the same time, the only one of note in the next 2 off-seasons they have to prepare for is Doug. If they acquire NWM this off-season, that makes things a bit messy in terms of making up points. However, if Butters should decide to leave in 12 months time, they'll make up the points without any issue at all. Bergman is off contract end of 2027 and given his strong ties to Victoria he's another one who is a current known quantity who would bring in at the very least, a first rounder and change. And there is always the possibility that a Houston type trade presents itself - had that idea been presented 18 months ago the majority of AFL talking heads would have considered it to be a preposterous idea. But it happened. So to try to predict what may or may not happen in 3 trade periods time is just bloody absurd - might be fun for you but that's where the fun ends! And that's before we consider the possibility of any of Port's young players establishing themselves as solid players with currency. We don't know it will happen, we don't know it won't happen either. It's speculation either way, which to me, getting into a debate over, is ridiculous.

There are so many unknowns surrounding the 27 draft and its makeup that it is even pointless speculating on the possibilities. And by the 27 draft there is always the possibility of going into deficit in 28 and/or using future picks in 28 and 29 to get picks in 27. Way too convoluted to know how it's going to play out or even speculate upon.

Ok fair enough and well answered, I accept most of that. I suppose the overriding point though is nobody outside of your top 5 (you just listed Berg and Butters)are likely to be able to help solve the issue based on current EXPOSED form in the AFL. That was my main point. I agree you have 5 good-great assets that you can turn into draft collateral but very little outside of that.

Anyway, probably a little off track and I will move on

Cheers

 

[119others]

Just like how everyone massively lowballed Gold Coast seeking to totally screw them over going into the 2023 draft when they had 4 kids in the first two rounds.

You are confused. Suns were selling premium picks in a strong draft and got massive overs in terms of picks value. Firstly, the draft value index has changed materially this year working against you. Secondly, you don’t have any premium picks (first rounders) in 2026 or 2027 to sell - completely opposite to Suns

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The thing Port fans are ignoring is the imaginary scenarios which they go into massive deficits up untl 2029 they still end up in a scenario were the trade offer to St Kilda for NAS is still laughably short of what it needs to be and so wouldnt be done anyway

A dream trade is 2026 1st, 2027 1st + Berry + Whitlock for NAS which isnt really going to cut it thanks to Tasmanias inclusion into the draft mess. St Kilda are not accepting that horrible offer. Even in that dream scenario the idea they can flick 2028 1st into 2026 for a top 10 pick to then get Cochrane is hilarious at best. Not to mention the further idea that they can then trade 2029 1st rounder to get 2 firsts to get Rodan and Salopek

It aint gonna happen guys...

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The thing Port fans are ignoring is the imaginary scenarios which they go into massive deficits up untl 2029 they still end up in a scenario were the trade offer to St Kilda for NAS is still laughably short of what it needs to be and so wouldnt be done anyway

A dream trade is 2026 1st, 2027 1st + Berry + Whitlock for NAS which isnt really going to cut it thanks to Tasmanias inclusion into the draft mess. St Kilda are not accepting that horrible offer. Even in that dream scenario the idea they can flick 2028 1st into 2026 for a top 10 pick to then get Cochrane is hilarious at best. Not to mention the further idea that they can then trade 2029 1st rounder to get 2 firsts to get Rodan and Salopek

It aint gonna happen guys...

Honest hypothetical question for a neutral.

If Port offer the 2 x F1s and Berry and Whitlock as you have suggested, and Nas manager says Nas is out regardless, do you think St Kilda will do in the end?

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Not an oracle at all. Just a sensible, rational neutral footy fan analysing the situation using logic and deducing likely outcomes.

You avoided the question. Which Power players outside the top 5 are worth a first or second rounder? Or do you agree there is none?

I never even mentioned about trading for a first round pick. You brought the first round into it. I raised that if we need to trade in a couple picks in the 20s, that could be arranged.

It’s 12 months out and a lot can change however (and I’m not suggesting I’m putting their name out there), the likes of Berry, Whitlock, Sinn if they expressed a desire to go home we could easily turn that into some 2nd round picks. We could package a player up with a 3rd rounder to get a decent second, we can move picks from 27 into 26. If we still hold our 2nd, we can package that up and upgrade to a first. There is 100 ways you can manoeuvre to get some second round picks.

Then yeah there is also the unknown of Butters. If he comes out and wants to go at the end of next year, as a RFA that nets us a minimum 2 strong first round picks.

Don’t know why some are getting so caught up on this. If access is secured, we have 12+ months to line up the assets.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Honest hypothetical question for a neutral.

If Port offer the 2 x F1s and Berry and Whitlock as you have suggested, and Nas manager says Nas is out regardless, do you think St Kilda will do in the end?

IMHO they wont because they would want assets now and not in 2027 and 2028s footballing seasons. A 2027 1st is the equivalent of say pick 30 if you ask me. No list manager or coach who is fighting for a job year to year wants a 2027 asset they cant use. Berry and Whitlock are two players St Kilda dont really want or need either. Neither are best 22 players for Saints in 2026 so they are hardly inspiring choices for them.

If you got a coach hanging onto his job why do you think he wants to trade his best player for absolutely nothing that he can and would use come Round 1 2026? Itd be career suicide for everyone

 

[Count_Zero]

We’ve still got another 12 months after this trade period in which we can make further trades for points and draft position in 2026. It’s really not that hard to understand so don’t know why it continues to be raised. We don’t have to have every pick in place this year if we get access to Cochrane for next year. We can make further trades.

Who has value?

 

[stavro#4]

Honest hypothetical question for a neutral.

If Port offer the 2 x F1s and Berry and Whitlock as you have suggested, and Nas manager says Nas is out regardless, do you think St Kilda will do in the end?

My favourite part of hypotheticals is the the point when a supporter base says:

This is all our junk - take it or you get nothing and we still get the player.

At the end of the day, it’s still a lot of junk and it’s still on you to turn said junk into an appetising offer for the saints. There have been NUMEROUS stkilda supporters who have pointed this out. We have even said we won’t get his maximum value, but it won’t be junk.

The reality is that we are likely going to be asking for “Good FRPs” and likely 3 of them.

You only have 2 future firsts and even if you talk us down to 2, it just bumps the value of said firsts required higher.

 

[BrutThough]

People need to also remember a 2027 F1 is the equivalent of a 2nd rounder given the Tassie compo picks that are planned to be in the draft.

So it's not an enticing inclusion offer for a top 5 player in the competition.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

My favourite part of hypotheticals is the the point when a supporter base says:

This is all our junk - take it or you get nothing and we still get the player.

At the end of the day, it’s still a lot of junk and it’s still on you to turn said junk into an appetising offer for the saints. There have been NUMEROUS stkilda supporters who have pointed this out. We have even said we won’t get his maximum value, but it won’t be junk.

The reality is that we are likely going to be asking for “Good FRPs” and likely 3 of them.

You only have 2 future firsts and even if you talk us down to 2, it just bumps the value of said firsts required higher.

Disagree in that you want future assets. Ross Lyon and co need something now too. Its why I think a deal wont exist unless something of high value moves to St Kilda. A bunch of future picks Ross might never use isnt it

 

[stavro#4]

Disagree in that you want future assets. Ross Lyon and co need something now too. Its why I think a deal wont exist unless something of high value moves to St Kilda. A bunch of future picks Ross might never use isnt it

Sorry you misunderstood me.

I was referring to port having futures and us saying the value of firsts we want if you talked us down from 3 to 2 firsts would be higher (in the current draft)

 

[rainwizard39]

Literally everyone has said if a deal isnt feasible he will sign a 2 year extension with St Kilda

Thats probably the outcome here. He signs for 2 years and Port miss out

Nobody knows what he’s doing it doesn’t matter what people here say. Saints fans have also said he’ll re-sign a million times in here.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Nobody knows what he’s doing it doesn’t matter what people here say. Saints fans have also said he’ll re-sign a million times in here.

I mean he isnt coming to the Eagles in the PSD. Lets rule that one out and be serious atleast. If he cant get to Port he is staying at St Kilda and not coming to the Eagles

 

[Crow till I die]

Sorry you misunderstood me.

I was referring to port having futures and us saying the value of firsts we want if you talked us down from 3 to 2 firsts would be higher (in the current draft)

Maybe the best that Port could do is to try and trade a couple of players to other clubs to try and get 2nd rounders that they can bundle up for points with a club needing them in this draft for academy bids. If they could then snaffle a current 1st, they could use that, their 26 1st and 27 1st. If they are having to dice some of their recent quality recruits to get a deal done, then the gamble is that even with NWM, they will have a very good midfield and virtually nothing else and might have a bottom 4-5 year next year.

 

[QPower]

Not sure why Crows fans are so focussed on a potential trade here given he isn’t a Crows player and apparently has no intention off becoming one.

 

[Count_Zero]

Honest hypothetical question for a neutral.

If Port offer the 2 x F1s and Berry and Whitlock as you have suggested, and Nas manager says Nas is out regardless, do you think St Kilda will do in the end?

In that scenario you are assuming Nasiah is stupid, why would he want to sacrifice a year playing in WA or at North/Tigers to get to Port? He could easily stay for two years and then nominate in FA. He likes Ross and has friends at the Saints, he would be foolish to go to the PSD. Because you have to remember, It's Nasiah's decision not Ports, so Port have to satisfy Nasiah as well. I don't think playing games will fly with him.

 

[jackag24]

People need to also remember a 2027 F1 is the equivalent of a 2nd rounder given the Tassie compo picks that are planned to be in the draft.

So it's not an enticing inclusion offer for a top 5 player in the competition.

It just depends where that pick lands.

Tasmania will have picks 1,3,5.. 7,9,11 and 12. And will be expected to trade a number of them

So if you finish last, you'll end up with pick 2

If you finish 15th, you'll end up with pick 6/7.. etc.

Not quite a 2nd rounder..

 

[Chewy316]

Ok fair enough and well answered, I accept most of that. I suppose the overriding point though is nobody outside of your top 5 (you just listed Berg and Butters)are likely to be able to help solve the issue based on current EXPOSED form in the AFL. That was my main point. I agree you have 5 good-great assets that you can turn into draft collateral but very little outside of that.

Anyway, probably a little off track and I will move on

Cheers

I think you could apply that presumption to every single team in the league.

There are always ways to manipulate a team's draft position though. The nature of the league with so many teams and each one having largely different objectives each off-season, in combination with being able to to trade 3 years worth of picks, makes it a far more flexible process than what it has been in years past.

 

[Amacca 23]

Not sure why Crows fans are so focussed on a potential trade here given he isn’t a Crows player and apparently has no intention off becoming one.

From who caro wilson via chris davies ?

 

[Crow till I die]

Not sure why Crows fans are so focussed on a potential trade here given he isn’t a Crows player and apparently has no intention off becoming one.

You don't know that for sure and our club has placed a huge offer to his management, so we are wading in the same pond as Port until he comes out and says the crows are not his choice. But its fun to speculate what your side will have to give up to get him as your wafer thin squad is about to boost its midfield IF he chooses Port at the expense of either the (very weak) front or back half

 

[stavro#4]

Maybe the best that Port could do is to try and trade a couple of players to other clubs to try and get 2nd rounders that they can bundle up for points with a club needing them in this draft for academy bids. If they could then snaffle a current 1st, they could use that, their 26 1st and 27 1st. If they are having to dice some of their recent quality recruits to get a deal done, then the gamble is that even with NWM, they will have a very good midfield and virtually nothing else and might have a bottom 4-5 year next year.

Sure maybe they could trade some players. I’m not a huge fan of Jon Ralph - but his article dissecting the value of ports list yesterday would be accurate to the wider football public. They have a handful of top talents: Butters Rozee Georgiadies Bergman JHF and then not much else.

They have unproven youth who haven’t set tongues wagging to even argue they are worth more then 12 months ago, such as Berry Whitlock.

Sinn is a bust in comparison to NWM taking a pick before him.


That’s before we even get into what the cost is to acquire a top 10 pick in a current draft across recent years.

Recent examples: 2024:
pick 14 cost Carlton - F1+F2
Pick 9 cost Melbourne - 28,40,46,54 + a future first that is currently pick 7
Pick 3 cost Carlton - Pick 12+14 + a player and they had to ensure a decent/good footballer also ended up at west coast
Pick 6 cost the tigers Rioli and they still got an early second back.

Full All-Time List of VFL/AFL Trades - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The cost to acquire GOOD first round picks is far from cheap. It’s been the same the last 3-4 years.

Port don’t have that currency without losing one of their A graders and we keep getting told it isn’t happening.

 

[phantom13]

Disagree in that you want future assets. Ross Lyon and co need something now too. Its why I think a deal wont exist unless something of high value moves to St Kilda. A bunch of future picks Ross might never use isnt it

THis is a bit of a point of conjecture.

TBH if were not getting Butters for losing NAS then i think we may as well blow it up and start a rebuild centered around Windhager and co as the core.

If were gonna challenge in the Ross era we have to keep NAS.

Problem is the picks being proposed are garbage in garbage compromised drafts.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Sure maybe they could trade some players. I’m not a huge fan of Jon Ralph - but his article dissecting the value of ports list yesterday would be accurate to the wider football public. They have a handful of top talents: Butters Rozee Georgiadies Bergman JHF and then not much else.

They have unproven youth who haven’t set tongues wagging to even argue they are worth more then 12 months ago, such as Berry Whitlock.

Sinn is a bust in comparison to NWM taking a pick before him.


That’s before we even get into what the cost is to acquire a top 10 pick in a current draft across recent years.

Recent examples: 2024:
pick 14 cost Carlton - F1+F2
Pick 9 cost Melbourne - 28,40,46,54 + a future first that is currently pick 7
Pick 3 cost Carlton - Pick 12+14 + a player and they had to ensure a decent/good footballer also ended up at west coast
Pick 6 cost the tigers Rioli and they still got an early second back.

Full All-Time List of VFL/AFL Trades - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The cost to acquire GOOD first round picks is far from cheap. It’s been the same the last 3-4 years.

Port don’t have that currency without losing one of their A graders and we keep getting told it isn’t happening.

Just like when JHF requested a trade, all the big footy experts said the only way that trade would get done was by Port giving up Rozee/Butters/MG

 

[Amacca 23]

Sure maybe they could trade some players. I’m not a huge fan of Jon Ralph - but his article dissecting the value of ports list yesterday would be accurate to the wider football public. They have a handful of top talents: Butters Rozee Georgiadies Bergman JHF and then not much else.

They have unproven youth who haven’t set tongues wagging to even argue they are worth more then 12 months ago, such as Berry Whitlock.

Sinn is a bust in comparison to NWM taking a pick before him.


That’s before we even get into what the cost is to acquire a top 10 pick in a current draft across recent years.

Recent examples: 2024:
pick 14 cost Carlton - F1+F2
Pick 9 cost Melbourne - 28,40,46,54 + a future first that is currently pick 7
Pick 3 cost Carlton - Pick 12+14 + a player and they had to ensure a decent/good footballer also ended up at west coast
Pick 6 cost the tigers Rioli and they still got an early second back.

Full All-Time List of VFL/AFL Trades - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The cost to acquire GOOD first round picks is far from cheap. It’s been the same the last 3-4 years.

Port don’t have that currency without losing one of their A graders and we keep getting told it isn’t happening.

They seem to rate their player are better than they are ,also they have very little to no depth

 

[Crow till I die]

Sure maybe they could trade some players. I’m not a huge fan of Jon Ralph - but his article dissecting the value of ports list yesterday would be accurate to the wider football public. They have a handful of top talents: Butters Rozee Georgiadies Bergman JHF and then not much else.

They have unproven youth who haven’t set tongues wagging to even argue they are worth more then 12 months ago, such as Berry Whitlock.

Sinn is a bust in comparison to NWM taking a pick before him.


That’s before we even get into what the cost is to acquire a top 10 pick in a current draft across recent years.

Recent examples: 2024:
pick 14 cost Carlton - F1+F2
Pick 9 cost Melbourne - 28,40,46,54 + a future first that is currently pick 7
Pick 3 cost Carlton - Pick 12+14 + a player and they had to ensure a decent/good footballer also ended up at west coast
Pick 6 cost the tigers Rioli and they still got an early second back.

Full All-Time List of VFL/AFL Trades - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The cost to acquire GOOD first round picks is far from cheap. It’s been the same the last 3-4 years.

Port don’t have that currency without losing one of their A graders and we keep getting told it isn’t happening.

Do GC have another jack Bowes scenario?...that might help

But friend, I'd love it if Port can't get a deal done and he stays with your club (assuming we are out of the frame). Thats the best case scenario OR that port have to lose Butters or Georgiades to make a deal happen.